Death no deterrent to collecting student loans


Praxius
#1
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/sto...ent-loans.html

Quote:

The federal government is collecting thousands of dollars from student loans even after the borrower has died, new figures show.

Advocates of student loan reform say Ottawa should end the practice, which often results in collection agencies seeking to recoup the funds from grieving parents and family members.

"We don't believe the government should be harassing the parents and families and friends of dead student-loan borrowers for cash," said Julian Benedict, founder of the Coalition for Student Loan Fairness.

"We think it shows an indifference and a lack of respect for the dead."

A hundred accounts belonging to dead borrowers have been sent to the Canada Revenue Agency for collection since 2002, according to documents obtained by the coalition under Access to Information legislation.

The agency managed to collect $14,645.53 of the borrowed funds over the last six years, the figures show.

The practice is limited to funds borrowed under the "risk-shared" loan system between 1995 and 2000, when the government and banks jointly shared the risk of guaranteeing the loan.

That agreement ended in 2000 when the government began to directly finance all new student loans.

The government can collect on risk-shared loans if the borrower dies or becomes permanently disabled six months after the student completes their studies, according to Human Resources and Social Development Canada, which handles the student loan program.

That rule doesn't apply to funds borrowed under the current direct lending program, which forgives the loan if the borrower dies.

"This compassionate benefit helps to alleviate the financial burden on families already suffering from loss," Lesley Harmer, a spokeswoman for Monte Solberg, minister of Human Resources and Social Development Canada, wrote in an e-mail Sunday.

Between April 2003 and June 2007, 921 student loans with a total value of $6.5 million were forgiven due to the death of the borrower, she added.
Parents approached to pay debts

But the death of a student is usually sudden and unexpected, such as in a car accident, and typically results in no estate being left behind, Benedict said.

"What they're doing, in most cases, is collecting from the grieving parents," he said.

"We have received calls at the coalition from distraught parents and family members who are receiving calls from the government's collectors, trying to collect on the debts of their dead children."

Those calls prompted the coalition to seek more information about the practice, Benedict said.

There are provisions that allow the government to collect risk-shared loans from the dead student's estate within the first year, according to Human Resources and Social Development Canada.

Once the death has been verified, the collector contacts the student's estate in writing to "determine if there are any available funds to be applied towards the debt," said Canada Revenue Agency spokeswoman Catherine Jolicoeur.

Any income tax refund the dead student would obtain through their final tax return would also be applied toward the debt, she said. If there is still some money owed, the debt is then written off and all collection activity stops.

But Benedict, who has been aggressively lobbying for changes to the federal student loan program, wants the loan to automatically be forgiven if the borrower dies or is permanently disabled.
Calls from collection agencies

"In the two cases that we dealt with, there had been a car accident, and so there was a young person who had died unexpectedly," Benedict said.

"The family members involved couldn't understand why the government was prepared to continue calling them. In this case, it was collection agencies from Toronto that had been hired by the government."

The coalition is also calling on Ottawa to lower interest rates, ease restrictions for interest relief and appoint an ombudsman to help resolve disputes with borrowers.

Solberg has said the governing Conservatives intend to unveil changes to the Canada Student Loan Program in the spring budget.

What a pile of Scum they are.

They got the loans for obtaining their own personal education and to work in the field they were being trained in. They are now dead, their courses and loans are now useless and pose no real value, since they're dead.

If they can not use the education they got from loans due to death, then they shouldn't be able to keep hounding families to pay up for something they either never finished, or never had the opportunity to use.

You know, besides the simple fact that they're DEAD!

I have a personal hate on for the Student Loan system and those running it, ever since they screwed me over, screwed other members of my family over, and screwed over many I went to school with.... Now they're pulling this sick and twisted stunt?

They can all goto hell for all I care. It's pretty damn pathetic that they'd try and milk money out of the families of those who died. I know all about the contracts you sign where if you suicide then the family would be responsible for payments, but these are accidental cases and there wasn't much control over what happened..... they shouldn't be dragging families through this crap, nor should they be as sick and twisted as they are by hounding the families for their loans.... esspecially after having to pay off funerals etc.

