How Terror Has Lost Its Meaning

CHUCKMAN

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Jan 20, 2006
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July 12, 2007

HOW TERROR HAS LOST ITS MEANING

John Chuckman

Why does terror dominate our headlines and the attention of our governments going on six years after 9/11? The answer cannot be what George Bush says that it is: it is not the fault of people who hate democracy and freedom.

We know this for a great many reasons. One of the world’s oldest terrorist organizations, the IRA, had no interest in British government and society. It was interested only in being free of their control.

We know Bush is wrong also because the people who genuinely hate democracy and freedom - the world’s oligarchs, dictators, and strongmen - are people who hate terror themselves because it threatens their security.

Strong absolute states have no tolerance for terror. The Soviet Union never had a serious problem with terror, neither did East Germany, nor did Hussein’s Iraq.

Absolute states are also frequently supported by, or allied to, the United States, presumably for reasons other than promoting terror. We don’t need to go into the long history of the Cold War to find this. It remains true following 9/11. Contemporary examples include Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, and Egypt.

Bush is wrong, too, because all evidence, whether from polls or interviews or writing, shows that people living in lands without democracy overwhelmingly would embrace freedom were it available to them.

Of course, all such generalizations are statistical in nature. That is, they are about trends or tendencies that reasonably describe the overwhelming bulk of specific examples. There are always exceptions, extreme examples, what statisticians call outliers, but you cannot talk about any subject sensibly when you talk about only exceptions.

We also know, despite truckloads of publicity saying otherwise, that terror is not by any measure one of the world’s great problems. The number of people killed in the World Trade Center, the largest terrorist attack by far, was less than one month’s carnage on America’s highways. It was equivalent of about two months of America’s murdering Americans on the nation’s streets.

Terror is intended to frighten and intimidate people, its secrecy and methods calculated to make deaths, even a small number of them, more shocking than everyday deaths. But if we look at societies that have undergone horrors beyond most people’s ability to imagine, horrors greater than any modern terror, we find something very interesting.

Life in London carried on during the Blitz. Germany maintained a huge armaments production despite thousand-plane raids day and night. The people of Leningrad, despite 800,000 deaths from being shelled and starved during the German siege, managed to carry on a kind of society. People in Sarajevo made do through a long and agonizing terror. Even the seemingly-hopeless inmates of death camps often made remarkable efforts to maintain some semblance of normality.

Perhaps the greatest terror experience in modern history was American carpet-bombing in Vietnam. We know from Vietnamese war veterans that these were their most feared events. They were horrific, and the United States left Vietnam having killed something like 3 million people, mostly civilians. But it did leave, and the people it bombed so horribly won a terrible war.

Now all of these experiences, plus many more we could cite, have the elements of randomness for victims and methods that just could not be much more horrible. They all are experiences in terror in the broadest sense. What they tell us is that terror does not work, despite its ability to make people miserable.

I like the anecdote that following the atomic-bombing of Hiroshima, within weeks, wild flowers were spotted growing in the cracks of the pavement. I very much like to think of that as representing the human spirit.

Terror as we traditionally think of it is a method of redress or vengeance for those without great armies or powerful weapons, those at a great disadvantage vis-à-vis some powerful oppressor or opponent. Generally the grievances behind terrorist acts are reasonable demands that have been ignored or have even been suppressed for long periods of time.

Although sometimes, they are unreasonable demands, but in this they are no different than the grievances that often lead to wars or invasions or occupations by powerful states.

Terror generally kills innocent people, something no decent-minded person can accept, but what is always forgotten in the press and government treatment of terror as something alien and unimaginably bad is that war in the contemporary world does precisely the same thing.

We have a powerful trend over the last century shifting the victims of war from armed forces to civilians. In World War I, there were many civilian deaths, but most of went on at the front was the killing of soldiers. By the time of Vietnam, and even more so Iraq, literally most of the deaths are civilians, overwhelmingly so. The fire-bombing and nuclear-bombing of cities during World War II marked the first great shift, returning military operations effectively to the world Before the Common Era when sacking and raping cities was ordinary.

