Gay bar settles human rights complaint with woman


Praxius
#1


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...429?hub=Canada

Quote:

MONTREAL -- A Montreal gay bar that caters to male clients has settled a discrimination complaint with a woman who was thrown out of the premises.

Bar Le Stud and Audrey Vachon, the 21-year-old woman who launched the complaint, agreed to keep the terms of the settlement confidential.

Quebec's human rights commission says businesses have the right to attract a particular clientele but not to discriminate by excluding other customers.

Vachon sat down at the bar with her father for an afternoon beer a year ago when staff told them women were not allowed.

Le Stud owner Michel Gadoury said at the time women had been banned most nights since the bar opened 11 years ago.

I remember reading about this when it first came out, and here's the conclusion I guess.

Interesting they can exclude everybody from their little bar who are not "gay males." Apparently even women who are gay are not even allowed in.

Hmmmm.... so does this mean straight men can have their clubs again where no women are allowed in, and they can exclude males who are gay too? I mean, it would only be fair..... women already have exercise clubs and such that don't allow men to come in or they will certainly give you dirty looks (Went to pick up an ex at one.... holy hell, talk about a pile of bitches... like I actually did anything except walk in and walk out.)

So which is it going to be?

Every group and gender can have their own isolated clubs away from all the other undesireables or shall we keep it all pollitically correct that it makes us bleed from the ears and make sure no clubs or bars, etc. can discriminate based on gender or sexual preference?

It's also interesting that during all this equality crap that's been going on over the last couple of decades, everybody who is not a straight white male have all their little clubs and organizations specific to their special little needs, while straight white males are pretty well still classified as neo-nazi scum bag trailer trash arseholes who will try and oppress the planet again if we're given equal rights to any other gender or race/sexual preference.

Replace the above mentioned gay bar with a sports bar of some kind and replace the woman with some gay guy...... now put into play a similar situation where the gay guy is thrown out because he's a gay guy and gay guys are not allowed in...... tell me how this looks.
 
#juan
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post




Replace the above mentioned gay bar with a sports bar of some kind and replace the woman with some gay guy...... now put into play a similar situation where the gay guy is thrown out because he's a gay guy and gay guys are not allowed in...... tell me how this looks.

There would be such a $hit storm about that scenario we could hear it on the west coast without our speakers.
 
Walter
#3
Bloody bundles of sticks.
 
karrie
#4
that's simple enough to get around by going to a 'private club' status with membership fees if the bar so sees fit. I don't see why it would stress though. What's a few women? Big whoop? Most of my gay friends don't go out to the bar without their girlfriends in tow anyhow.
 
Avro
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by WalterView Post

Bloody bundles of sticks.

Just call them fags, it's never stopped you before bigot.

Or perhaps you're a cowardly bigot....most bigots are.
 
Praxius
#6
One thing I found odd about this was that she was there with her father, whom I am assuming is now or always was gay. If you are a friend or a family member of a regular customer to the bar, and it's not a membership only-type of thing, then why would they make such a damn big stink over her there, being a paying customer and what not?

What, was she out-gaying them or something and they were getting insecure? Were they fearful that she might start making fun of people there, or was her very presence already making them uncomfortible at the thought that someone different from them was within their view or ear shot?

If you can't see where I'm going with this, the gay community in general speaking, is always fighting for acceptance, tollerance, acknowlegement of their identity, equality, etc.... From what I have gathered over the years, most want to be just accepted as part of the community and culture of Canada and have all the same rights and such as anybody else...... to be treated normally if you will.

Yet they will try and restrict who can come into their clubs, their bars/establishments, they continue to try and get the gay pride flag put up along with the country/proviencial flags at city/town hall and cry discrimination when they don't get it put up, they have giant parades kicking around and shouting at the top of their voices that they're here, they're queer and for us all to get used to it.......

..... but the moment one person cracks a joke, or makes a smirky comment, or makes them feel uncomfortable just by sitting near or around them, they're bigots, or ignorant, trying to discriminate against them, to make them feel like 2nd class citizens or whatever lame excuse can be made. They'll ban an entire society from their bars/pubs except those who are "Gay Males" because they're afraid of someone coming in and making them feel uncomfortable...... where's the tollerance and equality there?

