Committee recommends less-homework policy


Praxius
#1


http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...403?hub=Canada

Quote:

Toronto District School Board committee has voted in favour of a report that limits the amount of homework teachers can assign.
The committee members voted to support the "family-friendly" policy on Wednesday night. The proposal has three recommendations: Students shouldn't be penalized for handing in assignments late or incomplete
Students shouldn't be assigned homework on scheduled holidays or other significant days
The amount of workload should be broken down by grade: Those in Grades 1 to 6 should only get reading assignments, those in Grades 7 and 8 should get no more than one hour of homework a night and high school students should get no more than two hours.
"This is a moderately balanced approach, but at the end of the day it's a family-friendly motion, a family-friendly policy that will support students and ensure that they will do their homework but at reasonable times and (be given) a reasonable amount," trustee Josh Matlow said after the vote.
Matlow, who brought forward the proposal more than a year ago, says studies indicate homework at an early age is redundant.
When asked about the concerns over not penalizing students for incomplete assignments, Matlow said there is a difference between a penalty and a consequence.

Quote has been trimmed
There shouldn't be homework period... if they want to teach them about real life and work etc.... then don't give them homework. Most jobs don't give you a crap load of work to do when you go home and then expect you to not get paid for it, so why should kids waste their lives with this crap when they should be doing other things?
 
MikeyDB
#2
Sorry Praxius we disagee on this issue.

Homework teaches time management, self-reliance and a whole slew of other worthwhile skills. Many people have jobs that require them to upgrade skills and acquire new skill-sets and knowledge as the work environment changes. We don't expect nor grant children the authority to make critical decisions, we as parents have a responsibility to make decisions and judgments on their behalf. Partly this is because they lack the experience and sufficient immediate information to make an informed decision and homework although "school-related" reinforces the perception that learning takes place not only in school but througout a lifetime.

Expectations are what the world of employment is all about after all and if we fail to provice a means whereby the student/child is given a non-critical opportunity to experience the pressure of expecting work to be performed that meets critical criteria we do them a disservice.
 
Praxius
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDBView Post

Sorry Praxius we disagee on this issue.

Fair enough.

Quote:

Homework teaches time management, self-reliance and a whole slew of other worthwhile skills.

Which they already learn in class with various periods, recess, tests, exams, assignments, etc. If you are late for class, what happens? When you are late at work or with a project for a client, what happens?

Quote:

Many people have jobs that require them to upgrade skills and acquire new skill-sets and knowledge as the work environment changes.

And most pay for these couses to update their employees.... at least the ones I worked for. It is in their best interests. For myself, if I want to learn something extra on my own outside of the training/seminars/trade shows, that is my choice.

Quote:

We don't expect nor grant children the authority to make critical decisions,

I do. The sooner the better.

Quote:

we as parents have a responsibility to make decisions and judgments on their behalf.

Agreed, but what that is in paticular varies from family to family.

Quote:

Partly this is because they lack the experience and sufficient immediate information to make an informed decision and homework although "school-related" reinforces the perception that learning takes place not only in school but througout a lifetime.

Sorry, I never needed homework to tell me this.... my house burns down at 9 years of age, my critical thinking tells me to get my *** out of the house before I die. I didn't have time to wait for someone to tell me what to do. That is something parents should teach their kids as young as possible, and doing 5 different homework assignments which take an hour each from each class you take doesn't teach you this, it teaches you that you have no life. And sorry, but life isn't all about work and money.

Quote:

Expectations are what the world of employment is all about after all and if we fail to provice (Provide) a means whereby the student/child is given a non-critical opportunity to experience the pressure of expecting work to be performed that meets critical criteria we do them a disservice.

And coming from a son of a teacher who's been teaching since '74, who's also the rep of the teacher's union of his district, myself a student rep in college, student educator in the same college, and an after hours computer class monitor responsible for three classrooms in another college whereby I helped various other students with their assignments/projects..... one thing I learned over the years is that homework doesn't help anybody.

A student is forced to work on assignments outside of the environment in which it relates, during time in which they require to eat, rest and socialize with their peers and family, causes them to not only lose interest in what they are supposed to be doing, is burns them out in concentration of those subjects, they are only doing what they need to get done and do not absorb what is required.

Some jobs may expect you to take work home with you and work more..... that's their loss for taking such a job and bending over backwards being taken for granted. Most jobs do not force you to do this.

