kids being allowed to sue smoking parents


miniboss
#1
A doctor is recommending kids be allowed to sue their parents if they smoke in a vehicle while the kids are in it.. This doctor is saying that being in a vehicle with people having a smoke is equivilent to child abuse. If we think there are alot of broken homes now, just wait. I'm sure every single lawfirm in the country did a collective "jump for joy", I'm sure they're seeing visions of dollar signs dancing in front of their eyes, when the news hit the paper today. In order for a kid to sue, first, the kid would have to be suffering from a physical or mental ailment that is conclusively proven to be a direct result of second hand smoke, by at least 5 specialists, which would be recommended by an impartial 3rd party. If the kid loses, who pays the court costs? Parents? I don't think so, that kid would be working a mighty long time to pay those off. If a kid wins the suit, first the Lawyers will get a sizable chunk of it, and regardless of what's left, the kid will still have the same health problems they started with, and they will be out on their *** so fast, it will make their heads spin. So who really wins? Isn't it amazing how an entire industry, probably worth billions has cropped up soon after the attacks on big tobacco began. One of first on the scene, the drug industry, I'm sure they have our best interests at heart, and want to see us healthy, yeah right!! We all know smoking isn't exactly healthy for us, with all the media bombardment and all, but the reality is, our gov't , HAS APPROVED, TOBACCO for SALE and CONSUMPTION, in this country. Because tobacco IS NOT a contraban substance, smokers have rights also. I believe it is hippocritical if the gov't to still collect tax dollars from the sale of tobacco products, meanwhile taking away the right to use the product, they approved in the first place.
 
marygaspe
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by minibossView Post

A doctor is recommending kids be allowed to sue their parents if they smoke in a vehicle while the kids are in it.. This doctor is saying that being in a vehicle with people having a smoke is equivilent to child abuse. If we think there are alot of broken homes now, just wait. I'm sure every single lawfirm in the country did a collective "jump for joy", I'm sure they're seeing visions of dollar signs dancing in front of their eyes, when the news hit the paper today. In order for a kid to sue, first, the kid would have to be suffering from a physical or mental.

So glad my children are grown. I do understand about health issues, by the way, but the very idea that children be taught, for any reason, to go against their parents and actually SUE them amazes me. I am very old school when it comes to kids. Frankly, there is too much pandering to childen these days.
 
tamarin
#3
I was hoping that kids might be able to sue other kids for bullying and harassment. That would be a major boost to court employment! I was hoping too that adults could sue kids that litter. It seems to be one of childhood's favourite pastimes. Environmental degradation is every bit as serious as child abuse; we need to be able to pursue violators. Some kids are nice, some ain't. Many are a nasty piece of work. But life's a two way street. If they can sue, we can sue. I like that.
 
Zzarchov
#4
My wife and her brothers won't but should. Both were born with severe asthma and the father refused to stop chain smoking around them, the one Brother ended up hospitalized alot in his youth. Mother quit, father just didn't think he should have to in his house.
 
Curiosity
#5
Wish someone would explain to me a fact of life here....

Many of our parents and their families smoked and drank to excess in some cases....we were surrounded by cigarette smoking in restaurants and gathering places, inside and outside.....Many of our grandparents age didn't realize the dangers inherent in smoking.... they tried to do away with alcohol...made a bunch of millionaires for their trouble... and some dead people too.

Where are the stats on these horrible statistics I keep reading about?

I don't smoke, I don't drink, but I get confused as to why all of a sudden in the year of 2006 some
legislation is necessary determining where and when private citizens can have a puff.

Sniffer/puffer police.... all dressed in brown no doubt. Who will be minding the crime store when they are busily nosing their way into private homes and vehicles?

Are we now taking away parental responsibility as well as emasculating everything regarding common sense?

Next people will have to schedule their bathroom breaks on some kind of routine schedule or the police will be knocking at your commode!

Oh yes... we have the "do not spank your children" gang too.

Attorneys can set up shop for Children Suing Bad Parents.....
 