Why has this happened? The chief reason is increasingly destructive weapons capable of being used from a great distance. Those pressing the buttons not only don’t see what they are doing in any detail, but the damage of which they are capable increases every year. A single plane today can drop enough munitions to destroy utterly a small town. In 1917, a plane could carry enough munitions to destroy a small house, if the pilot were lucky about air currents and other variables.

America makes claims about using ‘smart’ weapons, but these claims are highly deceptive. First, smart weapons are costly, and most bombs dropped are still ‘dumb’
ones. The percentage used in the first Gulf War, a time when there were many press conferences glorifying precision weapons, was on the order of five percent smart weapons.

Second, smart weapons require excellent intelligence, something you cannot have under many circumstances. The infamous bomb-shelter event in Baghdad during the first Gulf War, which incinerated four hundred civilians in an instant, happened because American officials thought there were party officials hiding there, but they were wrong.

Third, even with intelligence, decisions are made which are poor ones. The Baghdad bomb shelter is an example here, too. Even were there some party officials there, killing nearly four hundred others to get them was the kind of savage decision Israel so often makes to its shame.

Fourth, smart weapons do make mistakes with chips or programming or flight controls that are faulty.

Fifth, the better the weapons get, the more the temptation to use them, and the more they will be misused by poor judgment and poor intelligence.

There is no prospect in our lifetime that so-called precision weapons can change the tendency towards killing civilians rather than soldiers.

Terrible weapons are under constant research efforts at ‘improvement.’ The United States has developed gigantic flammable-liquid bombs, the size and weight of trucks. It is busy developing compact nuclear warheads that are, in the view of the kind of people associated with George Bush, both useable and practical.

The problem with modern weapons is not only their great power and complete removal of users from ghastly results, it is their capacity to alter the psychology and morality of those possessing them.

Where great power exists, it tends to be used, sooner or later. This intuitive idea was part of the reason in the eighteenth century for opposing large standing armies. Expert historians have attributed at least part of the cause of World War I to huge standing armies and a ferocious arms race.

It is hard to think of a horrible weapon that has not been used fairly soon after its development: the flame thrower, poison gas, germ warfare, machine guns, landmines, cluster bombs, napalm, and nuclear weapons.

Imagine the psychology of politicians and war planners in Washington, sitting in air-conditioned offices, perhaps just returned from expense-account lunches, discussing developments in, say, Iraq. They don’t see or hear or smell the misery of a people without sanitation or electricity – these having been deliberately destroyed by the United States in the previous Gulf War and never repaired. These planners, looking at charts on their expensive laptops, only know from certain graphs that they have what they see as a problem and that they have the ability to reduce it or make it go away, almost like wishing away something you don’t like.

The solution comes down to such pragmatic considerations as to whether Tomahawks or B-52s or a wing of fighter-bombers will best meet the ‘need,’ and perhaps the availability of each, and perhaps even comparative benefit-cost ratios (kills per buck), also charted on their laptops.

If this isn’t the banality of evil, I don’t know what is. And when the planners decide which weapon or combination of weapons will best alter the graph, the orders go out, the buttons are pressed, and no one but the poor half-starved people living in dust and squalor have any idea of what actually happens, which people in the neighborhood have their bodies torn apart or incinerated, which houses are destroyed, which children mutilated. The people who carry out these acts see only puffs of distant smoke.

This is modern war as practiced by an advanced society.

On a smaller scale than Iraq, we’ve all read the endless reports of Israeli incursions and assassinations: an entire family wiped out on a beach by distant shelling, an apartment building full of families hit by a missile intended for one resident, pedestrians cut into pieces as a missile hits a targeted car on a crowded street. All of it is put down to stopping terror, all of it is done from a safe distance, all of it kills mainly civilians, and all of it is indistinguishable from terror.

If challenged today for a definition of terror, I doubt anyone could produce a sound one that limits the meaning to the acts of those constantly in our headlines. Rather those acts are now reduced to special cases of something a great deal larger.

Which was the more ghastly act of terror, 9/11 or the invasion of Iraq? 9/11 killed about 3,000 people and destroyed a building. The invasion of Iraq killed more than 600,000, destroyed the irreplaceable records and artefacts of an ancient civilization, and left a nation of more than 20 million desperate for work, clean water, and electricity. And it should be stressed that although 9/11 came first, there were no connections between these events, except that the one was used as an excuse for the other.