This is also why there is a labour board and regulations in the real world for people and companies to follow. Certain amount of breaks are required, safety proceedures are to be followed and worker's rights are needed to be met. some jobs are 6 hours.... some are 8, others can be 12, depending on what you do. School is on average an 8 or so time frame per day. Breaks are issued and assignments are passed out to work on. Due dates are also issued for these things, not just homework. Studies have shown that homework issued out has increased a lot over the years and now takes up most of their time after school. Heck, I remember when I was a kid I never got all my homework done, because I just didn't have enough time afterwards to complete it all. Before I knew it I was spending an extra hour or two past my bed time to try and finish it, then I'd be burnt out the next day, lose marks for incompleted work and then not have the concentration requried to concentrate on the stuff taught in class.... then it'd repeat.

People wonder why the overall SAT's and such in the country are dropping each year. It is because students are losing interest, don't care, stressed out, and it's because most of their lives are taken up by one thing, even outside of the normal time frame.

In the real world, how is one supposed to raise a functioning family that cares about one another when the parents are constantly out on business trips or need to finish that deal before the deadline during their personal time outside of work? This process doesn't work and is unhealthy. Children don't get the required attention from their parents, they go unchecked, and as important as homework may seem, so too is socialization outside of the school environment and so is family time. If school is supposed to represent and prepare them for the real world, then it should act like it.
Last edited by Praxius; Apr 4th, 2008 at 01:02 PM..
 
MikeyDB
#4
Praxius

Like I said, I disagree and don't really thing the topic is worth all that much energy to discuss. Homework never harmed anyone. Too much free-time at the mall has. As a youngster I lived for a few years on a farm and the day began at 5 AM. Chores and work until breakfast at eight then off on my bicycle to town to catch the bus to school. Reverse the whole thing in the evening of course... Homework was something I got finished betwen bus stops and riding to and from school. But I don't think my spirit or my experience suffered a great deal from doing homework.
 
Praxius
#5
Yes, but also don't forget, you're basing this on when you were a kid (Not sure of your age) I'm basing my side on 10 years ago when I was in grade 12. I've found that more homework is being assigned today, more so then even when I was in school not that long ago.

You worked/lived on a farm, I delt with the 5am/6am military and my mom's side of the family was farm/fisherman, so I know about the long hours in a day as a kid.... my references towards what you called "experience and spirit" was related to those jobs you spoke of where they ask more from you then they are paying you and what affect this has on today's families.

As it goes for homework and kids today, I'm not saying it screws them up to oblivion that they can not function, but the majority are not sucessfully absorbing what they are supposed to, and if they're not learning what they are supposed to be learning from these things, then what's the point?

What happens when these kids take up a sport, sea/army/air cadets, or some other hobby after school and homework takes up most of the night that they can only do one or the other?

fyi: I wasn't a mall rat either.... that too is a parenting thing, and homework isn't a preventative measure of avoiding their loitering ways. (Once again, a family time issue.) If your kids are wasting all their time hanging around a mall, then there's something wrong.
 
MikeyDB
#6
Man you will try to breathe life into this thread won't you...

Today downtown I see kids laying on park benches playing video games, texting their "circle" with what I'm willing to bet are inane bits of mental detritus that passes for "communication with my homies"....

If they've got time for Playstation and X-Box, they've got time for a little homework....
 
Praxius
#7
lol.... yet I did most of the same, and I ended up taking graphic design, interactive multimedia and animation.... currently working in the sign/advertisement industry... homework let alone anything I learned in school helped me along with any of this. What did was my own personal education in the arts I took on my own time, because I was interested. I did what I needed to graduate and nothing more, because it wasn't interesting, nor did I find much of it educational in what I wanted to go into.

That doesn't mean I wasn't a good instructor or educator when I was working in those fields. I was told I explained things a lot clearer and easier then the instructors. As stated before, homework did squat and was a waste of time personally for me and for others I knew.

Those kids playing on their tech will be the next generation of minds such as myself..... now isn't that scary? :P

But seriously we've stated our opinions... not much more to say.

To each their own.
 
Tonington
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

There shouldn't be homework period... if they want to teach them about real life and work etc.... then don't give them homework. Most jobs don't give you a crap load of work to do when you go home and then expect you to not get paid for it, so why should kids waste their lives with this crap when they should be doing other things?

Umm, I gotta disagree here. Maybe not all jobs require extra hours of work, for no pay. But many do. Better to get accustomed to that possibility, rather than have it sprung on you after your scholastics are finished.

What about University? Should we have no homework? The recommended amount of time to spend on work at home is something like ten hours per course, every week. That's on top of class time. I'm in four classes this semester. All told, that would be 62 hours including labs, lectures, and recommended readings/home work.Not all students spend that much time. I don't, I don't need to. But then again I'm not **** about chasing two donuts on my marks.

