April 25th, 2008, 07:42 AM
Greenpeace founder Patrick Moore says there is no proof global warming is caused by humans, but it is likely enough that the world should turn to nuclear power - a concept tied closely to the underground nuclear testing his former environmental group formed to oppose.
The chemistry of the atmosphere is changing, and there is a high-enough risk that "true believers" like Al Gore are right that world economies need to wean themselves off fossil fuels to reduce greenhouse gases, he said.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/newsup...ry/360625.html
Greenpeace founder Patrick Moore says there is no proof global warming is caused by humans, but it is likely enough that the world should turn to nuclear power - a concept tied closely to the underground nuclear testing his former environmental group formed to oppose.
The chemistry of the atmosphere is changing, and there is a high-enough risk that "true believers" like Al Gore are right that world economies need to wean themselves off fossil fuels to reduce greenhouse gases, he said.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/newsup...ry/360625.html
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,969 
Location: USA
Location: USA
April 25th, 2008, 09:14 AM
I am with you. I am tired of fossil fuels.
Did you read though about ethanol? That does not look like a good alternative as the bulk of corn produced will go to ethanol. That means corn prices will skyrocket and there will be less corn for poorer nations. No more corn on the cob.
I am with you. I am tired of fossil fuels.
Did you read though about ethanol? That does not look like a good alternative as the bulk of corn produced will go to ethanol. That means corn prices will skyrocket and there will be less corn for poorer nations. No more corn on the cob.
April 25th, 2008, 09:18 AM
Quoting EagleSmack
That and it costs more petroleum to grow, harvest, ship, convert, and truck the ethanol than you actually get out of the ethanol. Ethanol's killing the planet
I am with you. I am tired of fossil fuels.
Did you read though about ethanol? That does not look like a good alternative as the bulk of corn produced will go to ethanol. That means corn prices will skyrocket and there will be less corn for poorer nations. No more corn on the cob.
Did you read though about ethanol? That does not look like a good alternative as the bulk of corn produced will go to ethanol. That means corn prices will skyrocket and there will be less corn for poorer nations. No more corn on the cob.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
April 25th, 2008, 09:22 AM
It's like Canadian health-care nonsense pointing at the rising numbers of elderly and the end of the Baby-Boomer era leaving Canada with a huge number of older folk who are going to need care that's expensive.....
What have these morons been doing for the past sixty years? What have automobile manufacturers and governments been so concerned with that the impact of an automobile based economy and the consequences of that methodology that would be inevitable....where the hell are the smart people?
Quoting EagleSmack
I agree Eagle...it's a complex issue. I realize it won't get us anywhere...but how can the communities most responsible for creating this mess be trusted with anything they say?
I am with you. I am tired of fossil fuels.
Did you read though about ethanol? That does not look like a good alternative as the bulk of corn produced will go to ethanol. That means corn prices will skyrocket and there will be less corn for poorer nations. No more corn on the cob.
Did you read though about ethanol? That does not look like a good alternative as the bulk of corn produced will go to ethanol. That means corn prices will skyrocket and there will be less corn for poorer nations. No more corn on the cob.
It's like Canadian health-care nonsense pointing at the rising numbers of elderly and the end of the Baby-Boomer era leaving Canada with a huge number of older folk who are going to need care that's expensive.....
What have these morons been doing for the past sixty years? What have automobile manufacturers and governments been so concerned with that the impact of an automobile based economy and the consequences of that methodology that would be inevitable....where the hell are the smart people?
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,969
Location: USA
Location: USA
April 25th, 2008, 09:53 AM
It is insane!
Quoting karrie
My friend from Southern Illinois also pointed me out the fact that corn is so hard on the soil and that if ethanol comes to fruition as a fuel alternative that more land that produced other crops will be needed to grow corn. The demand for corn will grow and farmers will make more money growing it that they will forsake their other crops.
That and it costs more petroleum to grow, harvest, ship, convert, and truck the ethanol than you actually get out of the ethanol. Ethanol's killing the planet
It is insane!
Grossly Underrated
Posts: 4,815
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
Location: In the bush somewhere near Sudbury
April 25th, 2008, 10:17 AM
Why aren't they working a bit more on methanol - IE a byproduct of rotting garbage. We've created dumpsful of resource. They're harvesting it now to generate electricity at Sudbury and North Bay landfill sites.
Woof!
Quoting MikeyDB
Is there a difference between grain alcohol and corn alcohol? Doesn't matter. Hydrocarbons from carbohydrates is not a good deal. It's feeding an addiction.
The appetite for four-wheel-freedom and the mystique of the internal combustion engine as pathway to "freedom" is what needs changing.
Why aren't they working a bit more on methanol - IE a byproduct of rotting garbage. We've created dumpsful of resource. They're harvesting it now to generate electricity at Sudbury and North Bay landfill sites.
Woof!
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
April 25th, 2008, 10:21 AM
Hey Lone....how's it goin eh..?
Corporations manufacturing automobiles don't and have never considered the outcome of their enterprise. Corporations that spend billions feeding the appetites of the automobile world that's been created don't bother with thinking about a hundred years down the road. We have economies based on the greed of producers who don't give a damn about anything but the here and now and a system of laws and government that have no longer vision than the next election.
Hey Lone....how's it goin eh..?
Corporations manufacturing automobiles don't and have never considered the outcome of their enterprise. Corporations that spend billions feeding the appetites of the automobile world that's been created don't bother with thinking about a hundred years down the road. We have economies based on the greed of producers who don't give a damn about anything but the here and now and a system of laws and government that have no longer vision than the next election.
