US launches massive Iraq air raid


Praxius
#1


news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7180685.stm (external - login to view)



Quote:

US bombers and fighter jets have dropped 40,000lb (18,144kg) of bombs on suspected al-Qaeda targets on the edge of Baghdad in a 10-minute air strike.


The attack on the Arab Jabour district, said to be a safe haven for al-Qaeda in Iraq, was part of the wider Operation Phantom Phoenix launched on Tuesday.

Nine US soldiers have been killed since the start of the operation.

It comes as a World Health Organization survey says 151,000 Iraqis have died violently since the 2003 invasion.
The result is based on interviews with more than 9,000 families across Iraq carried out by the health ministry for the WHO, concentrating on the period from March 2003 until June 2006.


The US military said the air raids on Thursday were precision strikes on three large targets in Arab Jabour, a mostly rural area of palm trees and citrus groves.

A statement said a joint operation between the air and ground troops required "extensive planning to prevent collateral damage".

The BBC's Humphrey Hawksley in Baghdad said there was no word on casualties.

Not 'precise'

According to the WHO survey, more than half of all violent deaths between 2003 and 2006 were in Baghdad.

The survey authors say they are confident in the general level of accuracy of the answers they received because they had a high response rate, and because the answers from other questions in their survey were consistent with information they already had.

But the authors say 151,000 is not a precise figure, preferring to offer a range of between 104,000 and 223,000.

The best-known casualty tracker is the independent Iraq Body Count which counts only confirmed deaths. The toll it gave for up to June 2006 was under 50,000.
It now gives a range of 80,381 - 87,792

 
MikeyDB
#2
I wonder how many Jews are flying for their "ally" America?

No doubt the body-count for all the Jews killed in fighting the good fight of their American ally is far beyond anyone's imagination....

Good Ole U.S. of A..... Prepared to kill the enemies of the Jews and their own young people at the same time....brings a tear to one's eye...

Now I hope no one get's upset that Americans are fully behind sacrificing their wealth and their children for the "cause" of Israel. Hell Here in Canuckistan we have our federal police wearing turbans and it won't be long I'm sure before Stevie Hapless is sporting a yarmulke.
 
EagleSmack
#3
WOW. You're not even TRYING to hide your anti-semitism! Spoken like a true Aryan.
 
Northboy
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by PraxiusView Post



news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7180685.stm (external - login to view)


Boy, on the "Karma" side of things, the US is running up a sizable bill....It is going to come due sooner than they think....

You would have to do some serious convincing to prove to me that the US is actually capable of being a legitimate world power, that is the steward nation of the world....

Looks like the whole place should be put under summary administration and start from scratch (or thereabouts)....In the name of Peace....
 
MikeyDB
#5
Jews.....even the mention of these folk warrants an accusation of racism from our good American friends. Typical. What can you expect from a nation that's sold-out to the state of Israel?

Would the accusation of racism follow from a comment about Iraqis or Saudis...not likely. It's "OK" to criticize Arabs, but it's Anti-Semitism and "racist" to criticize Jews. All this time I thought you were an American Eagle...thanks for clearing that up.
 
darkbeaver
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDBView Post

I wonder how many Jews are flying for their "ally" America?

No doubt the body-count for all the Jews killed in fighting the good fight of their American ally is far beyond anyone's imagination....

Good Ole U.S. of A..... Prepared to kill the enemies of the Jews and their own young people at the same time....brings a tear to one's eye...

Now I hope no one get's upset that Americans are fully behind sacrificing their wealth and their children for the "cause" of Israel. Hell Here in Canuckistan we have our federal police wearing turbans and it won't be long I'm sure before Stevie Hapless is sporting a yarmulke.

What's more important is how many are not. This is where we part company Mickydb, your using a device that leads only to more and deadlier use of the same device, and offers no solution what ever. I'll condemn religion collectivly and advocate for it's eventual destruction without descrimination of colour race or specific religious peculiarity. You lesson your own good work by using thier weapons, of course there is great truth in what you say but it's a useless tool to rebuild the world. As for my federal police they'll wear clown suits and floppy shoes so we never forget what they really are.What someone wears is a concern of fashion and fad has no more to do with there brains than thier hat does. In the end all the western participants belong to the capitalist bankers, they know true currency when they see it.
 
MikeyDB
#7
Do the math Beve. Where have the Americans spent billions over the past sixty years? How many Camp David "round tables" and press coverage has been focused on Israel? Even after all this time and all that money..guess who America thinks even more wads of cash will enable them to live peacefully?

