Africans are less intelligent than Westerners

Locutus

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Jun 18, 2007
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Intelligence is relative buddy. They designed and built the pyramids for one.



Fury at DNA pioneer's theory: Africans are less intelligent than Westerners

Celebrated scientist attacked for race comments: "All our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours - whereas all the testing says not really"

Story:

http://news.independent.co.uk/sci_tech/article3067222.ece
 

Niflmir

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Dec 18, 2006
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On the one hand you have people assuming that the effect is identically zero and on the other hand you have people who assume it is significantly not zero. Then there are pragmatists who would say, perhaps it is non-zero but the variance of the distribution clearly destroys the significance of it.

In any case, one has the freedom to express opinions and others have the freedom to ridicule them. Watch how you say some things.
 

Curiosity

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Jul 30, 2005
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Another Nobel Prize winner - at least his discovery was a worthy one - certainly not this theory however

The guy must be sniffing too many beakers of unknown substances.

Often age allows the deep-seated philosophies of a person - even if they have been well hidden for a lifetime - to emerge without inhibition. The man could have been a closet racist all his life but by our societal mores, only kept it to himself.
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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Curio....

When exactly can I expect this spontaneous metamorphosis to occur....:)
 

karrie

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Hmmm.... frankly, I see nothing wrong with his statement here.... "There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so."

Yet if he's right, we'll simply never know it, because the response to the asinine way he presented this issue is, " I am sure the scientific community will roundly reject what appear to be Dr Watson's personal prejudices.", "Anti-racism campaigners called for Dr Watson's remarks to be looked at in the context of racial hatred laws."

I wonder, if he had presented it strictly as a scientific theory, without pointing so specifically to his belief that black people are dumb, if he would have received any different reaction. I doubt it.

Even in Canada, trying to address the fact that First Nations people have higher instances of diabetes due to their genetic makeup being different, and more reactive to a European diet, met anger on this forum when the government put out a different Food Guide for the First Nations. People called it racist. Differences have to be ignored. Does it truly serve people well in the end to have racial genetics overlooked out of fear of being labeled a bigot? Imagine if the medical community had to start fearing this sort of backlash.
 
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gerryh

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Hmmm.... frankly, I see nothing wrong with his statement here.... "There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so."

Yet if he's right, we'll simply never know it, because the response to the asinine way he presented this issue is, " I am sure the scientific community will roundly reject what appear to be Dr Watson's personal prejudices.", "Anti-racism campaigners called for Dr Watson's remarks to be looked at in the context of racial hatred laws."

I wonder, if he had presented it strictly as a scientific theory, without pointing so specifically to his belief that black people are dumb, if he would have received any different reaction. I doubt it.

Even in Canada, trying to address the fact that First Nations people have higher instances of diabetes due to their genetic makeup being different, and more reactive to a European diet, met anger on this forum when the government put out a different Food Guide for the First Nations. People called it racist. Differences have to be ignored. Does it truly serve people well in the end to have racial genetics overlooked out of fear of being labeled a bigot? Imagine if the medical community had to start fearing this sort of backlash.


Give me a fricken brake:roll:.... There's a BIG difference between a populations genetic predisposition to disease and saying they're basically stupid. What's he comparing, a University Grad from a developed nation and a cattle herder from zimabwe that has never seen a book?

He claimed genes responsible for creating differences in human intelligence could be found within a decade.

So, in other words, the dumb a$$ has no proof of his assertions. This is all his "opinion".


Maybe someone should let these people and their progeny know that they are stupid.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmscientists1.html
 

karrie

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Like I said gerryh... saying they were stupid was, well, stupid. I think if a scientist has a theory, they need to present it properly, as a theory, and research it. Put it forth as a hypothesis, not an opinion. But even then, i don't think anyone would have tolerated him researching it.

And no, there's not really a big difference between genetic predisposition to intelligence or disease.


Give me a fricken brake:roll:.... There's a BIG difference between a populations genetic predisposition to disease and saying they're basically stupid. What's he comparing, a University Grad from a developed nation and a cattle herder from zimabwe that has never seen a book?



So, in other words, the dumb a$$ has no proof of his assertions. This is all his "opinion".


Maybe someone should let these people and their progeny know that they are stupid.

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/bhmscientists1.html
 

gerryh

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Like I said gerryh... saying they were stupid was, well, stupid. I think if a scientist has a theory, they need to present it properly, as a theory, and research it. Put it forth as a hypothesis, not an opinion. But even then, i don't think anyone would have tolerated him researching it.

And no, there's not really a big difference between genetic predisposition to intelligence or disease.