When we hear the word terror in the news, we are conditioned to think that only civilians have died, but how is it different now for news of an attack by American forces or a reprisal raid from the Israeli army? It isn’t. We know immediately that civilians die every single time. Indeed, what we often do not know is whether any “bad guys” were killed.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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Pangloss you are way so kind....

I saw this yesterday and gave it a pass - the guy is sliding through SPAM in what he feels is a legitimate debate style.... Even bloggers who rule over their website are still up for commentary and invite it from readers. They even post it.

This stuff is as exciting as a cardboard sign.

Oh I get it - Google is filled with Chuckman self-promotion - he is into retirement and perhaps has more time on his hands than is healthy for the internet. Retired from Texaco Canada - if that adds to his credibility hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 
May 28, 2007
3,866
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Honour our Fallen
Moronic propaganda to diss bush...i stopped reading when he said ;

Strong absolute states have no tolerance for terror. The Soviet Union never had a serious problem with terror, neither did East Germany, nor did Hussein’s Iraq.

For some it's just about an exuse to get on the i hate bush band wagon...
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
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In all of Chuckman's post, I can't find an incorrect statement. What he is saying is that it is hard to tell who the terrorists are without a program. He's saying that the attacks on 9/11 killed around 3,000 civilians while the invasion and bombing of Iraq killed 600,000. Which terrorism was worse?

How many times have we read about entire families being wiped out by indiscriminate or negligent bombing by high altitude bombers? How many times have we read about an entire apartment being bombed by Israel because they thought one of the residents was a "terrorist".

The word terrorism used to have an horrific meaning but now we have to be sure we know who is doing it. Is it us or them? Or is it both?
 
May 28, 2007
3,866
67
48
Honour our Fallen
In all of Chuckman's post, I can't find an incorrect statement. What he is saying is that it is hard to tell who the terrorists are without a program. He's saying that the attacks on 9/11 killed around 3,000 civilians while the invasion and bombing of Iraq killed 600,000. Which terrorism was worse?

How many times have we read about entire families being wiped out by indiscriminate or negligent bombing by high altitude bombers? How many times have we read about an entire apartment being bombed by Israel because they thought one of the residents was a "terrorist".

The word terrorism used to have an horrific meaning but now we have to be sure we know who is doing it. Is it us or them? Or is it both?
the invasion of iraq killed 600,000....I don't think so....
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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the invasion of iraq killed 600,000....I don't think so....

It doesn't matter what you think. What do you know? How many people did the bombing and invasion of Iraq kill? How about the brutal sanctions? If you are going to debate show us your numbers.
 
May 28, 2007
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Honour our Fallen
It doesn't matter what you think. What do you know? How many people did the bombing and invasion of Iraq kill? How about the brutal sanctions? If you are going to debate show us your numbers.
It just seems a little high is all.there is a lot of propaganda bandied about...Hence..."And i don't know much except what the media tells me".


As for sanctions, i posted about them in another thread.
The sanctions were the very thing that gave power to Saddam.

Before they went in this time i had the good fortune to meet an iraqui man who actually spoke in the united nations.

He explained it this way to me.
He said that they left saddam in power in order to get the oil contracts from Kuwait. After the 1st gulf war Britain and Europe held most of the oil contracts in Kuwait.
USA pointed out to kuwait that Saddam was still over there and Britain wasn't going to leave much of a force in Kuwait. so to justify the USA leaving a 35,000 army Kuwait eventually gave all the oil contracts to usa interest.

Now by imposing draconian sanctions on Saddam he was left to dole out who gets what. He controlled completely the flow of food and medicine. If a village did not show proper love for the man ...they starved...This was his real power in Iraq...

Now this man went to the united nations and not just told them this but explaiend if they take away the sanctions , continue the united nation search for WMD, Iraq would develope on its own and eventually Saddam would die or be killed and things would gently evolve........


Anyway looking back on this convo i had i now realize he was pretty accurate and that the usa did not want Iraq to evolve....
Disclaimer here: i hate when i accuse the american people. It's a certain power base doing this, that have similiar friends even in Canada...hell Cominco is accused of supplying rebels in the congo with weapons in order to maintain cheap mining ......