I have nothing but disdain for "believers" of all stripes Darkbeaver and if you think I'm any less critical of the Islamists who've done nothing to rid themselves of the hatred that's driving the many radical terrorists within that "faith", you're sadly mistaken. It's been typical of the great unwashed of America and Canada that any criticism of Jews or Israel is met with racist remarks, and what that proves is only that the great unwashed in their desire to entrench their own "beiliefs" that have spawned such wonderful things as Inquisitions and pedophlia among the ranks of the most revered..will rise to the occaision to identify this criticism as racist as opposed to reasoned criticality. Canadian Content is replete with many who for no reason that makes sense or can be elucidated through reasoned debate throw their "support" behind Israel and the Jewish faith. It's an oppressive regime that's running Israel and the manipulators aren't Arabs or Christians there Beve, and when the reaction that is recived when this truth is acknowledged says more about brain-washing and conditioning than anythin else.

Anglicans and Roman Catholics have put their energy into oppressing and exterminating native populations for hundreds of years. The message that the Iranian head of state is claimed to have spoken regarding the elimination of the state of Israel is no different than the practices of organized religions for these past decades. But because this "wipe them off the face of the earth" is leveled at the Jew and the state of Israel it gets far more broadcast play than does the same racist rehetoric of Evangelicals Baptists Anglicans Roman Catholics and every other scam-artist "belief" construct that bleeds our nations to death and leads everyone down the fantasy garden path.

Sorry Jews are exactly the same and aren't protected from criticism any more than those who'd sodomize our children, de-humanize women and de-construct native cultures all over the world employing any methods whatsoever to achieve this end.
 
Praxius
#8
Although this talk about Israel is kinda going off in some other direction then the original news article posted in post #1, but in regards to Iran's comments of wiping Israel off the map, it can not be taken literally as any kind of threat due to the simple translation of language.

Why, I could say I want the US wiped off the map, but that doesn't mean I'll be planning a nuclear or biological attack on the US or I plan on killing anybody. I referenced the country in name only. I didn't threaten the people at all.

It could be as simple as wanting the State of Israel abolished and a new deal reached with those currently living in what many around there considder "An Illegal State" to form a new state which everyone can somewhat agree apon, and territories are finally resolved.

But when someone who's kind of a hard ball and straight forward with what's on his mind, I suppose the Pres of Iran has a tendancy of making it sound like Iran wants to nuke them, which is also why Iran is going through some political trials on whether the country still wants him as president or not. Many in Iran actually oppose most of Amadimaidgidada's opinions because they bring unwanted attention to their nation and makes them sound evil.... and with Bush already trying to do that, it doesn't help things.
 
MikeyDB
#9
Praxius

Greetings!

Does it make any sense to rationalize a massive air strike against "terrorists" in or around Baghdad when the much vaunted American Air Farce bombed the bejeepers out of Afghanistan in their effort to kill Bin Laden and failed? Isn't it far more likely that Iraqi women and children were killed in the effort and is it likely that Iraqis or any Middle Eastern person will accept this strategy without hating America and Americans even more than they already do?

What is driving these "terrorists" (people who have swarmed into Iraq because America made that possible..) isn't the rational ordered cause/effect evaluation of ideologies or national foreign policies, it is fanaticism. A fanaticism that producing throngs of martyrs will simply reinforce. We have ideological and religious underpinnings that fuel the conflict and to that we add the destruction of more lives and more of what was once a reasonably well developed city and nation. Who's going to bat an eye the next time the Sears Tower in Chicago or Washington DC comes under "terrorist" attack? It won't we the thousands who watched as American aircraft created dozens if not hundreds of new orphans and destroyed more of that city...while "Reconstruction Teams" are the latest pap out of the mouth of the terrorist George Bush.

The only "break" in this sad story is that soon a new puppet of corporate America will be sitting in the Whitehouse and the impotent and largely disaffected Congress will continue to kowtow to whomever has the money.

It's absurd to entertain the shell game of Bush and the Israeli Prime Minister talking about bringing "peace" to the region while American bombers are cementing the hatred millions already feel for America and Israel. How does this action make any sense at all?
 
jimshort19
#10
Why are half the lines in the post bold and half not? This is not journalism, not even in format.

The airstrike described is not major. Who said it was? Are the pictures file photos?

