Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington
So, it wasn't that bad in say grade 3?
In comparison to today or when I hit grade 12, no. It was a gradual increase over time, and I doubt there was anything from then until now to change that pattern.
Was it really 12 years of BS?
Did I not just say that? Yes.
If a student is having problems learning the basics of reading or grammar, is extra tutoring BS?
No, because that would be by their choice if they feel they need it.... or if the parents think they need it. I went through this as well as a kid, in grade 3 actually, since you picked that one out. But my toutoring was within school hours.
So, maybe then you're taking this whole subject to extremes then, and it really isn't as bad as you're making it out to be?
I would suggest you avoid jumping the gun before you get the answers to your above questions.... yes it is as bad as I am making out to be.... once again, I've been employed multiple times as an instructor, toutor, student rep, and computer class monitor after hours.... I have first hand knowlege of what students both in school and college/university are going through today, as well as what I was issued after hours while working those same jobs.... so yes, based on an educated and informed opinion, it is that bad.
Again, more extremes. You're assuming that all workers put in extra hours for more pay, or are chasing promotions.
No, you are not reading properly and attempting to generalize what I have not generalized. You tried to generalize what I meant by "Working to Death" ~ I explained what I viewed "Working to Death" as... if you follow along the description stated previously then it applies to you. If not, then disregard but understand the explination being presented.
I did not say all workers, I laid out a basic situation which would fall under my explaination for your better understanding, nothing more.
Apparently you did not understand it properly.
Do you know any teachers? My mother is a teacher, and she works hours after school, and at home, and her salary is set. Do you think they should cut class time so a teacher can complete assessments and report cards?
Oh wow, as mentioned before my father is a teacher too since '74 and is the rep for his district in the NSTU.... shall we continue this pissing contest?
Do I know any teachers?
Myself on and off.....
All the teachers from my school and the colleges I went to whom I visited and interacted with over the years outside of a learning environment..... shall I keep going?
How about the staying in after school you mentioned and the possibility of cutting the day hours so they can work?
1st off, every student in my school got out at a set time, the teachers usually left aprox an hour afterwards.... as did I, since I went home with my father. Teacher's hours are different from student's hours. Having a mother as a teacher I figured you would know this.
You're using an anecdote here that isn't representative at all of 'real world work'.
Not all jobs are like yours.
No they are not, or else I wouldn't have much to talk about now would I, let alone to complain about? I am basing my explainations and understanding from my own personal experiences and experiences presented to me over time from others.
Not all classes give out homework assignments. Some teachers will give you extra credit for time spent above and beyond curriculum. If you want to stay at your position in your company, do what they ask and no more. If you want a little more, do a little more. But some jobs will require that, just as some classes do. Seems like a good parallel to me.
By law, jobs are not supposed to require that nor expect it. There is a labour board and laws to follow for a reason. As an example, my supervisor can not tell me the reason why I did not get a raise was because I wouldn't sacrafice additional time after my scheduled time per day for something that could be easily done the next day. You can do it by choice and the employer can see you put this through and might help you get some type of promotion, but it should not be expected of you to do this, let alone forced apon you to do so.
HOURS OF WORK
This does not apply to all jobs, and I already explained that I am aware of this, but there is a set guide for most companies to follow which is laid out here.
As an example, my mother is a nurse. She works 12 hours everyday for a week and then has an entire week off, then repeats that routine. Basically in a nut shell, you work what you signed and agreed to in your contract when your employment began. Anything beyond what you agreed to should not be expected or forced apon you.
Some companies do not follow all of what is shown in the above link, some do.... I made my personal decision to avoid suck hole companies like that, and thus in school, I should have the option to avoid being expected or forced to do homework, when I feel I have more important and better things to do.
And when it comes to trying to relate school to real life work, it's got nothing to do with work besides the time you spend in one location. They don't teach you what you need to know in a fast food job, or at Canadian Tire, nor do they tell you what to expect in some factory.... and that's where they should focus the training in school, since most students who graduate today can't get any better then the above anyways unless they goto college/university. What needs to be done is a complete revamp of the schooling structure to focus more on what children are interested in at a young age and help encourage those interests in specific courses that better suit them for what they want to do later on in life.