Besides the point, homework is valuable as independent learning. It is valuable, because not all jobs simply end as bankers hours do. I don't know for certain, but I suspect many bankers probably don't even work banker's hours. Sometimes a task has to be completed. There may be something which needs to be dealt with, and for some jobs, that means extra pay. For others it doesn't. Perhaps it's not fair. But that's life, such as it is.

I don't think society needs an excuse to be an lazier than we have already become.
 
Niflmir
#9
This recommendation was largely motivated by a study by statistics Canada that came out about a year ago. Here is a summary of it.

Long story short, your average Canadian teen isn't "learning" how to work hard, they are on average working as hard or harder than an adult with a full time job - but without any pay. During this time of important physical and mental development, 64% of students are cutting back on sleep in order to meet commitments which grant no reward beyond the promise of education. Homework is never new material, since in some sense you must already know how to do it, so arguing that it is educational is slightly facetious.

I have tutored many people, sat down with them and pushed them to ensure that they would pass their tests. To do this I generally had them do more of the same work they were taught, I never allowed myself the illusion that they were learning something from it. No, my intent was to make them solve the type of problems that they would be tested on over and over again. This way when they saw it, it would come naturally. But that is not education, that is the art of perfecting an acquired skill, if only temporarily in some cases.
 
SwitSof
#10
Practice does lead to (near) perfection, at least to have it rubbed in as second nature as if.
 
eh1eh
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by SwitSofView Post

Practice does lead to (near) perfection, at least to have it rubbed in as second nature as if.


Indeed. Memorize and win.

(Hi girl how you been?)
 
Niflmir
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by SwitSofView Post

Practice does lead to (near) perfection, at least to have it rubbed in as second nature as if.

I don't think anything really comes as second nature to people. That idea may be one of the most damaging; at least that is how I see it.
 
mapleleafs67
#13
institutional buildings like school should only be used for socialization.If you want your kids taught something then buy them a computer and let them find the information online.
 
Kreskin
#14
I was a head of my time. I did very little of it.
 
SwitSof
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

I don't think anything really comes as second nature to people. That idea may be one of the most damaging; at least that is how I see it.

Niflmir, how come it'd be damaging, you reckon?
 
SwitSof
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by eh1ehView Post

Indeed. Memorize and win.

(Hi girl how you been?)

No, not memorizing, but just to make one familiarize with solving say mathematical problems for example.

Eh1eh, I'm doing better here in Lyon than in Dublin. Will write you a PM.
 
Praxius
#17
Speaking of mathimatical problems, besides adding, subtracting, muliplication, devision and some basic measurment study.... wtf is the point of all the other crap you're taught?

Calculus, Pre-Cal? If a boat leaves port at 6:01am at 34kmh to Boston and the water current shifts the angle of the boats direction by 3.245 degrees counter-clockwise.... what is the circumference of the hypotenuse of Pi if the water temprature decreases by X = or < then 24?

WTF? Give me the damn pipe, you smoked yourself retarded! Who gives a rats ***? It'll get there when it gets there.

Helps improve problem solving skills? No.... The movie series SAW teaches you problem solving skills... Math is a waste of time and puts you to sleep beyond the basics.... and I use math on an everyday basis.
 
karrie
#18
There should definitely be limits put upon the homework burden.

That, or people better shut the ___ up about the obesity epidemic.

One or the other, but we don't get it both ways.

If my grade two kid has to spend almost 2 hours a night doing homework, that leaves her no time to go out with friends and get some exercise. It leaves the family little time to do anything together except stress. If she ends up a fat, sick little ball of stress by 10, then what right does society have to complain or criticize? All because her teachers decide that she needs to be ahead of some other stressed kids in some other country. Give me a break. There are more important areas of 'education' than just the book learning.

How about educating teachers on the importance of family life? The necessity of time for one's sanity?

Piling the homework on a grade 2'er doesn't teach them a damn thing about time management. It doesn't make them smarter. It makes them more tired and more stressed, and more fed up with school than any generation before them.

I've sent notes to school saying, flat out 'NO' to some of the homework that comes home.

*sigh*
 
Praxius
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

There should definitely be limits put upon the homework burden.

That, or people better shut the ___ up about the obesity epidemic.

One or the other, but we don't get it both ways.

If my grade two kid has to spend almost 2 hours a night doing homework, that leaves her no time to go out with friends and get some exercise. It leaves the family little time to do anything together except stress. If she ends up a fat, sick little ball of stress by 10, then what right does society have to complain or criticize? All because her teachers decide that she needs to be ahead of some other stressed kids in some other country. Give me a break. There are more important areas of 'education' than just the book learning.