I suggest any families or persons involved in this situation refuse payments and give them a flying finger f*ck into a cactus.

What are they going to do? Repossess their bodies from their graves and scoop what's left of their brains out so they can make sure they don't take that education with them?
 
darkbeaver
#2
There is nothing sacred to the scum bag bankers nor thier fascist political helpers.
 
Nuggler
#3
Relax Prasiux. Although it is a cheap and tawdy practise, if the parents aren't signed, they don't have to pay.

Trust the govt. to do some snakebelly sh!t like this.

The collected $14,000 and change?? Say what!! FOURTEEN THOUSAND is all they could do in six years. They should fire that collector.............

Not that I support the practise, but.........................inefficient or what!!

 
karrie
#4
I'd suggest that families read through thoroughly any loan agreement they sign their name to. These issues SHOULD be brought up when taking the loan out and cosigning for it. You don't borrow money EVER without doing estate planning and/or insurance on it. Do people not understand the way our financial systems work?
 
thomaska
#5
Anyone see the case in Spain where some guys killed a bicylist with his car, and is now suing the dead kid's parents for the damages to his car?
 
Tonington
#6
The Student Loans system is a royal pain in the @ss. Fortunately for me, my mother can afford to pay interest payments on a student line of credit. If she or I pass away, the loan is insured, and the other isn't stuck with the bill. I'll never use a Student Loan from the Government again. I work in Alberta during the summer, and any additional funds needed come from my line of credit. I have nothing but glowing reviews for this method of assistance.

I only wish I had thought of working in Alberta, where my father's family lives sooner in my studies. Oh well.
 
lone wolf
#7
They don't even honour their own debt forgiveness in the event of diability. All it takes is for one moron to hit the harassment button and they'll have you deep in hock and going through the whole process of proving a disability again. That's a neat trick when I applied and was forgiven nine years ago - and my doctor passed on last year!

Woof!
 
Niflmir
#8
The really amusing thing is that you can go to Germany where the education is paid for by the government - even if you are a foreigner!
 
darkbeaver
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

The really amusing thing is that you can go to Germany where the education is paid for by the government - even if you are a foreigner!

I think they value the youth of thier country and brains of the citizen, while we tolerate driving our future citizens into debt to serve the capitalist monster. Ours is easily the stupidest most barbaric educational system anyone could devise. Accross the board the slavery of debt is applied to younger and younger participants in the rigged lottery of the free market. Why don't we just come clean and sell children wholesale to the pricks?
 
karrie
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by NiflmirView Post

The really amusing thing is that you can go to Germany where the education is paid for by the government - even if you are a foreigner!

What's the success like on that Niflmir? Because here, the students I've seen who get a paid ride, be it government or parents, tend to waste a good portion of their time at college and university, and score much lower than those who are paying their way through.
 
faithlessforeve
#11
Where is here, Karrie? My first year, I wasted money and did poorly in University. I was not a very responsible student at the time. But one year suspension, and working in the food industry encouraged me to become more responsible (in studies). I am still irresponsible however; over ten years later and I haven't paid a dime back on my loans. Oh sure they have loan officers calling me; they even withheld my income tax refund. Fair enough. But the years have taught me so far that the government of Canada is totally corrupt; we have all read or heard how they lie, steal and cheat the taxpayer. I have learnt well.
 
lone wolf
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by faithlessforeveView Post

Where is here, Karrie? My first year, I wasted money and did poorly in University. I was not a very responsible student at the time. But one year suspension, and working in the food industry encouraged me to become more responsible (in studies). I am still irresponsible however; over ten years later and I haven't paid a dime back on my loans. Oh sure they have loan officers calling me; they even withheld my income tax refund. Fair enough. But the years have taught me so far that the government of Canada is totally corrupt; we have all read or heard how they lie, steal and cheat the taxpayer. I have learnt well.

Your tar is dripping onto me....