Metal King
Posts: 907
Location: Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
Location: Golden Horseshoe, Ontario
April 25th, 2008, 10:46 AM
Eaglesmack, you are totally right about that- corn is one of the most soil depleting crops there is- the demand for (and thus usage of) tons and tons of fertilizer will be insane and from what I've read here and there certain components of fertilizer are becoming hyper-expensive.
Turning all the arable land to corn production would be sheer stupidity, but hell, profits ain't "smart" to begin with.
The BEST solution would be to petition any available species/race of extraterrestrial lifeforms to come and steal ALL our oil (including the stuff that's in the ground) overnight. Ethanol would not even BE an option is it weren't for fossil fuels being used in its production.
The sudden disappearance of ALL fossil fuels would no doubt have GRAVE consequences but it would be a totally awesome way to put the lie to the concept of "economics" and "economies" in general
Plus it'd be funny to see a ton of insanely rich people suddenly have to actually think for once- being of the social strata I occupy, I have had to think for decades so I got a good head start on any possible competition
Eaglesmack, you are totally right about that- corn is one of the most soil depleting crops there is- the demand for (and thus usage of) tons and tons of fertilizer will be insane and from what I've read here and there certain components of fertilizer are becoming hyper-expensive.
Turning all the arable land to corn production would be sheer stupidity, but hell, profits ain't "smart" to begin with.
The BEST solution would be to petition any available species/race of extraterrestrial lifeforms to come and steal ALL our oil (including the stuff that's in the ground) overnight. Ethanol would not even BE an option is it weren't for fossil fuels being used in its production.
The sudden disappearance of ALL fossil fuels would no doubt have GRAVE consequences but it would be a totally awesome way to put the lie to the concept of "economics" and "economies" in general
Plus it'd be funny to see a ton of insanely rich people suddenly have to actually think for once- being of the social strata I occupy, I have had to think for decades so I got a good head start on any possible competition
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
April 25th, 2008, 10:53 AM
Well I'm sure there will be many people offended by this idea.....
No car ownership!
Build electrics/hybrids/hydrogen....cars that are technically and in terms of performance identical. Take land space currently used for parking lots and any other large area and park these cars in that area. When you recive your drivers license, you are given a pass key/card/chip that allows you to take one of these cars from the pool and use it to run your errands and get to where you need to go. Like rally-races, "pool-lots" would exist in any number of cities along major thouroughfares and as you travel you exchange cars in these lots depending on your passenger requriements etc.
All insurance premiums are paid by energy companies that produce the fuel for these cars and the infrastructure is developed to support lighter vehicles, shorter trips and so on...
Still working on the idea...
Well I'm sure there will be many people offended by this idea.....
No car ownership!
Build electrics/hybrids/hydrogen....cars that are technically and in terms of performance identical. Take land space currently used for parking lots and any other large area and park these cars in that area. When you recive your drivers license, you are given a pass key/card/chip that allows you to take one of these cars from the pool and use it to run your errands and get to where you need to go. Like rally-races, "pool-lots" would exist in any number of cities along major thouroughfares and as you travel you exchange cars in these lots depending on your passenger requriements etc.
All insurance premiums are paid by energy companies that produce the fuel for these cars and the infrastructure is developed to support lighter vehicles, shorter trips and so on...
Still working on the idea...
Gobsmacked
Posts: 4,748
April 25th, 2008, 08:27 PM
What pisses me off is that the technology to produce vehicles that run on non-polluting renewable energy sources is available - I believe it needs work to make a vehicle that's feasible for longer drives, but for the kind of commute most people have every day, it is feasible.
We have created our own dependence on motorized transport, but there are ways we can accommodate that without killing our planet. The problem seems to be that the previously assumed immortal life span of the oil (and soon to be corn?) cash cow might come to an end.
Why else isn't every government on the planet legislating a significant decrease in the amount of pollution producing and planet raping fuel used by forcing restricted use of oil-burning vehicles within city limits? If consumers were left with no choice, they would buy the eco-friendly vehicles - and the car manufacturers would do as they always do - bow to the almighty dollar and begin mass producing them.
It's pure unadulterated greed that's killing our planet, plain and simple.
eta -posted before reading all of the posts here - seems I've leaped on the same band wagon as Mikey.
What pisses me off is that the technology to produce vehicles that run on non-polluting renewable energy sources is available - I believe it needs work to make a vehicle that's feasible for longer drives, but for the kind of commute most people have every day, it is feasible.
We have created our own dependence on motorized transport, but there are ways we can accommodate that without killing our planet. The problem seems to be that the previously assumed immortal life span of the oil (and soon to be corn?) cash cow might come to an end.
Why else isn't every government on the planet legislating a significant decrease in the amount of pollution producing and planet raping fuel used by forcing restricted use of oil-burning vehicles within city limits? If consumers were left with no choice, they would buy the eco-friendly vehicles - and the car manufacturers would do as they always do - bow to the almighty dollar and begin mass producing them.
It's pure unadulterated greed that's killing our planet, plain and simple.
eta -posted before reading all of the posts here - seems I've leaped on the same band wagon as Mikey.
Genius
Posts: 768
Location: Ardrossan, Alberta
Location: Ardrossan, Alberta
April 25th, 2008, 08:35 PM
In the science and tech thread there a post about the tesla car- electric 250 mile range, 10 cents a mile to operate, far fewer moving parts to wear out i'm sure this tech can be adapted for other vehicles as well. Biofuels are BS
In the science and tech thread there a post about the tesla car- electric 250 mile range, 10 cents a mile to operate, far fewer moving parts to wear out i'm sure this tech can be adapted for other vehicles as well. Biofuels are BS