Do you think I get the opportunity to kick and ban people from the places I go downtown just because they might call me a name, or make fun of me coming from an Irish herritage, or whatever else might make me feel uncomfortable?

That's life, get the hell over it princesses. You want equality and acceptance in society? Then take all the good and all the bad that comes with it and stop your damn bickering.
 
Walter
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by AvroView Post

Just call them fags, it's never stopped you before bigot.

There should be a comma before the word bigot in your post.
 
shadowshiv
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by AvroView Post

Just call them fags, it's never stopped you before bigot.

Or perhaps you're a cowardly bigot....most bigots are.

How does 'bloody bundles of sticks' associate with being a bigot?

I have never heard that term before, so that is why I am asking.
 
gopher
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by shadowshiv

How does 'bloody bundles of sticks' associate with being a bigot?

I have never heard that term before, so that is why I am asking.



A bundle of kindling used for starting fires are called faggots.

Walter is saying that all gays should be put the fire just like Hitler did. Had he said it about any ethnic group he would have been banned from this forum.
 
shadowshiv
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by gopherView Post

A bundle of kindling used for starting fires are called faggots.

Walter is saying that all gays should be put the fire just like Hitler did. Had he said it about any ethnic group he would have been banned from this forum.

Thanks Gopher.
 
karrie
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by gopherView Post

A bundle of kindling used for starting fires are called faggots.

Walter is saying that all gays should be put the fire just like Hitler did. Had he said it about any ethnic group he would have been banned from this forum.

I would agree with your assessment if it weren't for the fact that I've heard Walter use the same term before to denote 'a lot of nonsense over nothing', with threads that had nothing to do with homosexuals.

Sometimes we're completely unaware of the deeper meanings or ramifications of the terms we're using.
 
gopher
#12
"'a lot of nonsense over nothing'"

When homosexuals were being thrown to the fire during the middle ages thereby creating that term, it was not viewed as nonsense.
 
Praxius
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by gopherView Post

"'a lot of nonsense over nothing'"

When homosexuals were being thrown to the fire during the middle ages thereby creating that term, it was not viewed as nonsense.

Well welcome to the 21st century.... people need to get over themselves.
 
gopher
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Praxius;

Well welcome to the 21st century.... people need to get over themselves.



Precisely my point. Prejudice, no matter what its guise may be, is wrong.
 
no color
#15
Here's a spinoff to this thread ...

Montreal Man Drops Complaint Against Curves


Quote:

Man drops complaint against Curves

Irwin Block, Montreal Gazette

Published: Tuesday, May 13

A Montreal man has withdrawn a human-rights complaint against Curves, a chain of women-only fitness centres.

Rick Matthews has informed the Quebec Human Rights Commission he will not pursue his allegation that Curves' focus on female clients discriminates against men, commission spokesperson Robert Sylvestre said yesterday.

Matthews took the action after a woman filed a complaint against Le Stud, a bar in the gay village, after she was refused service.

Matthews declined to be interviewed, but said in a letter to The Gazette that he still believes in the merits of his case, but understands other issues are involved.
"I also recognize that Curves ... offers a safe environment for its patrons and I appreciate the unique space which it set out to create," he wrote.

In its ruling on Le Stud, the commission said that while a bar is not necessarily welcoming to women, it can't deny them admission as it did with complainant Audrey Vachon of Longueuil.

Matthews wrote that while the Quebec charter means anyone can attend a gay or lesbian bar or women-focused gym, "I firmly believe in the notion of 'silent respect.'
"These two words speak for themselves and there is no need to amplify further."

When he filed his complaint, Matthews said he hoped to make the point that if women demand access to men-only bars the same right can be demanded of women-only health clubs.

Le Stud, at Ste. Catherine St. E. and Papineau Ave., settled with Vachon after she was asked to leave the establishment.