How about educating teachers on the importance of family life? The necessity of time for one's sanity?

Piling the homework on a grade 2'er doesn't teach them a damn thing about time management. It doesn't make them smarter. It makes them more tired and more stressed, and more fed up with school than any generation before them.

I've sent notes to school saying, flat out 'NO' to some of the homework that comes home.

*sigh*

That's what I'm talking about and good for you to be doing that for your kids. When you think about the amount of time they spend waking up in the morning, getting ready for school, grabbing their lunches, heading on the bus or getting dropped off by parents as they head off to work, the time they spend throughout the day in school, then waiting after school to be picked up by their parents or to be driven home on the bus, then eat something quickly...... chances are it's already close to 7pm before they have a chance to crack open the hours of work issued to them for homework.

By the time they're done of their homework required to be finished for the next day, what time would it be on average? Usually well after 9pm. Does that give them time to go out and visit friends or just sit back and think for themselves for once? Nope... cuz now they have to get ready for bed for the next day of school and the next load of homework issued for the next night.

Their entire day revolves around the school and what is required of them for the next day. When I work, I go in, I do everything to the best of my ability during the time I am scheduled to work and when it's time to go home, I go home. I leave my work and any stress from that day behind at work. I'll be damned if I will ever take up some friggin job where they make me work all day, then hand be a bunch of crap to do after work on my own free time, then rush to get that all done, only to expect more the next day after work.

If that is how the company works and they require you to take work home afterwards, then the company is at fault and their management needs to be revamped. A properly functioning company who wants to be sucessful and have stressfree employees wouldn't need any extra time after their typical work day to get their work done. They either need to get their processes reviewed and optiminzed to save time during the day, or they need to hire more people for their workload so that it gets done on time.

Same with schools.... they either teach them properly what they need to learn during school time, or they need to look at what and how they are teaching these kids and why it's not working that they require homework every night.

Perhaps the reason why they have to issue homework all the time is because they're not getting what they are being taught easily during the school time. If they're not getting the information easily during school time, why is that? Possibly because they've spent their entire day the day before trying to absorb what they were told then and trying to keep that all in their heads. But why did they have a problem trying to absorb all that information from the day before? Possibly because they spent the entire day before that doing the exact same thing with all the information they're told to learn and finish the day before that..... and so on and so forth. Eventually, they're just not going to care or pay attention to the information and just highlight the main points from their books and fill them in when they can..... that's not learning.... that's just getting past what was given to you faster. I did this myself plenty of times.

Now sure, when you think of this in a work environment, it's proabably managible because you're employed to do one paticular thing each day in which you specialize in. But kids have their brains scattered all over the place as is, let alone throwing several classes of education on them each night to keep all in their heads all the time. I had 6-7 different classes each day I went to and learned from.... fair enough..... but then I have 6-7 sets of 30-60 mins of homework from each I had to continue working on afterwards..... thus I have to keep all that in my head constantly until I am done with my homework later that night.

No wonder why kids hate school. No wonder why I hated school so much. I bet that if I only dealt with it like a job, where I worked on things given to me only in the time I was there, then I might have enjoyed school more and I might have hung onto more of the information longer.

I just couldn't wait until I was out of school, from all the BS, from all the petty and useless assignments which had nothing to relate to the real world and from all the arseholes I went to school with. I don't remember very much from my time in school and besides the basics, none of it is useful for everyday life, and one could probably sum up an entire education time a kid goes through down to about 8 grades instead of 12 (Not including post secondary) But everything I am doing now, I didn't need 90% of the crap taught in high school, let alone the homework that came with it.

In a nut shell, the time spent on home work could be used for far better things in life.
 
Praxius
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Umm, I gotta disagree here. Maybe not all jobs require extra hours of work, for no pay. But many do. Better to get accustomed to that possibility, rather than have it sprung on you after your scholastics are finished.

One can be warned about this in 5 mins of explination and shouldn't require 12 years of continual BS to fill out after hours. Those companies as mentioned in the above post of mine are ill-equipped for their time management and are not optimized with their time available in the day and that is their fault, not the employee's. If the employee is just slow and lazy then that's a different subject.

But if I had to do the job I am doing now for 8 or more hours a day and then given 3 or 4 more hours of crap to do when I went home, someone would be shot..... but an easier solution would be me flying the hell off and living in the forest somewhere.... My life is the experience LIFE, not work my *** off until I die for someone else. If you feel that is what life is, go for it.... I'll decide for myself. I would much rather make up my own words and lessons to live by, rather then spend my entire life reading and doing what others tell me and dictate to me.... what the hell kind of life is that, seriously?