I will stay after hours if I decide I should, but I will not be threatened or forced into doing so because the company wants a few extra free hours of work... plain and simple. I have gone through too many screw ball companies like that.... and in those examples is what I am referring to.
Everyday basis is a strawman.
I'm a university student.
Once again, learn to read what is being said. Think of it like computer code:
you work for a company like the above > Then Do
You do not work for a company like the above, therefore you don't.... hince the comments made by me previously do not apply to you..... carry on.
No assumption was made, but a generic comment made based on the supplied text via me.
So, all of the knowledge you use now at work is tacit knowledge learned outside of studies? I find that hard to believe.
Of course you would, because #1 You're still not reading properly and #2 I never said that.
I said besides the basic education of math (adding/subtracting/multiplication/division and measurements) and engligh/reading, it's all been a waste of time. Have I not been clear about this enough?
Maybe you don't see the value in mathematics, maybe because your teachers never taught you the value in recognizing patterns. That's the best thing math has helped me with, besides the knowledge I now use in my classes.
Once again.... keep up with what is being said.
Well, that's just the thing. Some jobs expect that of their employees. A salary isn't a wage. You're paid to do your job. Sometimes that means you finish your presentation at home, or whatever your job's description entails.
Whatever you sign into is what your job is.... anything you do above what it required is a bonus to the company you work for and may benifit you in the long run, nothing more, nothing less. As explained before countless times is that my beef are from companies who expect you to do this on a Regular Basis, beyond what you have originally agreed to.
Did you actually have regular homework every day? I didn't.
Yes, everyday I had on average and at least 4 classes which required homework to be done by the next day. Each classes homework was scheduled about 45 mins to an hours worth of work each night. Add that on top of the other things I listed that I attempted to do after school and subract the total available hours from what is left and you would notice I was losing available time to do the things I wanted to that I found personally interesting and wanted to learn from.
What's your solution, scrap all assignments, projects, and have your entire mark based on tests?
It may seem like a paradox, but tests aren't always the best method of testing subject knowledge. Personally, I'd love it if my marks were based 100% on tests. But I'm not in the norm here. Most people get very anxious over tests and that has a marked affect on performance, not to mention mental health.
So you too agree that everybody is different, with various interests and directions in which they wish to go in their lives. Therefore why is putting students into subjects that they may never use and/or throw them into some generic learning structure such as the existing one we know today?
What should be done is of a more hand's-on approach with learning. Teach them the things that are required to be taught in the day's time frame and rather then playing around with papers and tests, actually give the students an assignment which impliments what they learned in combination with what they personally would find interesting in applying it to something.
For an example... I am taught how to make 3D animated facial features (How to line up movement with sound, make it look like it's talking etc.) Now instead of repeating the exact same exercises that I learn in the past with a test, it was far more productive for our class to take what we learned and to create something new and original to show that we didn't just learn how to copy something, but we also knew how to apply it to various projects, thereby expressing that they (I) learned what we were supposed to learn.
The main problem I had with math and why I hated it so much, was that nothing was made to relate to real life example or experiences that I or anybody else could relate to. If there was something that did or could be related to everyday life or work, then they should make an assignment to use that teaching with something like taxes, or through something else brought about through class discussion that the collective can at least agree apon being logical for their best ability to learn.
This already happens in some classes, in some schools, by some teachers, but for the most part, there is very little interaction between student and teacher besides dictation.
I think you and I are thinking of expectations in different ways. I think people are increasingly expecting things to be more favourable for them, like entitlement. It's a more for less mentality. I don't think we should have a Dollar Store style education system.
Expectations go both ways. I'm not talking about trying to give students some slack so they can be lazy, I am talking about going about teaching them in a more productive and time effecient way. If there is a concern towards the level of homework issued out on a daily basis and the question of the actual effectiveness of homework comes about by a decent % of parents and others interested in the subject, then logically one would look more into the issue and see if homework is in fact worthwhile.... or could something better be done during that time to help them learn.
Are you expected to do more all the time?
companies and work places here in Nova Scotia, due to the lack of employment opportunities and the high concentration of university students being pumped out every year..... Yes.