MikeyDB
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by CuriosityView Post

Wish someone would explain to me a fact of life here....

Many of our parents and their families smoked and drank to excess in some cases....we were surrounded by cigarette smoking in restaurants and gathering places, inside and outside.....Many of our grandparents age didn't realize the dangers inherent in smoking.... they tried to do away with alcohol...made a bunch of millionaires for their trouble... and some dead people too.

Where are the stats on these horrible statistics I keep reading about?

I don't smoke, I don't drink, but I get confused as to why all of a sudden in the year of 2006 some
legislation is necessary determining where and when private citizens can have a puff.

Sniffer/puffer police.... all dressed in brown no doubt. Who will be minding the crime store when they are busily nosing their way into private homes and vehicles?

Are we now taking away parental responsibility as well as emasculating everything regarding common sense?

Next people will have to schedule their bathroom breaks on some kind of routine schedule or the police will be knocking at your commode!

Oh yes... we have the "do not spank your children" gang too.

Attorneys can set up shop for Children Suing Bad Parents.....

Every society needs its criminals the bad guys who can be identified as tearing society apart or damaging the perfection of the right-thinking crowd.

It's legerdemain, the hand is quicker than the eye.... see if you place responsibility for respiratory disease on smokers...then you can both take attention off the poor management of healthcare (OH me oh my the costs are just skyrocketting...) you can divide your society between those who do XYZ and those who don't...it legitimizes divisiveness..... It takes attention away from how poorly the government of Canada deals with the thousands of other issues that are costing people their lives...

It's a scare tactic (another form of state-sponsored terrorism) that leads you to believe that the state knows whats best for you and you have no ability to determine for yourself what you should or should'nt be doing...it's all okay every one relax..the great leadership of this nation will lead you out of the darkness...

Lots of reasons Curio, but like the sheep that believe everything that flows from the media machinery of the government this horsepucky serves the purposes of the wealthy and the powerful...situation normal all fqed up...
 
ottawabill
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by marygaspeView Post

So glad my children are grown. I do understand about health issues, by the way, but the very idea that children be taught, for any reason, to go against their parents and actually SUE them amazes me. I am very old school when it comes to kids. Frankly, there is too much pandering to childen these days.

here here!!!!

there's no more to say to that!!!

All we are doing is producing snot nosed..no it all kids who think privillge is there right!!!
 
Ariadne
#8
This reminds me of the Communist era where neighbours reported on neighbours, children reported on parents and no one trusted anyone. If a doctor is recommending that children sue parents for smoking, where does it end? Can I sue my parents? Can employees sue employers if they worked in a smoking environment? Can children sue parents because they weren't enrolled in Scouts or have ski lessons?

This doctor obviously needs to get his head out of the clouds and back into medicine ... assuming he's more level headed about that. Canadians are not lawsuit happy and should not become like that, so there is no reason to encourage an entire generation of children to sue their parents.

There is a huge backlash against smoking right now, but that's not how it's always been. Maybe people should have a little respect; or at least tolerance, for the addicted smokers and focus on the new generations without making outcasts of people that already smoke.

And I agree with the lack of stats. There are none. Some people that have never smoked have had lung cancer and some people that smoke all their lives never get it. There are no research studies or stats that say that children traveling in cars with smokers are at risk of anything.
 
ottawabill
#9
I use to smoke. Took years to quit but have. Haven't smoked in over 2 years and as much as I still miss the drug..will never smoke again!

I stopped because it wasn't good for me and that it had a stronger hold on me than anything else in my life...NOT GOOD!!

but when I see Government commercials showing deathly smoke attaching itself to chlidrens teddy bears then showing the kid take the detah coated teddy to her room..well thats overboard!! The anti-smoking zealots have been going extreme and with that commercail they have shown thenselves to be extreme... What about a commercial showing the deth smoke from cars being inhaled by children on their way to scholl while innocently walkign on a sidewalk...damn cars!!! Ban them... Toxic plastic off gases in our new home...sue the developer!!! he's killing us all...

We are all going to die.....think people forget that!!
 