Woof!
 
karrie
#13
I'm in Alberta. Where are you at faithlessforeve?
 
faithlessforeve
#14
New Brunswick. Some of us here depended on loans to get through University. Over the last ten -15 years, many of us had to seek employment overseas after graduation. Some are still paying back their loans, some are not.
 
Tonington
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by faithlessforeveView Post

But the years have taught me so far that the government of Canada is totally corrupt; we have all read or heard how they lie, steal and cheat the taxpayer. I have learnt well.

Do you not consider yourself to be cheating taxpayers by refusing to repay them for funding your own education? The system only works if we repay the tax payers. It's not a coffer that we get to dip into without repaying. Take a penny, leave a penny.
 
faithlessforeve
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Do you not consider yourself to be cheating taxpayers by refusing to repay them for funding your own education? The system only works if we repay the tax payers. It's not a coffer that we get to dip into without repaying. Take a penny, leave a penny.

I do pay taxes. Everytime I make a purchase I pay very high taxes!!! Where those taxes go I don't know. IF you tell me it goes towards healthcare; then why did I pay $75.00 the last time I visited a health clinic here in N.B.?
 
Tonington
#17
Yes, but taxes go towards all sorts of things, not towards personal debt. A loan is just that, a loan. Meaning we have to pay it back. If people stopped paying student loans all together, I'm quite certain the program would end, and then those who do need assistance would have fewer options.
 
faithlessforeve
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Yes, but taxes go towards all sorts of things, not towards personal debt. A loan is just that, a loan. Meaning we have to pay it back. If people stopped paying student loans all together, I'm quite certain the program would end, and then those who do need assistance would have fewer options.

According to the topic, if I were to die tomorrow, the loan officers would still be calling my next of kin. I am not sure how the government justifies their actions, unless they truly are unaware that these people are dead. Who knows. But like I said before, I do pay my taxes, on purchases, and even income tax. IF one penny has gone into the loan coffer for every purchase I made throughout my lifetime, then I paid back half my loan.
 
karrie
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by faithlessforeveView Post

New Brunswick. Some of us here depended on loans to get through University. Over the last ten -15 years, many of us had to seek employment overseas after graduation. Some are still paying back their loans, some are not.

Plenty of people here depended on loans too faithless. that's paying your own way... or at least, it is when you intend to pay it back.
 
karrie
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by faithlessforeveView Post

According to the topic, if I were to die tomorrow, the loan officers would still be calling my next of kin.....

Only if they co-signed your loan. Which is what they agreed to by co-signing.
 
Walter
#21
They should go after all the deadbeats from the 60's and 70's who never paid back their loans.
 
Walter
#22
The government has every right to go after the estate of someone who owes them money.
 
DurkaDurka
#23
Walter, most students don't have estates or assets. Going after the parents who did not co-sign said loans is just vindictive.
 
faithlessforeve
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

Plenty of people here depended on loans too faithless. that's paying your own way... or at least, it is when you intend to pay it back.

Well, I am not dead yet. Maybe I will pay it back. But I doubt it. I had tried to negotiate with these loan officers upon completion of graduation. Right away I was harrassed and threatened...so I went to see a credit counsellor. I wanted to discuss my options. The counsellor advised me not to pay a penny back due to my financial position at the time. He explained that the interest would forever keep me in debt. I can understand why the government would still be after me, I am still alive and in debt to the government. But why is this faceless bureacracy after the dead? Funny how it becomes faceless after you borrow the money.
 
Tonington
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by faithlessforeveView Post

According to the topic, if I were to die tomorrow, the loan officers would still be calling my next of kin.

In that respect, you should strive to pay the bills back, so that your loved ones aren't stuck paying for your bills. The obligation is on the person applying for credit to read and understand the arrangement before signing the agreement.

Quote:

But like I said before, I do pay my taxes, on purchases, and even income tax. IF one penny has gone into the loan coffer for every purchase I made throughout my lifetime, then I paid back half my loan.