But making assumptions that 600 large were killed without real facts is not helping either......
It just seems a lot.
 

MikeyDB

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Jun 9, 2006
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Juan

Societies celebrate their victories in war and of course the victor writes the history. The movie industry was/is employed to demonize the enemy and fill movie goer’s with pride in their nation’s military efforts and victories over the tyranny of the enemy. These cinematic efforts serve to unite people in a common goal while raising enthusiasm for war bonds and direct participation in the “war effort”.

This seems to me to be entirely ‘normal’. No one wants to believe for a moment that the will of the people…the reasons why a nation’s children are sent off to fight and die in war….include unjustifiable cruelty and wanton destruction. If the enemy had demonstrated reserve and tolerance that’s what the militaries of the “good-guys” would have echoed…therefore, when the enemy kills civilians and the innocent with impunity it’s the “nature of war” that infects the “good-guys” and atrocities become “unavoidable” and “greatly regretted” acts on both sides of the conflict.

We’ve had “war on poverty”, “war on drugs”, war on terror”, used by various national entities as phrases applied to both domestic and foreign situations as strategy that subtly acknowledges that “in a war” all bets are off. Friendly-fire is a demon from the “fog of war”, an unfortunate by-product of fear and confusion; death-tolls among non-combatants and the innocent are “collateral damage”; torture rape slaughter…all of course deeply regretted but nevertheless the outcome when “good” “honest” “god-fearing” young men and women are faced with the naked evil that the enemy surely represents.

Similarly from Sci-Fi…to Freddy Jason and Chucky….the “horror” genre of movies, “terror” is an ever-present phenomenon on our television and movie screens.

“Bad Boys” “Cops”, “America’s Most Wanted”, “Cold Case Files”, brings our attention to and deepens our understanding of the fragility of the veneer of civilization that binds everyone from Canadians celebrating our “Charter of Rights and Freedoms” to America’s “Constitution” and “Bill of Rights”.

From Taber and Mayerthorpe Alberta to Columbine Colorado, from Montreal and Toronto to Tel Aviv and Baghdad, terror is alive and well and lives “obviously” in our schools our universities and our bedroom communities.

We have a sometimes scalding debate whether the “evil and tyranny” of consummerist societies have contributed to a phenomenon labeled “global warming”….many believe it’s a “liberal-left-wing-tree-hugger” exaggeration of a normal planetary cycle while others believe that humankind has tipped the balance on world climate and unless something is done….something is done by everyone not just government and industry….oceans will rise, river basins will become deserts, economies will fold and cataclysmic consequences lurk around the corner….

Be afraid be very afraid……

I think it’s all working just swell…..
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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But making assumptions that 600 large were killed without real facts is not helping either......
It just seems a lot.

Again, the statement that it "seems a lot" is meaningless. There is all kinds of information out there that suggests higher numbers than are being reported.

http://tinyurl.com/kxd8m
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Don't know how that ramble got posted twice...sorry.

Perhaps a "moderator" can eliminate one...

Thanks MDB
 

Minority Observer84

Theism Exorcist
Sep 26, 2006
368
5
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The Capitol
Fact #1 :
At least 6000 Iraqis died in the first night of bombing the terrorist action that was later labled "shock and awe "
Fact #2 :
Countless crediable sources have confirmed that iraq did not have WMDs they did this in public sources include Mohamed El Bardi (UN nuclear watchdog head ) and Scott Ritter (Head of UN Project to search for WMDs in Iraq) These people and many other went on record to say that there was no cause for threat to anyone least of all the USA .
Fact # 3
No One until today can prove any relation ship between 9/11 and Saddam Hussien (Regardless of what redneck conservatives would lead you to believe )
Fact#4
In and internal memo to the president george tenant the then head of the CIA perdicted that sectarian violence would be by product of the invasion of iraq GWB knew this and still went ahead with it .
Fact #5
Key members of bush's cabinet including Dick Cheney and Paul Wolfowitz wrote a letter to then president Bill Clinton urging him to invade iraq . and it is a FACT that these people brought the invasion of iraq up to GWB as an actionable plan in the very first week of his presidency .