MikeyDB
#10
We listened to the new-wave of child psychologists and childcare professionals and educationists and ended up with a society conditioned to pander to children. A child has more rights in this society than an adult and while the protection of children should be a primary concern, the message of how fragile their poor little egos are and how sensitive to discipline the modern child has become is simply a load of crap. Good doctors collecting enormous salaries for rising to the challenge of protecting children...California Edubabble that advises that you can't tell Johnny or Jane that they failed a test...that would devastate their self-esteem....

In the community I live in the problem of University and College students littering loud parties swarming, violence and rowdiness at "keg-parties", street racing the list is lengthy... When I suggested to the local authorities that there's a simple solution I was ridiculed and pushed aside.

If a university student or a college student is involved in something that demands police intervention that student (or students) lose their opportunity to attend the higher-educational facility they've been enrolled in and paid to attend...

Children whether they're university students or not, in these moder times of excess and limited control need to understand that you're behavior is not only unacceptable but is costing the people who live in this community. Losing a year and the tuition might seem harsh, but so is trying to get through life basing your notion of civic responsibility on a lie.
 
Curiosity
#11
It would seem the authorities being paid by our tax dollars are taking the easy road of appearing to be "busily employed". The press and media love these "do-good" fillers too... everyone is happy as a muffin in "all is fine" land...

It is far easier to monitor the law abiders - the parents who may spank or smoke - but who monitors the irresponsible parents who do the basics of child rearing, while continuing a destructive pattern
within the household....

Child causes have become prevalent because they receive the most "attractive reception" by the public.... when we look at the other end of the spectrum with the elderly barely subsisting on what amounts to less than 1% of what their earning power and contribution was to the country, and who
find they look forward to assistance from kindly people and feel embarrassed by it because their
country never made provision for them to have anything left during their days of rest and relaxation laughingly called "retirement"....

It isn't a western democratic notion this legislation of privacy any more.... while the really needy are being ignored..... it belongs to many nations with many differing political ideologies.... but the bureaucracies and agencies are burgeoning with fat cats who wave their little batons on occasion to remind us they are doing "the peoples' work" and then continue their Bic Mac lifestyles.

The good housekeeping police are a joke.... government is a joke....and we pay them generous sums of money for not being accountable to us....and coming up with mad hatter schemes to keep us quiet.
 
MikeyDB
#12
In case anyone may be wondering who's behind this move to elevate the teenager and children above the concerns of everyone else...

Who's going to buy all those trinkets from China over the next number of years? Who's going to vote another generation of lying theiving nabobs into control over the lives of all us idiots?...
 
tamarin
#13
Mikey, a wise suggestion! Pandering to children and children's causes has become a scourge in Canada. This coming at the same time that any community member with a few noodles in his noggin knows it's the kids that will have the largest effect on that community's quality of life: crime, noise and littering.
Western governments, in the interest of their children, have become meddlesome and stupid. They've brought western-style government into disrepute as special interests nudge out common sense.
 
MikeyDB
#14
Curiosity

HEAR HEAR!

Politicians...Canadian and American....theives and liars.
 
hermanntrude
#15
there's usually no need for a kid to sue their parents. But i suppose in some extreme cases it might be neccessary for this. On the whole though i agree with most of you guys in that it's not a good example for kids to go sueing their parents.

I remember at boarding school we had a lot of violence going on at one stage and our deputy headmaster stood us all up and explained to us how we shouldn't be doing it, then he made a big mistake. He pointed out that any contact between two people without consent was technically assault. Obviously as messed up kids we all grabbed the bull by the horns and by the end of the week there were several assault charges being investigated. Obviously none of them went anywhere and the police were a bit miffed at us all.

don't give kids an excuse i reckon
 
MikeyDB
#16
I'd like to see parents held accountable for their poor child-supervision and parenting skills but of course that doesn't require a lawyer and a court proceeding...the kids will end up costing us all and we just accept this as normal.....
 
Zzarchov
#17
Does everyone forget who pays for healthcare?

it isn't "the government", the government only has OUR money to work for.

