Quote: Originally Posted by Chriskander
I have to note that this topic seems to have been lost in a series of ‘nyah, nyah, nyahs’.
What do you expect, Chris, when you are not here to keep us on the straight? I do my best, but I haven't been in the business long enough to know everything and avoid pitfalls.
Besides, I don't know the "nyah nyah" expression
What could have been an interesting debate about the possibility of Canadian forces becoming a prime target – clearly for political reasons – has been lost.
Thanks for constructive criticism... I feel my teacher's disappointment.... I'm guilty and hang my head!
Haven't the Canadian forces been the prime target for years already?
What do you mean with -for political reasons- ? I personally believe our political motivation is to be friends with the US. The Conservatives match the Republicans.... that was very clear under Mulroony. As neighbors to the US we almost have no other choice, if we want to live in peace. These points were already made at some earlier time in another thread.
The debate was not totally lost, yet. We would have come back to the main issue eventually.
It also clouds the possibility of relating the Afghan mission our troops are on to the pivotal elections in Pakistan.
connection I hadn't made yet, because I did not see a connection at this time.Could you elaborate a little? Please?
A day before the elections, the Pakistani military conducted another cease fire agreement and pull back in Waziristan with the Pushtun and Afghan opposition, thus giving them a free hand to prepare for the next Spring offensive in Helmand and Kandahar. If Canada’s area is being targeted already, how much worse can it become once the snow melts?
That I did not know! Would you have a link for that? What is
the connection to our troops?
IF what you are saying is what really happened, could I from that conclude that the Pakistani military, albeit no longer under Musharraf's command, favors the Taliban and their fight against the invaders, among them Canada?
It is understood that Pakistan is an ally to the US in the fight against terrorism. Then WHY does Pakistan aid the Taliban?
Must I by logic then think that the US doesn't want to end the fight yet? And why not? I have a clue, but would like to know your thinking in this matter.
It seems to me that Harper and Dion’s coming to an understanding on the Afghan mission, as well as all the blinkered opinions expressed here, are just so much rearranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic.
It is boldly obvious... you are a writer!! I wish it would flow out of me like that, too! I should read one of your books sometime to get the full joy of your writing talent!
The US government is making desperate attempts this week to maintain their so-called ‘war on terror’ at the expense of peace and democracy in Pakistan. If a Pakistani government, without Musharraf and the other bribed politicians, decides to focus on putting their own house in order instead of kowtowing to Bush/Cheney, the NATO Afghan mission is running on borrowed time.
What in particular is the US doing to hinder peace and democracy in Pakistan? I'm afraid I missed some news.
You are saying Musharraf and other politicians of his cabinet are being bribed by the US? How? With money?
In essence you are saying the US is not interested in having peace and democracy in Pakistan? BUT, Chris,... that is exactly what the US is always fighting for... peace and a democratic government in Afghanistan!!! They couldn't be saying one thing and doing the opposite, could they?
If Mrs. Bhutto hadn't been assassinated and would now have won the election, do you think she would be under the blanket with the US? She was after all pro Western!
As the kidnapping of Pakistan’s Afghan ambassador on the road to the Khyber Pass shows – there are plenty of people there who understand that closing off the NATO supply route to Afghanistan that goes through the pass – or even threatening it – gives Pakistan control over what policy is to be followed.
This is heavy stuff! The vanished ambassador.... I remember Mike Bryant
suggesting that he likely was paid to disappear, so it would look as if that region is very dangerous and the fight on terror has to continue. I thought that was a very plausible explanation. What do you think, Chris?
NATO supply comes from Pakistan? I didn't know that. By closing the passage or even only threatening to close it, Pakistan has the leverage to dictate the policy NATO should follow? What kind of policy are you thinking of? Not to destroy the poppy fields, or what else? I really don't know, have no idea.
Don’t forget that the Taliban government of 2001 was very largely a client of Pakistan’s intelligence service, ISI. The people in the area, who very loosely come under the name Taliban, may not be acceptable to us, but we are discussing their part of the world, and their actions speak louder than our words.
That is exactly my saying! We should mind our own business!
The idea that we will all be killed in our beds if we do not prevent the Islamists from having an independent government in Afghanistan would be laughable, if so many people in North America were not deluded by it. The comparison between the economic and political power of even one Western democracy to the whole of the Taliban and El Qaida shows that they can never be more than a nuisance. We magnify their reach through our own fear. Oh the angst! 19 rag-heads defeat the USA! Blown entirely out of proportion by the size of the US ego. Look at Dresden, Hiroshima, Nagasaki for what real war can do.
You hit the nail on the head with Dresden etc.
The success of the attacks on 9/11 can be laid at the feet of the incompetence of the Bush/Cheney administration rather than any great capability on the part of the suicide attackers. The prime enemy of Bin Laden, according to the latest reports, are the Saudi elite, who offend him by upholding US policies and grow rich from their partnership with Big Oil. The proposition that our Western way of life is imperiled by a heterogeneous group of Islamic terrorists is only valid insofar as Bush has subverted the whole US system by using them as an excuse. The enemy of our democratic way of life is us and our gullibility.
It is so refreshing and uplifting listening to you, Chris Kander! I wonder what Mr. Bush would say to you? But
,... you have to admit, the whole story has still an air of doubt about it.
I note that near the beginning of this thread Kolpy expressed a wish for more linear thought. That is the root of our failure to advance beyond stonewalling one another. I would suggest that the mess humanity has created over the past hundred years has been caused in part by too many blinkered individuals clinging to the reductionism of linear causality. The failure of linear thinking is to cast everything in terms of subjects and objects. The last fifty years has seen the rise of cybernetics, and general systems theory, that holds that all these actions are processes that flow, and where interactions between a multitude of factors feed back on one another. It is not realistic to reduce the complexity of a situation like today’s Afghanistan to one cause and one result. Every player is simultaneously a cause of the process and a victim of the results.
I leave this for Colpy
to respond to. It is over my head, I'm also getting tired!
The dynamic of having a foreign invasion of Afghanistan has been shown, most recently by the British Raj(you mean India) and the Russians, to result in a process that creates ever greater instability and resistance to the invaders. Following the same futile pattern will not produce a different result this time – the dynamic must change. Getting rid of the moron in Washington and sitting down to a conference with all parties will be the most productive way of breaking that pattern. It’s never been tried before.
I couldn't agree more heartily with you! Why doesn't that idea occur to the US? Makes one wonder!
Chris, I thank you very much for responding to us 'blinkers"!!
I really must find data and get him to come over here. Afghanistan is actually his specialty.
And... sorry, for taking so long to post my answer. Twice I was cut off from the internet... don't know why.