Conclusion :
The invasion of Iraq was an act of aggression perpitrated by GWB with full support of the american people (Highlighted by countless marchs and Bush's reelection . ) Poor People in Iraq are dying by the thousands everyday and american firms are making millions of their own tax payers and off Iraqi oil reserves . True terrorism has not been carried out by anyone as well or on as wide a scale as the United states goverment .
That is the meaning of the article above that the word terror has lost it's true meaning and is being used as a political bogey man to restrict personal freedoms , to make money for people already saturated with it and to invade and exploit forigen populations .
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Juan

Societies celebrate their victories in war and of course the victor writes the history. The movie industry was/is employed to demonize the enemy and fill movie goer’s with pride in their nation’s military efforts and victories over the tyranny of the enemy. These cinematic efforts serve to unite people in a common goal while raising enthusiasm for war bonds and direct participation in the “war effort”.

This seems to me to be entirely ‘normal’. No one wants to believe for a moment that the will of the people…the reasons why a nation’s children are sent off to fight and die in war….include unjustifiable cruelty and wanton destruction. If the enemy had demonstrated reserve and tolerance that’s what the militaries of the “good-guys” would have echoed…therefore, when the enemy kills civilians and the innocent with impunity it’s the “nature of war” that infects the “good-guys” and atrocities become “unavoidable” and “greatly regretted” acts on both sides of the conflict.

We’ve had “war on poverty”, “war on drugs”, war on terror”, used by various national entities as phrases applied to both domestic and foreign situations as strategy that subtly acknowledges that “in a war” all bets are off. Friendly-fire is a demon from the “fog of war”, an unfortunate by-product of fear and confusion; death-tolls among non-combatants and the innocent are “collateral damage”; torture rape slaughter…all of course deeply regretted but nevertheless the outcome when “good” “honest” “god-fearing” young men and women are faced with the naked evil that the enemy surely represents.

Similarly from Sci-Fi…to Freddy Jason and Chucky….the “horror” genre of movies, “terror” is an ever-present phenomenon on our television and movie screens.

“Bad Boys” “Cops”, “America’s Most Wanted”, “Cold Case Files”, brings our attention to and deepens our understanding of the fragility of the veneer of civilization that binds everyone from Canadians celebrating our “Charter of Rights and Freedoms” to America’s “Constitution” and “Bill of Rights”.

From Taber and Mayerthorpe Alberta to Columbine Colorado, from Montreal and Toronto to Tel Aviv and Baghdad, terror is alive and well and lives “obviously” in our schools our universities and our bedroom communities.

We have a sometimes scalding debate whether the “evil and tyranny” of consummerist societies have contributed to a phenomenon labeled “global warming”….many believe it’s a “liberal-left-wing-tree-hugger” exaggeration of a normal planetary cycle while others believe that humankind has tipped the balance on world climate and unless something is done….something is done by everyone not just government and industry….oceans will rise, river basins will become deserts, economies will fold and cataclysmic consequences lurk around the corner….

Be afraid be very afraid……

I think it’s all working just swell…..

Good post Mikey

I'm probably a bit older than you are and I remember the add campaigns to get people to buy war bonds. I was only a kid during the second world war and I didn't understand more than that the Germans and the Japs were monsters to be killed at all costs. I believed till my teens that all Japanese were bandy-legged , cross-eyed, and had thick glasses. Through the years the adds have become more subtle as you say and now we have television to help with the brain washing. The movie industry has gotten very good at messages. The Green Berets were made famous during the Viet Nam war, which was the worst military debacle the U.S. has ever been involved in.
Speaking of propaganda, I couldn't believe how quickly the U.S. came up with "freedom fries" and "freedom Toast" to dis the French for their non-support.

Le plus change, le plus ce le mem chose
 
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MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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Nor over the vast areas of the planet that the United States has. The American policy of "regim-change", dismantling elected governments to import horrific people with "American Interests" as their primary responsibility has happened all over the world. It's difficult to ascertain from one moment to the next if Usam bin Laden is an "enemy" of America of its paid recruiting officer.....whether Manuel Noriega is a saint or simply anohter graduate of the School of the Americas....the engine of terrorism that America supports.....

From Viet Nam to Haiti from East Timor to Chile....the common thread isn't "communism" it's americanism....