The commission helped mediate a settlement but declined to provide details.

Sigh ... I guess when you've got lots of free time on your hands ...
 
Praxius
#16
Hey I went with my ex one time to curves, and I was just sitting on a chair right by the entranceway waiting for her to check things out and perhaps sign up, not even looking at anybody in there (Like I could care) and I couldn't believe the fk'n dirty looks they were giving me, just for existing in that spot in time.... like I was about to start grabbing their ******s and drolling at the mouth or something.... it was fk'n retarded.... ugly old bags, nobody would have wanted to look at them anyways, and to give me the attitude that I was like some child predetor in their pressence was just pathetic.

I certainly don't treat people any differently because of their gender, religion or sexual preference, but when others treat me differently because of those things.... buddy look out, cuz you're in for a very embarassing scene for yourself and your company..... and trust me, I ain't got any shame left in my body from high school, I don't care who I take down with me in character.

Curves has got to be probably one of the biggests sexist companies I've come across so far.
 
karrie
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

..and I couldn't believe the fk'n dirty looks they were giving me, just for existing in that spot in time.... like I was about to start grabbing their ******s and drolling at the mouth or something....

lol.... these gyms weren't started because the women who go there think the men will drool over them or maul them. These gyms were started because these women think that men will think...." ugly old bags, nobody would have wanted to look at them anyways."

I wish sometimes that men could see some of the mockery out of shape women get in a traditional gym. Some of the rude **** that gets yelled at fat women who have the nerve to try to get out walking for their health. It would probably be enough to make you feel like crawling into a private gym too Prax, where you don't feel mocked.
 
missile
#18
It's all about body image and most of the women are insecure about their bodies,so it makes good sense to have women only health and exercise clubssome of my relatives frequent Curves and love the place.
 
Zzarchov
#19
A better option is why are women so self-concious about their bodies. Men (as a general rule) aren't to anywhere near the same degree. Again I realise this is broad generalizations, I've met my share of women who don't give a damn (Good for them) and men who care entirely too much.
 
karrie
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by ZzarchovView Post

A better option is why are women so self-concious about their bodies. Men (as a general rule) aren't to anywhere near the same degree. Again I realise this is broad generalizations, I've met my share of women who don't give a damn (Good for them) and men who care entirely too much.

I think it's awesome when women don't care. But, the ones who do are often so crippled by self consciousness that they don't dare go out and do anything that might earn them mockery. I'm one of them. My mom is one of them. It's hit the point that my mom won't walk without a man, because she's been yelled at twice this year, to 'get her fat *** out of public'. So tell me that woman doesn't deserve a gym where she can work out without some jackass passing judgement on her worthiness to be seen?
 
Praxius
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

lol.... these gyms weren't started because the women who go there think the men will drool over them or maul them. These gyms were started because these women think that men will think...." ugly old bags, nobody would have wanted to look at them anyways."

Hey I only dish out attitude when it's given.... I wouldn't have taken a shot at them if they didn't give me crap for just simply sitting and waiting for my ex to shell her money out to them. But either way, regardless of the attitudes they gave me, I sat there emotionless and still like I normally do, waiting to leave. I don't stare or gock at people as I know how that makes people feel.... yet there they were, doing it to me.... and I wasn't even in speedos.

Quote:

I wish sometimes that men could see some of the mockery out of shape women get in a traditional gym. Some of the rude **** that gets yelled at fat women who have the nerve to try to get out walking for their health. It would probably be enough to make you feel like crawling into a private gym too Prax, where you don't feel mocked.

And you don't think I haven't had years of mocking and insults thrown at me throughout my life? Hell I still do. Being taller then the average male, 28 and still have acne like a 16 year old, in shape, but still have some sagging skin here and there..... people need to suck it up and get over themselves. I didn't make a stab at them being out of shape, or for going to a gym in the first place.

Ugly old bags was in reference to them being older then I and having an attitude younger then I. If you're going to act like stuck up and immature children, then you get labeled Ugly old bag, because your attitude is ugly. I honestly don't even remember what they look like, nor do I care.