Quote:

What about University? Should we have no homework? The recommended amount of time to spend on work at home is something like ten hours per course, every week. That's on top of class time. I'm in four classes this semester. All told, that would be 62 hours including labs, lectures, and recommended readings/home work.Not all students spend that much time. I don't, I don't need to. But then again I'm not **** about chasing two donuts on my marks.

That is also why I went to college over university.... I compared the two and for the costs, the time wasted in both and everything.... I got the same level of education in my field for less money, in one year, with full hour days and the availability to go in after hours if need be.... compared to what my cousin went through.... spending a short period of time listening to some professor, doing countless hours of reading and writting, for four years or more..... not to mention there were days in the week where he had no classes (Time which could have been used for more teaching)

In the end, it was the hands-on education and experience in college I preferred over listening to someone lecture me and then issue me hours of friggin reading and writting on my own time. If I wanted to read pages and pages of information and have very little class time and interaction with an instructor or professor, I'd google the information and read it own my own, saving myself time and money. But to each their own.

Quote:

Besides the point, homework is valuable as independent learning. It is valuable, because not all jobs simply end as bankers hours do. I don't know for certain, but I suspect many bankers probably don't even work banker's hours. Sometimes a task has to be completed. There may be something which needs to be dealt with, and for some jobs, that means extra pay. For others it doesn't. Perhaps it's not fair. But that's life, such as it is.

If something needs to be done because it is behind schedule or something, fine.... heck I spend time afterwards once in a while doing that too. But when a job hands you a bunch of extra crap to do after work in which you should be doing it the next day, I have a problem with that and that is what homework is.

Quote:

I don't think society needs an excuse to be an lazier than we have already become.

Which came first? Egg or Chicken? Which has caused our society to be more lazy? Not enough to do, or too much to do to be bothered??
 
Tonington
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

One can be warned about this in 5 mins of explination and shouldn't require 12 years of continual BS to fill out after hours. Those companies as mentioned in the above post of mine are ill-equipped for their time management and are not optimized with their time available in the day and that is their fault, not the employee's. If the employee is just slow and lazy then that's a different subject.

12 years of BS? I don't know what it's like now, or what it was like for you in school, but my homework load was pretty light.

Quote:

But if I had to do the job I am doing now for 8 or more hours a day and then given 3 or 4 more hours of crap to do when I went home, someone would be shot..... but an easier solution would be me flying the hell off and living in the forest somewhere.... My life is the experience LIFE, not work my *** off until I die for someone else. If you feel that is what life is, go for it.... I'll decide for myself. I would much rather make up my own words and lessons to live by, rather then spend my entire life reading and doing what others tell me and dictate to me.... what the hell kind of life is that, seriously?

Must you always take things to the extreme? Working to death? Life is about a lot of things. Your profession is one part of it. Some jobs require tasks to be done, not for the employee to show up for 8 hours a day. If you can't work it out during the regular work hours, well sometimes you have to put in a little more. Like you said, if they don't like it, they can shove off.

Quote:

That is also why I went to college over university.... I compared the two and for the costs, the time wasted in both and everything.... I got the same level of education in my field for less money, in one year, with full hour days and the availability to go in after hours if need be.... compared to what my cousin went through.... spending a short period of time listening to some professor, doing countless hours of reading and writting, for four years or more..... not to mention there were days in the week where he had no classes (Time which could have been used for more teaching)

Time wasted? Education is never time wasted. You get out what you put in. You can go to classes, and do no other work and still pass. Or you can do extra and learn a little more. The days where you don't have classes are a fine time to read chapters, papers, etc. Or work on assignments and labs.

Quote:

In the end, it was the hands-on education and experience in college I preferred over listening to someone lecture me and then issue me hours of friggin reading and writting on my own time. If I wanted to read pages and pages of information and have very little class time and interaction with an instructor or professor, I'd google the information and read it own my own, saving myself time and money. But to each their own.

Read it on your own from the internet, or read the supplemental information in your text book. I do both. The lectures aren't just a regurgitation of the material. It's a time for the professor to go over some things in finer detail, and clarify any questions. Then of course there are the office hours, where you can consult with your professor one-on-one.

Quote:

If something needs to be done because it is behind schedule or something, fine.... heck I spend time afterwards once in a while doing that too. But when a job hands you a bunch of extra crap to do after work in which you should be doing it the next day, I have a problem with that and that is what homework is.

So, you're fine with catching up because it's behind schedule, but not fine when it's something that could be done the next day. So then, what happens when the school year runs out and there is still material to cover?

Quote:

Which came first? Egg or Chicken? Which has caused our society to be more lazy? Not enough to do, or too much to do to be bothered??