The mixture of one news item, the strike, and a non-news item, long-contested casualty figures not caused by the strike, has an anti-war prejudice. A founded moral issue might be the number of innocent civilians killed by Americans, Iraqis, Al quaida and affiliates, etc, and if this data were available from a reliable source, that would be a news item that would not have to be tagged to a presidential event, or any other legitimate news story.

There will be new talk of casualties directly related to this strike, very soon and from more than one source. This article overstretched the news. Who knows the results of the strike? There may be civilian casualties. Given the murderous nature of the American enemy, it remains deemed to be counter-productive to turn the country back over to the Bathists or Alqaida. Many Americans remain convinced that they can do this thing, and they can, but they''ll have to kill for too long a time, and it won't fly politically for another two years at this rate of good news.

The Americans must have thouight they'd found a tidy batch of bastards or they wouldn't blow the orchard to kingdom come. My preliminary estimate of the collateral damage is zero. When this is claimed to be fact, someone here will say the whole thing was some kind of a setup, a fake. And maybe it was.
 
Colpy
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDBView Post

I wonder how many Jews are flying for their "ally" America?

No doubt the body-count for all the Jews killed in fighting the good fight of their American ally is far beyond anyone's imagination....

Good Ole U.S. of A..... Prepared to kill the enemies of the Jews and their own young people at the same time....brings a tear to one's eye...

Now I hope no one get's upset that Americans are fully behind sacrificing their wealth and their children for the "cause" of Israel. Hell Here in Canuckistan we have our federal police wearing turbans and it won't be long I'm sure before Stevie Hapless is sporting a yarmulke.

Ah....Excuse me?

The war in Iraq may have been in defense of America's oil interests, but I fail to see how it benefits Israel.......
 
#juan
#12
To the blind and the deaf:

The Americans invaded Iraq on a number of false premises.
Quote:

Saddam Hussein had Weapons of Mass Destruction that could be deployed in forty minutes.

Quote:

Saddam hussein was a threat to the "free world".

Quote:

Saddam Hussein was responsible for 9/11.

All of these stupid statement have long since been proven wrong. Shortly after the blatantly illegal and unprovoked invasion, the Pentagon started talking about "enemy insurgents". This term was soon used to describe any and all Iraqis who tried to defend their country against the invasion as if the resistance was a foreign army brought in from elsewhere.

The invasion and war has been one bloody great blunder after another. This latest BS about a precision bombing raid using forty thousand pounds of bombs is more BS.

Iraq's infrastructure has been destroyed. Iraq is finished as a country. Why are they still there?
Last edited by #juan; Jan 10th, 2008 at 02:53 PM..
 
darkbeaver
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDBView Post

Do the math Beve. Where have the Americans spent billions over the past sixty years? How many Camp David "round tables" and press coverage has been focused on Israel? Even after all this time and all that money..guess who America thinks even more wads of cash will enable them to live peacefully?
I have nothing but disdain for "believers" of all stripes Darkbeaver and if you think I'm any less critical of the Islamists who've done nothing to rid themselves of the hatred that's driving the many radical terrorists within that "faith", you're sadly mistaken. It's been typical of the great unwashed of America and Canada that any criticism of Jews or Israel is met with racist remarks, and what that proves is only that the great unwashed in their desire to entrench their own "beiliefs" that have spawned such wonderful things as Inquisitions and pedophlia among the ranks of the most revered..will rise to the occaision to identify this criticism as racist as opposed to reasoned criticality. Canadian Content is replete with many who for no reason that makes sense or can be elucidated through reasoned debate throw their "support" behind Israel and the Jewish faith. It's an oppressive regime that's running Israel and the manipulators aren't Arabs or Christians there Beve, and when the reaction that is recived when this truth is acknowledged says more about brain-washing and conditioning than anythin else.
Anglicans and Roman Catholics have put their...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
You crusty old basturd you know perfectly well what I'm getting at, for all thier sanctimoniuos babble about being Jews or Christians they are proveable not either, and by there own quaint little handbook supposedly chiseled in stone and delivered by god in person,
any violation of those ten simple rules strips them of the very classifications they purport to be the sentinals of. They have no credible claim to represent either god cult. The facts are clear enough it was men and only men who piloted the aircraft, to label them as Jews or Christians only lends ligitimacy to there rotten work when to have labeled them as Israeli or American or Canadian or capitalist pigs would have been easy and more importantly entirely correct.
Everyone of the cults you used in your above 99% correct post share in exactly the same crime they are exactly the same criminals my position is that when we single one out as they beg us to everyday, we work for them, if you want to drown a litter you put them all in the same bag and get the foul job done in it's entirety with one fling into the pond, if not you'll run out of bags before you run out of cultish kittens. Stop using the word"they" you're on this galley with the rest of us and your hands are working the same goddman set of oars that every other pathetic specimin in the western hemisphere is, and that includes me. Ahmen dog bless us all please leave the parking lot in a safe manner
 
darkbeaver
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

Ah....Excuse me?

