Judge threatens to suspend Khadr trial

[Praxius]

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/05/08/khadr-judge.html

A U.S. military judge has threatened to suspend the trial of Omar Khadr, saying the government has ignored his instructions to give defence lawyers daily records of the Canadian man's detention.

The judge, U.S. army Col. Peter Brownback, set a deadline of May 22, saying he will suspend proceeding unless the government complies.

"On the 22nd, you all will give them a copy of Binder 2. If you don't have it then at 1700 hours on the 22, we stop," he said at the pretrial hearing, according to Reuters.

The binder contains detalis of interrogations of Khadr, who is facing murder and war crimes charges, at the U.S. military base in Guantanamo, Cuba, as well as reports on his mental health.

Khadr's lawyers say those documents could provide grounds to suppress self-incriminating statements.

The judge criticized the prosecution team for demanding an expedited trial but failing to retrieve the documents from the detention centre, saying he's been "badgered, beaten and bruised" by the prosecutors to set a trial date.

Brownback said he understands the military's worry that the documents might identify prison officials who fear retribution but ordered the government to provide the records either in complete or edited form.

It had been anticipated that the court would move closer to the trial phase Thursday, with Khadr's lawyer having nearly exhausted the legal tactics aimed at delaying the process.

Brownback was expected to dispense with some or all of the legal motions filed by Khadr's lawyer, U.S. Lt.-Cmdr. William Kuebler.......

And the rest of the article we've all heard countless times before.

 

[MikeyDB]

I heard a rumor that the new insignia of the Judge Advocate General's Office is a kangaroo.

 

[dancing-loon]

The binder contains details of interrogations of Khadr, who is facing murder and war crimes charges, at the U.S. military base in Guantanamo, Cuba, as well as reports on his mental health.

Khadr's lawyers say those documents could provide grounds to suppress self-incriminating statements.

Those are vital documents for his defence, are they not? Refusing to provide them is blocking proper defence as well as limiting proper judgement.
The judge is already giving them a way out by suggesting they could "edit" the papers contained in Khadr's file. Now, what kind of judge is that? He is not impartial! He is just pretending to be tough with the prosecution, but is actually telling them how to get away with murder.

Mikey, you said it!!! Kangaroo Court.... for the whole world to watch and shake their heads over. The US is making itself the laughing stock of justice!!!

Poor little Khadr... he probably has hopes one day only to be disappointed the next. And our "holier than thou" government does nothing to help him!! Spineless Canada!!!

:angryfire:

 

[Praxius]

If they edit more then just the names and/or locations of where this was all done, then yeah, you'd be right that it's clearly more of an unfair trial then originally thought.

 

[Colpy]

If they edit more then just the names and/or locations of where this was all done, then yeah, you'd be right that it's clearly more of an unfair trial then originally thought.

The entire trial is a joke.

First of all, the Fifth Amendment of the US Constitution clearly (that's CLEARLY) forbids the use of military trials for any person......UNLESS they were serving in the US military at the time of the offense.

Secondly, it is more than a little..........hypocritical..........of the USA to arrest someone and try them for murder.....when they are fighting in a country the USA has (rightfully) invaded, and are engaged in a fight with US military forces, immediately after being bombed by same.

HUH?

Ever hear of self-defense? And a whole lot of other legitimate reasons.......

These guys are foreign nationals, members of NO recognized military entity of any nation, out of uniform, therefore NOT entitled to any legal protection in Afghanistan. They should have been turned over to Afghan authorities, to dispose of as they pleased. Hopefully, against the nearest wall.

NOW, Khadr should be released, sent home to Canada.......where he could be tried for sedition (or treason), given a good talking to and a timbit (with management's permission), and sent home to his family to plot new jihad while building bombs in the basement. May he meet Allah very soon.

NO sarcasm intended.

 

[MikeyDB]

If he and his family are so enthused with the "cause" why not release him in the ME and let him make up his own mind?

 

[dancing-loon]

If they edit more then just the names and/or locations of where this was all done, then yeah, you'd be right that it's clearly more of an unfair trial then originally thought.