If I can't tell you not to over eat or smoke...then what right do you have to tell me its my moral duty to pay for your 6 heart attacks and Lung Cancer treatment?

How come you can tell me I HAVE to pay for your health care, but you don't owe me the courtesy of not intentionally hurting your own health for me to pay for?


What gives the individual the right to tell the collective whats right for the collective MikeyDB?
 
MikeyDB
#18
If we lived on a planet that didn't have millions..maybe a billion I don't know for sure..cars puking poison into the air the PTB wouldn't need to have a concern over the costs of health care. The smoking causing increased costs to our healthcare system is a lie...or at least if not a lie the means and methods of curtailing suspended particulate matter and toxins in the atmosphere have existed for a long time and its the attitude that we'll allow or permit anything for a dollar ...including collecting the taxes on a pack of smokes that's behind most if not all our problems...

This "collective" you speak of....

Is that the collective that's routinely ignored by our governments....routinely lied to by our governments and who are all actively poisoned by our government who think supporting big business like tobbacco and petroleum is the way to cure our problems...

I didn't ask for the crap that's passed for government in this nation and long before the costs of healthcare for the individual is made the cudgel for beating up on smokers, how about this collective stand up against a corrupt and disingenuous government that steals and wastes far more than the cost of healthcare given to the collective...
 
Alexander
#19
Children sueing their parents? If I was a parent who smoked and my child decides to sue me for it. I would threaten to kick them out of the house. After giving them clothes, a home, food, and other things. Not to mention their LIFE. Then they decide to sue me because I'm a 'threat', well wheres the love?

Crazy doctors are only promoting children to be even more spoilt than they already are.
 
Ariadne
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by ZzarchovView Post

Does everyone forget who pays for healthcare?

it isn't "the government", the government only has OUR money to work for.

If I can't tell you not to over eat or smoke...then what right do you have to tell me its my moral duty to pay for your 6 heart attacks and Lung Cancer treatment?

How come you can tell me I HAVE to pay for your health care, but you don't owe me the courtesy of not intentionally hurting your own health for me to pay for?


What gives the individual the right to tell the collective whats right for the collective MikeyDB?

Seems to me that for every carton/package of cigarettes sold, the company gets about 30% and the gov't gets 70%. I think smokers are already paying enough for their own health care. If the gov't doesn't put that money into health care, that's their mistake. Don't believe that smokers aren't heavily subsidizing the gov't ... not for a minute.
http://www.smoke-free.ca/factsheets/...ax%20Rates.pdf
 
Ariadne
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by AlexanderView Post

Children sueing their parents? If I was a parent who smoked and my child decides to sue me for it. I would threaten to kick them out of the house. After giving them clothes, a home, food, and other things. Not to mention their LIFE. Then they decide to sue me because I'm a 'threat', well wheres the love?

Crazy doctors are only promoting children to be even more spoilt than they already are.

It's kind of funny when you think about it. The child sues the parents, child wins the lawsuit, parents hand over their paycheque to the child to pay off the debt, the child takes the family income and buys ice cream and video games, the family can no longer pay bills, the wage earners are put out on the street, they lose their jobs and voila ... the perfect solution. Some doctors really do say stupid things.
 
miniboss
#22
Wow what a response. I just get p*ssed off every now and then, about what I see in the paper, or see and hear on TV, and I have to vent. Thanks for indulging me.
 
Kreskin
#23
That's a serious downloading of responsibility. Anything else he wants kids to do? Write speeding tickets? Inspect the exhaust systems and fine violating adult drivers? Force parents to take breathalizer tests?
 
Zzarchov
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by MikeyDBView Post

If we lived on a planet that didn't have millions..maybe a billion I don't know for sure..cars puking poison into the air the PTB wouldn't need to have a concern over the costs of health care. The smoking causing increased costs to our healthcare system is a lie...or at least if not a lie the means and methods of curtailing suspended particulate matter and toxins in the atmosphere have existed for a long time and its the attitude that we'll allow or permit anything for a dollar ...including collecting the taxes on a pack of smokes that's behind most if not all our problems...