The war in Iraq may have been in defense of America's oil interests, but I fail to see how it benefits Israel.......

You have consistantly "failed to see past" your own propiscus, one does not question in the least, this your latest failure. How ya feelin today Colpy, if you'd spend more time with your snotbox in a book instead of the refridgerator things would clear up considerably for you.
 
jimshort19
#15
Colpy, you fool. Isrealis love strife! That's why they blew up the World Trade Centre.

Now, does the photo given not depict a B-2 Bomber? Who can identify this aircraft type with certainty? The weapons used are as critical to the understanding of the nature of the attack as the numbers of them, and this picture is of a bomber - the heaviest stuff in the U.S. air arsenal, with the exception of the B-52. Or can the B-2 lift with the old heavy?
 
#juan
#16
The airplane is a B-1 B bomber

http://tinyurl.com/36qwp7
 
jimshort19
#17
The B1-B is a heavy bomber:
Three internal bays for 75,000 lb (34,000 kg) of ordnance.

The news story is of a 'major' attack. One aircraft half loaded is a major attack, or just plain innappropraite use of a $200 million dollar bomber? Something does not fit. Is it the 40,000 lbs of ordinance, or the aircraft type, and/or the number of aircraft? Given that the alleged fighters would not meet opposition, what were they fighting? In order to bomb they would require ordinance.

Given that an F-15 Eagle has 16,000 lbs of capacity under its wings, three of them would have obviated the need of a B-1B to drop 40,000 lbs. The story does not sound credible as presented. The perception of escalation by featuring the B!-B is surely not desirable. Is the B1-B in theatre? Back to juan. Nice picture. That's a supersonic strategic bomber, the successor to the B-52?
Last edited by jimshort19; Jan 10th, 2008 at 04:20 PM..Reason: forgot juan
 
Northboy
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by NorthboyView Post

Boy, on the "Karma" side of things, the US is running up a sizable bill....It is going to come due sooner than they think....

You would have to do some serious convincing to prove to me that the US is actually capable of being a legitimate world power, that is the steward nation of the world....

Looks like the whole place should be put under summary administration and start from scratch (or thereabouts)....In the name of Peace....

I would suggest that it would be in Canada's national interest to decree that no Canadian resources can be used to enable a pre-emptive strike or other military activity other than the defense of innocents....This is for our "Karma"....

Can we walk the walk????



Why???

Because as L. Cohen said in song; "Its over- it ain't going any further."
Last edited by Northboy; Jan 10th, 2008 at 04:28 PM..Reason: Add an inspiration (as received)
 
#juan
#19
Yes, there are lots of F-15s and F-16s in the area. Not to mention the F-14s and F-18s that are on the carriers. A half dozen of any of these could carry the 40,000 lbs of ordinance. None of this suggests a precision, surgical, strike.
 
Walter
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by NorthboyView Post

You would have to do some serious convincing to prove to me that the US is actually capable of being a legitimate world power, that is the steward nation of the world....

Are you voting in the states?
 
Walter
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDBView Post

Jews.....even the mention of these folk warrants an accusation of racism from our good American friends. Typical. What can you expect from a nation that's sold-out to the state of Israel?

Would the accusation of racism follow from a comment about Iraqis or Saudis...not likely. It's "OK" to criticize Arabs, but it's Anti-Semitism and "racist" to criticize Jews.

You're mistaken. I would have called you anti-semtic, too, but Eagle beat me too it, because you are naming Jews as your target of hatred, when in fact most Jews don't live in Isreal, and many Jews are opposed to the Iraqi war. You should focus your anger instead of using buckshot.
Last edited by Walter; Jan 10th, 2008 at 04:55 PM..
 
jimshort19
#22
Yahoo News, "After Thursday's fierce airstrikes, U.S. and Iraqi soldiers advanced through smoldering citrus groves into areas that were considered important al-Qaida enclaves around Arab Jabour, southeast of Baghdad. An Iraq officer said the soldiers discovered two houses used to torture kidnap victims and arrested at least 12 suspected insurgents.