The names should not be edited out! Those guys who interogated and tortured him should be made available to the defence for questioning. Under torture or threat of torture Omar Khadr most likely admitted to anything. So it's worthless and can not hold up in a proper court. But this whole court is set up in disfavor of the defendant. Why do they even go through this circus?

 

[MikeyDB]

Dancing_Loon

So G. Bush and J. McCain can claim that the "war on terrorism" is showing results.......

 

[dancing-loon]

Dancing_Loon

So G. Bush and J. McCain can claim that the "war on terrorism" is showing results.......

Yes, showing how a kid justifies their war on terror!!! The US can't portray itself any more despicable than treating this kid as a war criminal, all the while they, the real criminals, continue their war of choice unhindered!

 

[MikeyDB]

Dancing_Loon

Sure it's the "Seeeee Seeeeeee what that nasty Saddam Hussein MADE ME DO!"

"I was minding my own business pulling the wings off flies and they MADE ME kill a few thousand of them and bomb their nation into the stone-age...."

"I'm surrounded by 'evil-doers' and nasty people who hate me and they MAKE ME DO WHAT I DO".....I am TOTALLY AND COMPLETELY INNOCENT!

"I think I'll take my A-Bombs and go home....".....marches stridently off the game field....

America the land of adolescent impetuousness.

 

[dancing-loon]

o lala... what else is coming to the surface??

U.S. paid bounty for Khadr arrest in Pakistan


A U.S. intelligence agency paid a bounty of $500,000 (U.S.) to Pakistani military officials who arrested a Canadian citizen wanted for links to al-Qaeda, according to a new Federal Court ruling.

Mr. Justice Richard Mosley ordered an Oct. 19, 2004, RCMP memo released yesterday after lawyers for The Globe and Mail fought for its disclosure. The newspaper obtained the document more than a year ago, but chose not to publish it after Crown lawyers warned that the release of the information could illegally reveal a state secret.
U.S. officials – likely from the Central Intelligence Agency – had regarded the bounty as sensitive information passed along to Canada in confidence, prompting officials to fight to keep it secret.
Marked “Top Secret,” the internal Mountie memo was addressed to former RCMP commissioner Giuliano Zaccardelli. Its subject matter was the arrest in Pakistan of Abdullah Khadr, now 28 and jailed in Toronto, the oldest living male member of Canada's infamous Khadr clan.
The suspect is the older brother of Omar Khadr, who was arrested at 15 in Afghanistan and sent to the U.S. military prison at Guantanamo Bay.

You have to read the whole article.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...rnational/home

 

[Unforgiven]

This is how it looks when a Republic becomes an Empire. The center does not hold. Just how far down this path do the American people choose to follow?

 

[MikeyDB]

That's wonderful!

The United States of Pathetically Stupid Morons is willing to pay half a million dollars to bring a Canadian juvenile to "justice" but can't seem to get Bin Laden......

What a ridiculous people.

 

[Praxius]

"The fact that a foreign state paid a bounty for the apprehension of a Canadian citizen abroad and that Canadian officials were aware of it at an early stage is also a matter in which the public would have a legitimate interest," the decision reads.

I know I'm interested.... plus the fact that the bounty was apparently paid after they caught him too, all the while our government did jack-shat.

Government lawyers had argued that a "third-party rule" in intelligence circles keeps vital information flowing among states. Global counterterrorism agencies swap secrets on the understanding that sensitive foreign-generated information should not be publicly produced domestically. To jeopardize the third-party rule is often seen as tantamount to risking the entire flow of information.

Well whoppty-frickity-doo-for-you!! Since when has the government suddenly stopped working for us and working for itself and their little buddies in similar positions in other countries?

The answer: They were never supposed to, therefore they don't... if they do, then they now risk their asses in my view and should have their heads rolling... literally. They work for us, therefore that information is ours, not their's.... they gather the information, and they use it to inform us, the public of the dangers we may face as a country, not to hide that information from us and try and work behind our backs to what they suspect we want, or what they want and feed it to us... plain and friggin simple.