Chicken came first.

Neither. I'd say expectations have caused us to become more lazy.
 
cdn_bc_ca
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post

Speaking of mathimatical problems, besides adding, subtracting, muliplication, devision and some basic measurment study.... wtf is the point of all the other crap you're taught?

Calculus, Pre-Cal? If a boat leaves port at 6:01am at 34kmh to Boston and the water current shifts the angle of the boats direction by 3.245 degrees counter-clockwise.... what is the circumference of the hypotenuse of Pi if the water temprature decreases by X = or < then 24?

WTF? Give me the damn pipe, you smoked yourself retarded! Who gives a rats ***? It'll get there when it gets there.

I hope you don't work for NASA, because your Moon mission will end up to be a Jupiter mission instead... with a bunch of dead astronauts inside LOL.

Having kids of my own who are not in school yet, this thread peaked my interest. In terms of homework, I don't agree that kids should not get any homework at all. They should get at least some. Reason I say this is from past experience when I was at school... some kids fall asleep or don't pay attention in class. Ever heard of the term "In one ear, out the other?" Yep, I was a living example of that. So whatever you missed in class can be reviewed later on in the form of homework. Homework is also supposed to reinforce the concepts taught in class and extend the ideas to new areas that can be applied in the real world. (and no, I did not copy that last phrase somewhere out of a book or the web)

I used to live in a pretty bad area where homework was not really given out... Well, it was but nobody did it. As a result, kids didn't really have anything to do in their after school hours. This is a bad thing because a bunch of teenage male kids hanging around a public park with other groups of male kids from other schools leads to a pissing contest and bad things happen. Where I live now is a walk in the park compared to my childhood but still, every once in a while I read articles about kids breaking windows at the a local school or groups of kids beating up other kids or elderly people. WTF? And we want these kids to have the ability to make critical decisions on their own?

What I've learned from friends, neighbors and coworkers with much older kids than mine, is the rule that you must always keep your kids busy with something to do. Be it sports, homework, hobbies, whatever. As long as their busy and they like what their doing. As soon as you let them loose doing whatever they want whenever they want it is a recipe for disaster. That's the advice I'm going with... unless you have some better ones?

And as for the discussion on 8 hours work and having to do extra after work, well, I'm guessing you don't have a job with any form of responsibility yet.

To the poster that pointed out the correlation between obesity and homework, think again. Take a tour of Japan and China and let me know how many obese Asian kids there are in their schools... you will probably notice what I've noticed, very little obese anything.... and they do way more homework than the kids over here. Do you think it could be a result of what they eat?
Last edited by cdn_bc_ca; Apr 7th, 2008 at 04:36 PM..
 
karrie
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by cdn_bc_caView Post

To the poster that pointed out the correlation between obesity and homework, think again. Take a tour of Japan and China and let me know how many obese Asian kids there are in their schools... you will probably notice what I've noticed, very little obese anything.... and they do way more homework than the kids over here. Do you think it could be a result of what they eat?

My kids don't live in any of the Asian countries. My kids live here, eat here. I never said kids in any other country are obese, but HERE they're pushing for more physical activity in our children (and rightly so), and crying about an obesity epidemic. So, when my kids are left with a mere one hour to ride bikes or bounce on the trampoline, and they are only 6 and 8 years old, how much time will they be left with for physical activity once they are older and get even more homework? They'll hit their teens and have no time for extra curricular sports, let alone a walk around the block at the rate they're going.
 
cdn_bc_ca
#24
I know, but what I'm saying is that how can your kids get fat from doing homework when kids in Asia do *more* homework and are thin. I don't know maybe it's the diet (the fries and hamburger) or maybe because they promote physical education which schools here seem to cut back on.
 
karrie
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by cdn_bc_caView Post

I know, but what I'm saying is that how can your kids get fat from doing homework when kids in Asia do *more* homework and are thin. I don't know maybe it's the diet (the fries and hamburger) or maybe because they promote physical education which schools here seem to cut back on.

You're trying to argue that homework isn't cutting into my kids' exercise time based on the fact that Asian kids are skinny. Stop and think about that. The size of Asian kids has nothing to do with the schedules of Albertan children.
 
cdn_bc_ca
#26
okay, let's drop the asian thing for a minute. I've done homework all my life and I'm not fat... my sisters have done way more homework than I have and they're not fat. As a matter of fact, I'm looking around my office right now and I'm pretty sure they've done way more homework than I have (seeing as how they are all engineers), and they are not fat. So let's face it, your kids got problems and converting the 2 hour homework time into play time isn't going to solve it.
 
karrie
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by cdn_bc_caView Post

okay, let's drop the asian thing for a minute. I've done homework all my life and I'm not fat... my sisters have done way more homework than I have and they're not fat. As a matter of fact, I'm looking around my office right now and I'm pretty sure they've done way more homework than I have (seeing as how they are all engineers), and they are not fat. So let's face it, your kids got problems and converting the 2 hour homework time into play time isn't going to solve it.