The attack ocurred, 2 B!B bombers and fighter aircraft. The US used loudspeakers to clear the area of civilians. The B!B base was not specified. Casualties, not yet public.
 
darkbeaver
#23
Clearing the area of civilians would be inconsistant with what we know of the apparell of rebel and civilian alike. Are we to believe that only the civilians could hear the loadspeakers? No the tacticle assault on a civilian area requires actually killing civilians Jim they are the primary targets of this type of counterrevolutionary combat not real or imaginary insurgents Jim. Are you trying to make us believe the murdering air crews would leave anything usefull to the enemy such as houses barns animals women children food tools livestock, what kind of military stratagist are you anyway Jim? Terrible is my guess, that's why your not in the command center and have to do your bit here at Triple C ,your Waterloo.
 
Northboy
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by WalterView Post

Are you voting in the states?

Nope....

Is this relevant???
 
Walter
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by NorthboyView Post

Nope....

Is this relevant???

You wanted to be convinced, just like a voter.
 
jimshort19
#26
The Americans are niether so immoral or so desperate as you suggest. A few good men had to stop drinking many hours before the mission, just to be sober enough to bring the bomber back. Sacrifices were made by America. The men were not allowed to watch an in-flight movie during the entire mission because it would prevent sleep, and they want to keep their bombers fresh.

If I'm not mistaken, and I am kistaken only 50% of the time, the B1-B is based in the Continental United States. This mission also cost a lot of jet fuel.

The guys with the AK-47s do not run into the arms of the Americans when warned. Similarly, when George Bush told them that their cause was lost, they did not surreender. Your analysis goes further out on a limb of wishful thinking than mine, but my wishful limbs reach and hope for life, andn yours for death.

Casualty figures must be available soon, or the media hype is a joke.
 
Northboy
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by WalterView Post

You wanted to be convinced, just like a voter.

What do you actually think I personally want to be convinced of???
 
Walter
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by NorthboyView Post

What do you actually think I personally want to be convinced of???

Quoting Northboy (external - login to view) You would have to do some serious convincing to prove to me that the US is actually capable of being a legitimate world power, that is the steward nation of the world....
 
jimshort19
#29
Northboy, "You would have to do some serious convincing to prove to me that the US is actually capable of being a legitimate world power..."

This is the most clearly stupid denial of reality I've seen since...
 
MikeyDB
#30
Walter

Thanks for being at least civil with your slur...

If you're suggesting that statements credited to the American administration in support of waging war against Iraq which included the rationale that Saddam Hussein was rewarding Palestinians (money) for suicide attacks...are bogus, then I suppose we actually have an entirely different dynamic happening.... In some respects (and yes I'm reaching for this little nugget) Israel is the victim of western deal-makers. Deal makers who for reasons much more to do with domestic pressures (banks, manufacturing jobs, investment etc.) than any altruisim regarding a displaced tribe.... When as you've said, more Jews live in New York city than live in Israel, one has to consider what the impact of this situation means in the context of the championed willingness of the American political mandarins to throw billions into maintaining the balance of terror that is the Israeli Palestinian conflict.

As far as any "racism" is concerned, I attempted to clarify that perspective but will try again...

When a Palestinian child is convinced to bind C-4 around their waist and wade into a wedding reception or a restaurant and push the button to be with Allah, is it their understanding of old animositys, or is it that they've been promised reward from god to become the sword of retribution against the Jews? Not that there are many children left to begin with but the impetus to destroy is driven by belief, not by rational forethought.

When a people demand (and Britain and twelve other signatories to the famous UN resolution divide the territory) they be given "their land" back as reward for something or for recompense for what they interpret as abandonment at Auschwitz and Dachau does this "entitlement" come from a band of robust farmers looking for a place to call their own or does it come from "God Chosen People"..... When any people suggest that it's perfectly acceptable (to everyone except those who lost their orchards and farmland and access to fresh water and communities were destroyed...etc. etc. on the basis that god "meant" them to occupy Palestine, is that reasoning based on national pride or does it reside in exactly the same metric as that which inspired the child to visit the angels?

If it's appropriate for anyone to be labelled a racist for pointing out that what's driving Palestinian terrorists and Jewish terrorists is the very same thing that's driven Evangelicals and Roman Catholics and every other "religious sect" to prosecute torture slavery and divisiveness in the name of their beliefs...then yes I suppose I am a racist although it's a faulty use of that particular slur.
 

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