September 10th, 2007, 11:06 AM
Quoting coldstream
I find it much more likely that the depression and suicide/violence is a result of societal labels as deviants, being forced to keep your true self underground is never good for esteem or feelings of self-worth. Even today homosexuals face pressure you or I will never comprehend.
It's no surprise to me. Homosexuality has always encompassed a violent underground character. When people are so out of touch with their humanity and any state of grace.. and real love, reproduction, true family go to the very core of that.. it confuses all reasoning and leads to a lashing out at perceived tormentors. At best it leads to a formation of a rough husk and a retreat into oneself as a guard against the emotional usery that marks the social interactions of this phenomenon.. an artifice of personality is produced, far from their intended archetype.
The rates of suicide and depression for practicing homosexuals is many times the national average, as it is for violent incidence. Gratuitous gratification can exist in heterosexual relationships.. but ALWAYS defines homosexuality. The fact these 'gay defense militias' target groups whose main interest is in combatting the seed of their misery, rather than the politically correct position of 'celebrating' their sexuality, is simply a mark as to how devastating it is to their emotional well being and perception of themselves in the real world.
The rates of suicide and depression for practicing homosexuals is many times the national average, as it is for violent incidence. Gratuitous gratification can exist in heterosexual relationships.. but ALWAYS defines homosexuality. The fact these 'gay defense militias' target groups whose main interest is in combatting the seed of their misery, rather than the politically correct position of 'celebrating' their sexuality, is simply a mark as to how devastating it is to their emotional well being and perception of themselves in the real world.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 519 
September 10th, 2007, 12:07 PM
Ex-gay? that's hilarious.
Back in the closet is more like it, like these freaky Republicans that keep getting caught trying to buy sex in public bathrooms or take advantage of Congressional pages. Both Bob Allen in Florida and Larry Craig from Idaho were both publically anti-gay, makes you wonder about people who take that same position.
Ex-gay? that's hilarious.
Back in the closet is more like it, like these freaky Republicans that keep getting caught trying to buy sex in public bathrooms or take advantage of Congressional pages. Both Bob Allen in Florida and Larry Craig from Idaho were both publically anti-gay, makes you wonder about people who take that same position.
Member
Posts: 115
Location: Chillliwack, BC
Location: Chillliwack, BC
September 10th, 2007, 12:37 PM
The word provides no standard with which to guage its meaning, or analytical frame work from which to assess it prescription. It is a purely subjective term. It is a specious tool, meant to accredit large tracts of illogic which support its agenda with legitimacy. That is a definition of sophistry. In fact, its only function is as a buzz word to promote a political movement which is transforming our society.
'Self-esteem' has NOTHING to do with esteem or individuality, it is merely a way of imposing a philosophical convention, and stigmatizing all who oppose it. That might be fine if the its basic structure wasn't based on pure self-centred material gratification as motive in itself. The ultimate outcome of all this is unknown and likely will be cataclysmic.. not to mention the lives it is ruining.
Quoting Tonington
The word 'esteem'.. usually prefaced with the word 'self-' (or feelings of 'self worth'), is amongst the most nebulous and indistinct terms of new age psychology. It has been used to promote education, legal and social reforms in support of the radical forms of individualism (lacking any sense of responsibility) and relativism (where all EXCEPT the founding Christian principles of our civilization are given credence) that make up our 'post-modern' ethos.
I find it much more likely that the depression and suicide/violence is a result of societal labels as deviants, being forced to keep your true self underground is never good for esteem or feelings of self-worth. Even today homosexuals face pressure you or I will never comprehend.
The word provides no standard with which to guage its meaning, or analytical frame work from which to assess it prescription. It is a purely subjective term. It is a specious tool, meant to accredit large tracts of illogic which support its agenda with legitimacy. That is a definition of sophistry. In fact, its only function is as a buzz word to promote a political movement which is transforming our society.
'Self-esteem' has NOTHING to do with esteem or individuality, it is merely a way of imposing a philosophical convention, and stigmatizing all who oppose it. That might be fine if the its basic structure wasn't based on pure self-centred material gratification as motive in itself. The ultimate outcome of all this is unknown and likely will be cataclysmic.. not to mention the lives it is ruining.
September 10th, 2007, 12:57 PM
That exact same argument has been made throughout the decades by behaviorists, pertaining to MANY areas of the psychological field. Almost any internal experience is subject to your exact criticism. Yet respected scientists the world around have come to the unique conclusion that simply because the emotional experience isn't quantifiable, doesn't mean it should be written out of our field of concern.
That exact same argument has been made throughout the decades by behaviorists, pertaining to MANY areas of the psychological field. Almost any internal experience is subject to your exact criticism. Yet respected scientists the world around have come to the unique conclusion that simply because the emotional experience isn't quantifiable, doesn't mean it should be written out of our field of concern.
Steven Hawking's Hero
Posts: 6,445 
September 10th, 2007, 02:49 PM
Well you took a turn and kept on going right over the cliff.
You gave a dissertation on what your impression of the overworked layman's expression for self-esteem, giving an example of your opinion demonstrating you have completely missed some much needed research (by you) on the importance a human's sense of self worth actually is and how it guides that human through the maze of growth and adaptation to life's challenges. Not how that human appears to others but how that human is functioning autonomically from within.