? What do you mean my kids have problems? I think you need to go re-read.
 
darkbeaver
#28
Homework is the beginning of conditioning where the little ones drag the machine back to the home and the system starts to eat into the life of the child and he/she becomes a budding consumer. If you find something you love to do it can become your work, your work many times is what you live for and love to do, that's not the same as a job. Homework as a rule should not be made a job for children, thier developement is actually impeded by it. IMO For me homework was an ordeal, I wanted to run and play outside.
 
faithlessforeve
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by cdn_bc_caView Post

I know, but what I'm saying is that how can your kids get fat from doing homework when kids in Asia do *more* homework and are thin. I don't know maybe it's the diet (the fries and hamburger) or maybe because they promote physical education which schools here seem to cut back on.

IT's been four months since I have returned from Korea after teaching middle school kids for a year. The kids were overwelmed with homework, not just from their regular school hours but also from the hagwon (private school) where I taught . The majority of these kids had no time for anything but study. I saw so much stress and apathy in class. One of the students committed suicide. She was 15 years old. The only "fat" kids I saw were the ones who frequented Macdonalds, KFC or Dunkin Dougnuts. The majority of the students were slim because of the traditional Korean diet which is rice, noodles and lots of vegetables. I always tried to scare my students about eating the fast foods; sometimes exaggerating about its ill effects. In my class, the students had alot of downtime; if they didn't do their homework they were suppose to go to detention for an hour and a half. I actually watched one young girl go crazy in my class; laughing and rocking back and forth when homework was assigned. I didn't follow the rules because I wanted my students to enjoy learning english not hating it. I think too much homework is insane. What is too much homework? Just look at your students behaviour...use your common sense.
 
Praxius
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

12 years of BS? I don't know what it's like now, or what it was like for you in school, but my homework load was pretty light.

The pickup of homework load started in the last two or so years of when I went to school and from what I have seen and read, it has gotten a lot more since.

Quote:

Must you always take things to the extreme?

Yes, yes I do.

Quote:

Working to death?

AKA: working all the time, all the hours you can, taking things home just so you can get that petty raise or promotion, or to cover the bills you are barely making by with.... in order to do anything, you are constantly worrying about what you need to do for work first and other life situations secondary to that. Before you know it, you're 65, retired and now looking back on your life seeing that you spent most of it working and paying off bills, hardly having opportunity to see different places in the world, or doing some of the things you always considdered you could do later.... finding now you're running out of years to do it all or just too old to do them now and it's too late. "That's what I considder working to death."

Quote:

Life is about a lot of things. Your profession is one part of it. Some jobs require tasks to be done, not for the employee to show up for 8 hours a day. If you can't work it out during the regular work hours, well sometimes you have to put in a little more. Like you said, if they don't like it, they can shove off.

Then it goes back to the homework situation and how some people call it a reference to real world work.... which it isn't. I have no problem staying a few hours after work to get something done if something unexpected occured to delay its production, but besides that, I the hours I signed to at the salery I am paid to..... there is no record or place for me to mark down any of the extra hours I take to get something done, I just do it.... but that also means I am not getting any bonus or additional pay for that overtime used, because there is no record of it. Also, the other aspect of the company starting to take you for granted when you do stay later more and more.... they will start to throw more at you to fill up that time and get some more work done for free, at your expense.... AKA: Back to the Homework reference in school. Unless you work for a company who treats you like this, to get more work done on your own time on an everyday basis and is always expected to be done or face penalties, then homework isn't a proper reference to real world work. And if you work for a company like that, then I feel sorry for you, no offense.

Quote:

Time wasted?

For the most part, yes.

Quote:

Education is never time wasted. You get out what you put in. You can go to classes, and do no other work and still pass. Or you can do extra and learn a little more. The days where you don't have classes are a fine time to read chapters, papers, etc. Or work on assignments and labs.

Yes, by your choice and by your interest alone, not to be forced by others because it is expected of you to. There was very little in school which I can relate or link to what I have been doing for a job for the last 10 years or so of my life. What has however, was the things I did take time on my own to learn over the years in which school didn't teach me. In other words I could have used the time in school to focus more into the field of work I was interested in, but school wasn't like that, therefore the time I spent in school was a waste of time overall.