If so how do you deal with that?
I first brought my concerns to my employers as proper and politely as possible. They in turn would normally give you the buddy buddy speech and understand your frustrations and stresses and then claim that things will improve now that they are aware, only for it to go right back to the way things were a week or so later.
By that time I would give them all the finger, tell them to shove their job right up their asses and to take a good long hard suck on my wang and a flying fok into a cactus, then look for another job. Based on the limited amount I was being paid in each case, and the workload that was given to me (which in several companies was the workload of two GD's) and then ask for more additional time afterwards to be spent when they should have had another GD in the first place to balance the workload, but they're too damn cheap, I can not tolerate people who just come fresh out of college/university, whom are so damn green that they will suck it up and do what they push on them just so they can get "Work Experience" ~ When in the end they're screwing everybody else in the industry for their rightful pays and benifits because most do not know their worker's rights.
Perhaps it's just due to where I live and how companies work... maybe it's different where you live *shrugs*
I'm not sure how much homework you had, which is why I asked, but I always had time to do more. I played on school teams, league teams in baseball, basketball, hockey and soccer. I was a Boy Scout. I was an Air Cadet. I had girlfriends for most of my high school years.
Explained in previous posts.
Now in university, I'm spending more time learning other things that interest me, on top of my studies. I don't leave lab class when the objectives are finished, I stay and help my lab instructor clean up the labs, disinfect the gear, and then chat it up for a bit. I get emails from him all the time for people in industry looking for good people, and he sends me the information. I could do only enough to finish my objectives for that lab, but I don't. It's not required, but long ago I learned the value of putting in more than the required effort. Maybe that's where the 110% saying comes from. I don't know.
And see while I was in college, I did my project, stayed in after hours until 10pm or later to add more to them to make them better, was the Student Rep, I tutored other students that didn't quite understand what was going on.... I sacraficed my personal time by choice, much as you described. The Key here in what I am trying to explain is By Choice... not By Expected.
You can expect someone to stay in class or at work for the entire time they agreed to, to expect them to learn and study what is given to them during the day to work on, to expect that they will hand in assignments and projects on time when due and to be done well....... but you can not add more expectations on top of what was already agreed to that are not in contracts and then penalize that person who did not meet those additional expectations. That's where I'm trying to get at.
There was 24 hour access to the college I went to for student to come in and work on their projects on their own time for as long as they wanted... hell they could stay there until the sun rose and continue through the next day. Some people never bothered to come back after hours for whatever reasons (Work, kids, etc.) and yet, they still got their projects in on time and they were still good.
Once again, by choice. Currently students in school are forced to do the assigned homework each night or lose out on marks or grades because of it.
The rest of what you write is more of the same.
Of course, because you keep asking me the same questions.
Everyday, I don't believe that, and certainly not 2-3 hours.
Then don't believe me, I truly couldn't care less what you personally believe. You asked/commented I responded in kind based on what I know and experienced.
Certainly not 80% of your time for someone else.
When by the end of the day I had perhaps an hour and a half tops to myself.... hmmm.. nope, that's more like 93.5% of my 24 hours of a day being taken up. Give or take.
Did you learn what hyperbole is in school?
Did I truly care at the time? Nope....
You may think I am exaggerating in what I am typing, but I have no reason to exaggerate anything at this point, because no matter what changes occur in the future in regards to this topic, it will not have any affect on myself or anybody else that I know at the time being. I will not have any benifit from any of this or from me possibly exaggerating, nor is there any grounds for you to assume that I am exaggerating.
Considdering I gain nothing from exaggerating, explain to me exactly what logic would be required for you to believe that I am?
Perhaps because what I explain doesn't relate to what you have experienced yet in your life and to you it might seem a bit excessive?
Well sorry but welcome to reality... or what reality is in certain areas of the planet. My situation and the situations of many people I have encountered through the years are not absolute, nor do they trump anything anybody else has experienced..... but they did experience these things, I have experienced them, they exist and it is an issue for some..... parents and students alike. So therefore if it is a problem, should it not be addressed in a manner which can be suited to all parties involved?
That's all I'm asking.... didn't think it was a hard question.