Those taxes pay for many things, common shared responsibility of all who use public infrastructure. Roads, health care, policing, education. Post-secondary education is not yet a universal. Until that time, you, and I as recipients of those loans must pay them back.
 
karrie
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

Walter, most students don't have estates or assets. Going after the parents who did not co-sign said loans is just vindictive.

Well, first of all, the article doesn't say the parents didn't co-sign. It discusses letters written to request money from the estates if there is any. That seems pretty reasonable. It also discusses the fact that the government changed the way they do loans (since 2000 if I read correctly) so that they no longer try to collect from an estate for a loan.

It doesn't really come off as big bad government to me. More as impractical borrowers.
 
faithlessforeve
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

In that respect, you should strive to pay the bills back, so that your loved ones aren't stuck paying for your bills. The obligation is on the person applying for credit to read and understand the arrangement before signing the agreement.



Those taxes pay for many things, common shared responsibility of all who use public infrastructure. Roads, health care, policing, education. Post-secondary education is not yet a universal. Until that time, you, and I as recipients of those loans must pay them back.

I agree with your post about shared responsibility. But, there are many programs that are not universal--that is, programs set up for "minorities". For example, if you have Indian Status you are eligible for free post- secondary education. Another example is The Status of
Women, not universal, also have helped women receive bursaries not provided to men. So you see, there are non universal programs funded to help others. Again, I am not saying that defaulting on my loan is right. But I am saying that I am not paying it back. That is all.
 
DurkaDurka
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by karrieView Post

Well, first of all, the article doesn't say the parents didn't co-sign. It discusses letters written to request money from the estates if there is any. That seems pretty reasonable. It also discusses the fact that the government changed the way they do loans (since 2000 if I read correctly) so that they no longer try to collect from an estate for a loan.

It doesn't really come off as big bad government to me. More as impractical borrowers.

Karrie, I am aware of "co-signers" not being mentioned in the article but with the way the government has been treating these families, you would almost think they were. The article seems to indicate that the government money collectors are going a little farther then trying to collect on an estate

""We don't believe the government should be harassing the parents and families and friends of dead student-loan borrowers for cash,""

"
Parents approached to pay debts"
 
karrie
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by DurkaDurkaView Post

Karrie, I am aware of "co-signers" not being mentioned in the article but with the way the government has been treating these families, you would almost think they were. The article seems to indicate that the government money collectors are going a little farther then trying to collect on an estate

""We don't believe the government should be harassing the parents and families and friends of dead student-loan borrowers for cash,""

"
Parents approached to pay debts"

The article doesn't really grab any reader interest without that one quote, which for all I know, since the article doesn't give any evidence of harassment beyond saying letters are sent asking if there are any estate funds (that counts as approaching parents), it could just be a personal interpretation on what these families are dealing with.

When my cousin died, his father got the same sorts of letters from creditors. The ones he co-signed for, he paid back. The ones he didn't, he didn't. It's pretty simple, and it's the way all loans are treated.

The fact that the government has changed the way they run these loans so that they won't need to do this anymore, speaks volumes, and it really comes across to me more as impractical borrowers than it does an evil or vindictive government.
 
darkbeaver
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

In that respect, you should strive to pay the bills back, so that your loved ones aren't stuck paying for your bills. The obligation is on the person applying for credit to read and understand the arrangement before signing the agreement.



Those taxes pay for many things, common shared responsibility of all who use public infrastructure. Roads, health care, policing, education. Post-secondary education is not yet a universal. Until that time, you, and I as recipients of those loans must pay them back.

Acctually much of the tax dollars are handed over to the private sector, the biggest payment being the interest owed on the national debt, much of the rest is siphoned off in subsidys deferred and preferential taxes, grants and loans directly to industry to entice thier business under the con of job creation, private education funded by the public purse and countless other forms of corporate welfare. All those uses for tax dollars you sited are valid public works used by corporations free of charge where they are not actually subject to tolls or P3 arrangements which again are funded with public taxes otr public credit, the national debt is 90% interest payments made to bankers, who logically know the debt will never be paid off.
 

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