The governments have had their asses in the comfy seats without risk to their lives for far too long. Serious consequences should be met when our leaders make mistakes and this, among many others are one of them that should merit some leaders being put on public trial and hung.... or have their damn heads chopped off like they used to do in France.

No more of this BS for politicians where they screw up and only face losing their jobs (But getting a nice rich package to keep them well off when they're booted at our expenses for their mistakes) ~ You screw up royally or go against the trust of the public, then you face death.... straighten those bastards right out, it would.

Peter Jacobsen, the lawyer who acted for The Globe and Mail, called the ruling a victory for transparency. "It was a crack in the system that allowed The Globe to know this information even existed," he said. "... One wonders how much other information is out there being unjustifiably kept from the public in the name of risk to national security or international relations."

A Sh*tload!

Mr. Khadr's lawyer, Nathan Whitling, said the memo is crucial. "The secret payment of this bounty is another illustration of the U.S.'s notorious practice of 'outsourcing torture,' " he said in an e-mail.

Yup.

"Rather than getting its own hands dirty, the U.S. simply paid the Musharraf regime $500,000 to arrest Mr. Khadr, knowing full well what Pakistan would do to him."

That sounds about par....

When asked which U.S. intelligence agency paid the bounty, another one of Mr. Khadr's lawyers said it was obvious. "The CIA," said Dennis Edney. Asked if he had any doubt about that, he said, "none at all."

Mr. Edney added that records show that the CIA questioned Mr. Khadr for 17 days at the beginning of his detention in Pakistan. Defence lawyers intend to argue that the CIA grilling sessions informed, influenced and tainted all subsequent interrogations, nullifying any admissions Mr. Khadr may have made.

Yet that won't matter because the CIA and other US intelligence agencies are always right.... just like when they knew where Osama was hiding, just like they knew Saddam had WMD's somewhere in Iraq.

(They're there.... trust them.... as soon as they can ship the WMD from Texas to Baghdad without getting noticed, they'll find them.... and they'll have the proof... they have the receipts.)

 

[Colpy]

I know I'm interested.... plus the fact that the bounty was apparently paid after they caught him too, all the while our government did jack-shat.



Well whoppty-frickity-doo-for-you!! Since when has the government suddenly stopped working for us and working for itself and their little buddies in similar positions in other countries?

The answer: They were never supposed to, therefore they don't... if they do, then they now risk their asses in my view and should have their heads rolling... literally. They work for us, therefore that information is ours, not their's.... they gather the information, and they use it to inform us, the public of the dangers we may face as a country, not to hide that information from us and try and work behind our backs to what they suspect we want, or what they want and feed it to us... plain and friggin simple.

The governments have had their asses in the comfy seats without risk to their lives for far too long. Serious consequences should be met when our leaders make mistakes and this, among many others are one of them that should merit some leaders being put on public trial and hung.... or have their damn heads chopped off like they used to do in France.

No more of this BS for politicians where they screw up and only face losing their jobs (But getting a nice rich package to keep them well off when they're booted at our expenses for their mistakes) ~ You screw up royally or go against the trust of the public, then you face death.... straighten those bastards right out, it would.



A Sh*tload!



Yup.



That sounds about par....



Yet that won't matter because the CIA and other US intelligence agencies are always right.... just like when they knew where Osama was hiding, just like they knew Saddam had WMD's somewhere in Iraq.

(They're there.... trust them.... as soon as they can ship the WMD from Texas to Baghdad without getting noticed, they'll find them.... and they'll have the proof... they have the receipts.)

Ah....com'on folks.....so the USA paid a bounty for a confessed terrorist... SO WHAT?

You do understand that this guy was not by anyone's definition a child, that he was part of the greater terrorist conspiracy (yeah, a real one, not one formulated under a tinfoil hat, that he ran guns for our greatest enemies, that he was a co-conspirator in an assasination attempt on the President of Pakistan..........that he is our enemy.

AND that we have undermined the principles of shared information with our allies in releasing the fact a bounty was paid? And that after the Americans released him to us?

Canada looks like an idiot. Once again.