Like I said....someone wanna let those "black americans" know they are "genetically" stupid? I'm surprised they made it through any kind of school, let alone University.

and yes there is a difference Karrie dear.....one is a fact and the other is a rascists wet dream.
 

karrie

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someone putting forth a theory doesn't exactly create the need to run off and tell 'black americans' that they are stupid. Especially since an article regarding Africans being linked to 'black americans' is racist in and of itself, considering the wide variety of countries a black person in the US of Canada may have come from.

That quote of his I popped up... the one thing of his I couldn't find argument with, wouldn't necessarily imply stupidity anyhow. Being divided during such a large stage of evolution, could have created a wide variety of differing cognitive abilities in man kind. I'd be curious frankly to know if his theory (as quoted, not the stupid rambling about africans being dumb), holds any water upon rigorous research.

Like I said....someone wanna let those "black americans" know they are "genetically" stupid? I'm surprised they made it through any kind of school, let alone University.

and yes there is a difference Karrie dear.....one is a fact and the other is a rascists wet dream.
 

lone wolf

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Too many pople just can't grasp the difference between "book smart" and "street smart". It doesn't matter how much education you pump into the animal, the animal is still in there....

Wolf
 

karrie

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Too many pople just can't grasp the difference between "book smart" and "street smart". It doesn't matter how much education you pump into the animal, the animal is still in there....

Wolf

Well, one of the things that struck me is the pondering of, if you took a brilliant Uni grad, and dropped him in the middle of Africa, who would be 'smarter'... him or the Africans? Measuring intellect is a tricky issue.
 

gerryh

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Well, one of the things that struck me is the pondering of, if you took a brilliant Uni grad, and dropped him in the middle of Africa, who would be 'smarter'... him or the Africans? Measuring intellect is a tricky issue.


Gee...look at that....and no one had to drop an anvil on your head.
 

karrie

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Gee...look at that....and no one had to drop an anvil on your head.


It still doesn't change the fact that I think the statement of his I quoted makes some sense, and would be interesting to study.

I think it would be highly possible that many of the races that have lived off the land more recently than europeans, and still do live off the land in some areas, may have different cognitive potential. that evolution would have impacted more than our skin is an intriguing concept. Especially when you start looking into the idea of where the other strengths may have developed if there isn't the same 'European' idea of strength of intellect. And where do we fall short?
 

flutterby

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"There is no firm reason to anticipate that the intellectual capacities of peoples geographically separated in their evolution should prove to have evolved identically. Our wanting to reserve equal powers of reason as some universal heritage of humanity will not be enough to make it so."
there is also no firm reason to anticipate they wouldn't.
 

gerryh

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It still doesn't change the fact that I think the statement of his I quoted makes some sense, and would be interesting to study.

I think it would be highly possible that many of the races that have lived off the land more recently than europeans, and still do live off the land in some areas, may have different cognitive potential. that evolution would have impacted more than our skin is an intriguing concept. Especially when you start looking into the idea of where the other strengths may have developed if there isn't the same 'European' idea of strength of intellect. And where do we fall short?


Know what....this is a far cry from what the moron said.
 

karrie

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there is also no firm reason to anticipate they wouldn't.

Well, there have been proven perceptive differences found amongst different cultures. Africa serves as a great example, where some tribes were found to not be susceptible to certain optical illusions that Westerners are, and to not understand certain portrayals of three dimension in drawings. While this isn't an example of a hardwiring issue, but rather a matter of cultural exposure, it does go to show howdifferences in environment can impact the way we think. Given centuries of separate evolution, what could change? What could be different?

More importantly, is it responsible to ignore the possibility, just because some people use it as fodder for racist babbling?
 

Tonington

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Oct 27, 2006
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This isn't something new to Watson's studies. Here's an excerpt from Time magazine in 1970 on race and IQ:

Neither Watson nor Katz denies that intelligence is in part hereditary. They say only that until the science of genetics develops more precise instruments, there is no sure way to measure heredity's contribution to human intelligence. Consequently, hypotheses about the effect of race on intellect remain unproved
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,902708,00.html?iid=chix-sphere

I don't see why what Karrie is saying is so hard to grasp. The human groups would have developed skills unique to their circumstance, and there is no reason to be skeptical that certain cognitive abilities would be better suited for survival in different conditions, and therefore have greater allelic frequency. As Watson said, that will have to be dealt with. Although we have a mapped human genome, we are far from knowing what the map says.
 

karrie

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Know what....this is a far cry from what the moron said.

I did refer to the way he presented his ideas as asinine in my first post on the subject. lol. The one quote I took of his, I found to be a relatively interesting idea... the rest, racist babbling.