I know I'm no spring chicken or male model, and I know not everybody likes me, or how I look.... heck I'm even sure many will throw their comments back and forth in a negative manner about me behind my back... I couldn't care less, cuz I sure as hell can't please everybody in the world. I take them as they come..... but when it comes to giving you a negative atmosphere for just sitting in one spot and minding your own business is pathetic..... they might as well go back to 1956 and give some black people some dirty looks for eating in the same resturant as them, because it wasn't much different... only in a sexist manner.

Hell my ex even told me they were commenting to her about me being there.... like fk, grow the hell up.

If gays and women etc. want to be treated equally, then they best drop this whole "Now you can feel like how women/gays felt for so long" attitude. I wasn't alive back then to give people racist, homophobic or sexist slurs to their mothers or fathers, I don't do it today, and I sure as hell don't need the attitude dished back at me for no good reason other then to make them feel all righteous about themselves.... it's pathetic. You want equality, then act like it.

Same goes with these gay guys in the original topic.... you want equality and to be able to eat in peace in other resturants, then don't treat those different from you differently.... treat them equally as if they were as gay as you or as much of a woman as you, and you'll see people are not always arsepuckers.
 
Praxius
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

I think it's awesome when women don't care. But, the ones who do are often so crippled by self consciousness that they don't dare go out and do anything that might earn them mockery. I'm one of them. My mom is one of them. It's hit the point that my mom won't walk without a man, because she's been yelled at twice this year, to 'get her fat *** out of public'. So tell me that woman doesn't deserve a gym where she can work out without some jackass passing judgement on her worthiness to be seen?

I was going to say that perhaps those women who are so crippled by their apperances need to get therapy, but that might have come off offensive to you since you categorized yourself in that situation.

The people who yell out those things should be charged with harrasment and to be shown that that sort of attitude is no longer accepted, nor tollerated. Allowing them to shout those things and nothing being done about it, except the victim becoming more recluse and trying to find places to hide to do what they please is only making their goals become sucess, by affecting your life.

It doesn't matter how fat or how skinny, or how ugly or how pretty you are... you will always have someone yell something out at you at one time or another that takes your self-esteme down a notch. Understanding that you're not the only one who gets treated this way is the first step.

Most tell me that I'm somewhat above average in attractiveness and that I'm not all that fat (like I used to be) I sort of see what they mean, but I've never been given positive comments or compliments for the majority of my life until recently, so I don't easily accept those compliments and figure they're just building up for an insult, so I just shrug it off just like any other positive/negative comment. Like many other people out there, I see my imperfections and I am my own worst critic. When someone takes a shot at one or two of the things I notice about myself on a daily basis, it'll take you down a level and make your day pretty ****ty.... it's human nature and conditioning. Those people insulting you or your mom on the street most likely do it to plenty of other people walking down the street.

Eventually those people will get their heads slammed into the sidewalk for running their mouths.... but regardless, overweight people get yelled some nasty insults..... skinny people get yelled to go eat something, or something along the lines of them puking their food up, etc..... attractive people who dress to make themselves feel good can be yelled that they look like a prostitute and how much an hour.... there's insults for everyone, for every shape, size, colour, race and sexual preference.....
 
Praxius
#23
Oh and by the way.... although I don't remember any of the faces of the women who were there when I was given the crappy looks.... I do remember that not one of them seemed overweight to me.
 
Zzarchov
#24
It also depends on (sub?) culture.

For instance, amongst me and my closest friends (male and female) it would be seen incredibley akward and uncomfortable to give a pure compliment in any normal circumstances (ie, if there hasn't been a great tragedy or a great accomplishment), while the more creative and debilitating insults are met with warm approval all around (including the target, be it me or anyone else).

Where as some of my professional collegues...acting in that kind of way would result in shocked faces, akward silences and hurt feelings.

The rambling point is some people just don't know manners. I blame a society that preaches so heavily against violent reprisals. I've found in cultures where a slap to the face is an acceptable response to calling someone "a fat bitch", fewer people say such things to strangers.
 

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