When people use catchwords not realizing their intent and meaning - and worse mocking their own misinterpretations I invite them to do some legitimate reading up.
Quoting coldstream
Coldstream
The word 'esteem'.. usually prefaced with the word 'self-' (or feelings of 'self worth'), is amongst the most nebulous and indistinct terms of new age psychology. It has been used to promote education, legal and social reforms in support of the radical forms of individualism (lacking any sense of responsibility) and relativism (where all EXCEPT the founding Christian principles of our civilization are given credence) that make up our 'post-modern' ethos.
The word provides no standard with which to guage its meaning, or analytical frame work from which to assess it prescription. It is a purely subjective term. It is a specious tool, meant to accredit large tracts of illogic which support its agenda with legitimacy. That is a definition of sophistry. In fact, its only function is as a buzz word to promote a political movement which is transforming our society.
'Self-esteem' has NOTHING to do with esteem or individuality, it is merely a way of imposing a philosophical convention, and stigmatizing all who oppose it. That might be fine if the its basic structure wasn't based on pure self-centred material gratification as motive in itself. The ultimate outcome of all this is unknown and likely will be cataclysmic.. not to mention the lives it is ruining.
The word provides no standard with which to guage its meaning, or analytical frame work from which to assess it prescription. It is a purely subjective term. It is a specious tool, meant to accredit large tracts of illogic which support its agenda with legitimacy. That is a definition of sophistry. In fact, its only function is as a buzz word to promote a political movement which is transforming our society.
'Self-esteem' has NOTHING to do with esteem or individuality, it is merely a way of imposing a philosophical convention, and stigmatizing all who oppose it. That might be fine if the its basic structure wasn't based on pure self-centred material gratification as motive in itself. The ultimate outcome of all this is unknown and likely will be cataclysmic.. not to mention the lives it is ruining.
Well you took a turn and kept on going right over the cliff.
You gave a dissertation on what your impression of the overworked layman's expression for self-esteem, giving an example of your opinion demonstrating you have completely missed some much needed research (by you) on the importance a human's sense of self worth actually is and how it guides that human through the maze of growth and adaptation to life's challenges. Not how that human appears to others but how that human is functioning autonomically from within.
When people use catchwords not realizing their intent and meaning - and worse mocking their own misinterpretations I invite them to do some legitimate reading up.
Member
Posts: 115
Location: Chillliwack, BC
Location: Chillliwack, BC
September 10th, 2007, 03:05 PM
Other words i don't like..
multiculturism (divirsity et al.)- which only means disintegration of the cohesive cultural and legal fabric of Canadian society, and any sense of tradition and history as an archetype of the nation. It creates an assemblage of cultural ghettos instead of a nation state.
tolerance (inclusivity et al.)- right - for who.. for one of the unending line of aggrieved victims groups that continuously splinter, more often than not in search of money for their distress
and with no sense of pariticipation in, obligation to, gratitude for or understanding of the wider community. It is a clear sign of what a selfish, egotistical society we've become.
values - another code word intended to impose radical relativism as the theosophy of our society, with heretical penalties imposed on whoever questions the new orthodoxy of political correctness.
gay - one of the great misnomers of our times for a behavioural and moral anomoly that produces anything but happiness or grace.
We are slipping back into the dark ages.
Other words i don't like..
multiculturism (divirsity et al.)- which only means disintegration of the cohesive cultural and legal fabric of Canadian society, and any sense of tradition and history as an archetype of the nation. It creates an assemblage of cultural ghettos instead of a nation state.
tolerance (inclusivity et al.)- right - for who.. for one of the unending line of aggrieved victims groups that continuously splinter, more often than not in search of money for their distress
and with no sense of pariticipation in, obligation to, gratitude for or understanding of the wider community. It is a clear sign of what a selfish, egotistical society we've become. values - another code word intended to impose radical relativism as the theosophy of our society, with heretical penalties imposed on whoever questions the new orthodoxy of political correctness.
gay - one of the great misnomers of our times for a behavioural and moral anomoly that produces anything but happiness or grace.
We are slipping back into the dark ages.
Steven Hawking's Hero
Posts: 6,445
September 10th, 2007, 03:06 PM
Thanks Tonington
I get snippy when I see words being used and criticized when their original intent is not understood.
I have walked enough paths of mea culpa in my life to know how rich it is for us to acknowledge errors and learn by doing our own information gathering and reassessing our beliefs.
Thanks Tonington
I get snippy when I see words being used and criticized when their original intent is not understood.
I have walked enough paths of mea culpa in my life to know how rich it is for us to acknowledge errors and learn by doing our own information gathering and reassessing our beliefs.
Steven Hawking's Hero
Posts: 6,445
September 10th, 2007, 03:09 PM
coldstream
You have picked a valid list of what we now consider as common as "pass the potatoes".... often misued and bringing with that use a whole baggage of emotional detritus.
Strip the words down to a meaning you understand and can live with - let the rest of the linguistic acrobats sail through the air of pointless verbage.
coldstream
You have picked a valid list of what we now consider as common as "pass the potatoes".... often misued and bringing with that use a whole baggage of emotional detritus.
Strip the words down to a meaning you understand and can live with - let the rest of the linguistic acrobats sail through the air of pointless verbage.