Now, the one point that IS applicable here is the accusations of torture. If Mr. Khadr were tortured, any information he gave up in those sessions should, of course, be absolutely inadmissible in court.........and I understand our hesitation to extradite him to the USA......fair enough. He's our boy, in our country, we'll play by our rules....

BUT to undermine intelligence co-operation simply to publicize a bit of information that is IMHO, insignificant, is simply stupid.

Stupid stupid stupid

It would be different if it were some earth-shaking denial of human rights, some massive atrocity.....but here it is simply they paid a reward for the capture of a dangerous enemy......need I say it again?

SO WHAT?

 

[missile]

Being Canadian automatically makes one innocent..everyone knows that never in human history has any of our citizens done any badness8O8O

 

[Praxius]

Ah....com'on folks.....so the USA paid a bounty for a confessed terrorist... SO WHAT?

Oh yeah, twist it why don't you.... Confessed after capture and torture.. sure, same thing :angry3:

You do understand that this guy was not by anyone's definition a child, that he was part of the greater terrorist conspiracy (yeah, a real one, not one formulated under a tinfoil hat, that he ran guns for our greatest enemies, that he was a co-conspirator in an assasination attempt on the President of Pakistan..........that he is our enemy.

Don't ever tell me who my enemies are and are not, and nobody claimed he was a child, you're mixing up your information between the brothers. What's in question is what occured to the older brother.

And yet again there you go expressing your ever so loving "Guilty Until Proven Innocent" mentality. If you want our countries to be that way, then fight it in the courts to change it... until then, follow the rules and laws in which our countries are supposed to.

AND that we have undermined the principles of shared information with our allies in releasing the fact a bounty was paid? And that after the Americans released him to us?

Canada looks like an idiot. Once again.

Because the people of Canada and the media within Canada fought for that information to be made public because it should be, since he is in fact a Canadian Citizen? You got some screwed up priorities.

Now, the one point that IS applicable here is the accusations of torture. If Mr. Khadr were tortured, any information he gave up in those sessions should, of course, be absolutely inadmissible in court.........and I understand our hesitation to extradite him to the USA......fair enough. He's our boy, in our country, we'll play by our rules....

And that is where all the above argument comes from.... his confessions and the charges against him where from after he was captured in Pakistan and after he was tortured.

BUT to undermine intelligence co-operation simply to publicize a bit of information that is IMHO, insignificant, is simply stupid.

Stupid stupid stupid

Sure if you're into that police-state kinda stuff. I'm not however, and sorry if it bothers you, but I want my government accountable for its actions and I want my government working for me and the rest of us, the Canadian Citizens.... not for some other country's interests.

It would be different if it were some earth-shaking denial of human rights, some massive atrocity.....but here it is simply they paid a reward for the capture of a dangerous enemy......need I say it again?

SO WHAT?

So what? 1st, this was an attempt to capture him because his family has ties to Osama....

"....Pakistani military officials who arrested a Canadian citizen wanted for links to al-Qaeda"

..... not that he was found guilty of doing anything at the time.... they captured him as a person of interest and tortured him to gather information against "Our Enemy" then charged him for things he confessed to while being tortured in order to justify capturing him. 2nd, this is yet another example of the US doing whatever they please regardless of any human rights protecting the people they capture. Guilty or not guilty, there have been countless people detained under the US's authority as people of interests or suspected something or other and then they hold them without charge until they confess to crimes under torture, or they just simply don't have anything worthwhile to keep them and then release them years later with nothing more then a boot on the ass our the door.

"Rather than getting its own hands dirty, the U.S. simply paid the Musharraf regime $500,000 to arrest Mr. Khadr, knowing full well what Pakistan would do to him."

^ Would seem pretty well a good example of the US openly allowing the torture of people under their authority and having full knowlege of it being done, which is as you claimed as "earth-shaking denial of human rights" Yet again in another case by US responsibility. If you can not see this then I don't know what to tell you.

If our "greater then thou" countries are not supposed to send back refugees to countries where they could knowingly face torture or death, then where the hell do they get off doing this..... to our own citizens?