Quote:

Read it on your own from the internet, or read the supplemental information in your text book. I do both. The lectures aren't just a regurgitation of the material. It's a time for the professor to go over some things in finer detail, and clarify any questions. Then of course there are the office hours, where you can consult with your professor one-on-one.

Fair enough... I do this now.... but by my choice, not because of someone else's choice and expectations... that's the difference. If you choose to spend the extra time beyond your signed contract's statements of daily time spent working, then that should be considdered a bonus of having you employed by the company and should be rewarded as such (Which most companies currently do) but it shouldn't be expected of you in order to keep your job.

Quote:

So, you're fine with catching up because it's behind schedule, but not fine when it's something that could be done the next day.

Yes, if it's an emergency or due to something screwing up like a machine or what not, sure.... but not when it is a regular basis thing where you are expected to get things done, just for the sake of getting it done faster, thereby the company getting some free work off of you on a regular basis. Eventually if you bend and allow this to happen all the time... once you voice that you're wearing out and not having enough time to do other things in life, then they will begin to think you are no longer worth as much as you already are. I've worked in a few companies like this and most based their reasoning on the lack of knowlege you have on your rights.

Quote:

So then, what happens when the school year runs out and there is still material to cover?

extend the year or cut down the the amount of work you are trying to squeeze in through the year and carry it over into the following year..... but keep it on a regular daily schedule and keep it in the school time. If they're going to continue piling the homework on you to do before the next day, then why not just extend the school day by 3 or 4 more hours and isolate that specifically to the homework.... then send them home at around 6 or 7pm.

Sounds silly doesn't it? Well that's exactly what is going on right now, but the only difference is that you're sitting in your room or at your desk at home doing this exact same thing every night, not being able to do anything else until you have your regular list of homework completed for the next day.

Quote:

Chicken came first.

Neither. I'd say expectations have caused us to become more lazy.

Ah ha! There's the word I was waiting for.... "Expectations" ~ Expectations have caused us to become more lazy.

Why would expectations make us more lazy? If you are expected to do more all the time, then you become over burdened mentally and then you become more lazy in other things because you spent the rest of your time trying to meet the higher amount of expectations.... "Too much to do to be bothered." Mental and physical exaustion go hand in hand. If you spent all your day during your free time to finish homework or some work the boss passed off on you after work, then when that is done you still want time for yourself.... time to think.... time to relax from the pile of stuff you have been doing all day already. So you sit down, grab a beer, watch some TV or play around on the computer, because it's quicker and easier then to head out and do something else during the little time you have left before you have to goto bed for the next day of work/school.

One day here and there having to spend your personal time on something relating to school or work I don't have a beef with... that should be expected as is... but when it comes to be expected of you every single day of your work/school week and in the end of the day you only have 2 or 3 hours to yourself before you have to rest for the next day, that eventually exausts yourself mentally and then soon enough, physically on top of that.... you then become more stressed, more lazy and then before you know it.... you're loaded up on anti depressants because you're always stressed, that you're not getting your proper sleep, that you are constantly dwelling on things that need to be done.... never relaxing.

It all goes hand in hand.... over worked, over stressed, thrown on pills to counter it because you're told it's "normal" so that you can continue like a zombie doing the same things over and over again... masking your problems and not facing them. You then get lazy, fat, still stressed, and nothing ever seems right. I know I myself have gone through this same BS.... and really.... they may say living/working like this is just normal and to suck it up, but is being loaded up with pills to counter what follows those problems also "Normal?"

When you have to take pills on an everyday basis just to get you through your day, there isn't just something wrong with you (Allowing yourself to be put in that position) there is something wrong with the life around you to bring you to this stage in your life and the pills only make you not care about those problems, yet the problems still exist.

We are conditioned to give most of our lives and mental/physical health to "Contribute to Society" to pay our bills, to live the life we have been dictated to live as the "Norm" to have a wife/husband and 2.5 kids and a house, with a car, because after all.... that's what happiness is.... or so we're told. We're here on this planet to experience everything there is on this planet and in this life to experience and learn from, and when 80% of each day is taken up to suit other's needs, then you're not really experiencing life for yourself, but sacraficing your life and your time so that other people can have more time for themselves to do what they want, all the while your life passes you by, doing the same redundant job day in and day out so that you can have some crappy retirement plan that just gets you by when you're older so you no longer have to work.... not enough money to go do the things you wanted, not enough youth and energy to make those things happen because it's all be used up over the years to get to where you are, and then in the end, you realize that due to inflation and increased living expenses, you still have to work to make it by and then you in a sense "Work to death."

Screw that.
 

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