This "collective" you speak of....

Is that the collective that's routinely ignored by our governments....routinely lied to by our governments and who are all actively poisoned by our government who think supporting big business like tobbacco and petroleum is the way to cure our problems...

I didn't ask for the crap that's passed for government in this nation and long before the costs of healthcare for the individual is made the cudgel for beating up on smokers, how about this collective stand up against a corrupt and disingenuous government that steals and wastes far more than the cost of healthcare given to the collective...


"The government that wastes" its wasting our money, and its our money to waste.

I hate to break it to you guys, but a smoker will cost more to health care in his life than he will put back in, even with his 70% from each pack.

Cars and all kinds of other things also spew pollutants into the air, and if the public will was that they too needed to be squeezed out, then we have that right as a people. For the moment we decide the money thing bring in, is more than the money they drag out. Not so with smoking.

I understand your hooked on smokes and it bothers you to think that MAYBE, man wasn't meant to inhale smoke, and that MAYBE smoke inhalation is bad. Its up there with drinking alcohol which is a poison (literally, being drunk is just being mildly poisoned).

And I don't care if you smoke or drink, until you start saying I need to pay for it.

Even if the government was sparkling clean and 100% efficient (which isn't the point) there is no denying that you smoking, costs me money.

I think you should get one warning from your doctor, if you smoke too much (ie, more than cigars on special occassions or a smoke with your beer at the bar once a week), If you drink too much or are Overweight then you have to clean up your act or lose OHIP coverage.
 
eh1eh
#25
Smokers and drinkers actually save the government money. Not only do they pay much more in taxation of their evil products, they don't cost in long term care needs later by dieing earlier on average than all the good healthy people.

http://www.bupa.co.uk/health_informa...0604smoke.html

http://www.forces.org/evidence/carol/carol8.htm

http://www.infoplease.com/askeds/smo...xpectancy.html

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...hp?newsid=9703

http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/320/7226/53

Now for the boozers

http://www.cdc.gov/MMWR/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5337a2.htm

http://lib.bioinfo.pl/meid:111648

http://alcoholism.about.com/od/healt...of_Alcohol.htm
Last edited by eh1eh; Feb 6th, 2007 at 08:23 AM..Reason: speilleng
 
tamarin
#26
It is a no-brainer. Smokers are God's gift to the health care system and the government treasury. The people the government should be most concerned about are those who live into old age, collect their pensions far beyond what they actually contributed to the system, use the government's drug plan at 65 plus, develop a debilitating disease (more and more it's Alzheimers) and spend their long, last days in chronic care. How the big lie got perpetuated that smokers cost society dearly is boggling. It's the big lie. And an outrageous one.
 
Tonington
#27
Solution, ditch tobacco products, make em illegal, replace them with pot. Not addictive, but habit forming, relieves stress, and lasts a lot longer than the effects of one cigarette. Something like 3 cigarettes worth of tar and junk in one doobie.

Heh, never gonna happen but it's nice to daydream.
 
Zzarchov
#28
Actually, the problem is they do die earlier.

Living a long life doesn't cost Ohip, you cost more in your final 2 months than you do the rest of your life on average.

Smokers and Heavy Drinkers are young enough that they often live, making this final 2 month period repeat if they are lucky (and we are not) and in best case scenario drain as much as anyone else while paying far less taxes into it (they die quicker)
 
marygaspe
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Solution, ditch tobacco products, make em illegal, replace them with pot. Not addictive, but habit forming, relieves stress, and lasts a lot longer than the effects of one cigarette. Something like 3 cigarettes worth of tar and junk in one doobie.

Heh, never gonna happen but it's nice to daydream.

Thosw who claim weed is not addictive are fooling themselves and not keeping up with current data released by Addiction Research. Weed is psychologically addictive, if nothing else.
 
Tonington
#30
That would be habit forming, as addictive as biting your nails. I have an addiction, pot certainly isn't it.
 
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