Pro choice group shut out

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
8
18
Eastern Ontario
This motion to stop funding of a pro life group was passed yesterday.
It was mentioned that the pro-life group discriminated on the rights of Women...

1st of all you can not discriminate against a right...you can only to a person or group of people.

2nd These are people in the debate of abortion and other alternatives not to force an issue.


Anti-abortion groups on notice after CUSA tables policy amendment
Written by Sarah Bockstael Thursday, 23 November 2006 Sparks flew during question period at a Nov. 21 Carleton University Students’ Association (CUSA) council meeting after a motion that would prevent pro-life groups from assembling on CUSA space was tabled.

The motion — moved by Katy McIntyre, CUSA vice-president (student services), on behalf of the Womyn’s Centre — would amend the campus discrimination policy to state that “no CUSA resources, space, recognition or funding be allocated for anti-choice purposes.”

The motion was met with resistance from Carleton University Lifeline, a pro-life student organization that was denied CUSA club status at an Oct. 26 council meeting.

According to McIntyre, anti-choice groups are gender-discriminatory and violate CUSA’s safe space practices.

The motion focuses on anti-choice groups because they aim to abolish freedom of choice by criminalizing abortion. McIntyre said this discriminates against women, and that it violates the Canadian Constitution by removing a woman’s right to “life, liberty and security” of person.

Lifeline representatives Sarah Fletcher and Nicholas McLeod oppose the motion. They believe it will only prevent their club from obtaining recognition, resources and funding from the student association.

A pro-life group existed on campus for many years, according to Fletcher, and “last year was the first year that it ceased to exist. So now it seems [...] they are trying to amend the constitution to prevent us from being on campus.

“Why now has the issue changed?”

McIntyre said she received complaints after Lifeline organized an academic debate on whether or not elective abortion should be made illegal.

“[These women] were upset the debate was happening on campus in a space that they thought they were safe and protected, and that respected their rights and freedoms,” said McIntyre.

McLeod said the motion itself is discrimination, and that it violates their group’s right to freedom of speech.

“[We are] promoting awareness about issues but we are not trying to tell people that they have to think that way; we are trying to promote discussion. What [CUSA] is trying to do is silence us so there is no discussion, there is only one side to the issue,” said Fletcher.

Reaction from student groups at other universities has been mixed.
The McMaster Students Union (MSU) has an active pro-life club, said Nancy Xi from MSU diversity services. She said that while she is sure people have their personal biases, no one has been "actively campaigning" against either side.

Although his school does not have a pro-life club, JD Muir, vice-president (university affairs) for the Wilfred Laurier University Students' Union, said students would not come across a policy like that at his school.

"Something like [this motion] would never be ratified here," said Muir. "We would see [the motion] as discriminatory."

However, Julien de Bellefeuille, Student Federation of the University of Ottawa vice-president (university affairs), said that although his student association does not currently have any policies regulating anti-choice groups, he said the motion is a good idea and something that his school should adopt as well.

CUSA's motion will be formally debated at their next council meeting Dec. 5, during which council will vote to pass the motion
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
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Both the Pro-life and Pro-Choice groups should be allowed to spread their messages, refusing Pro-Life equal access to spread their message is discrimination.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
149
63
I'm assuming you meant pro-life shut out.

I tend to agree with both of your points, although it is an interesting situation. People do have the right to free speech. As long as the free speech isn't promoting hatred or violence to any individual or group then I don't see why their rights should be violated. I'm not sure about the funding issue though. Does anyone have to fund that voice? Probably not. Is this issue about funding or banning the assembly of pro-life groups on campus?
 

Sassylassie

House Member
Jan 31, 2006
2,976
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I read about this in the paper yesterday Kreskin and from what I gather the Campuses don't want to give Pro-Life "Group" status, but I don't remember reading anything about funding thou.
 

ottawabill

Electoral Member
May 27, 2005
909
8
18
Eastern Ontario
This is the Student assc. more than the university itself.

I would tend to agree that who cares if that are funded or not except that they were being funded, funds have been withdrawn, but pro side still gets money. These are to be halls of great debate,,are they not? Supressing the voice you don't like reeks of Nazi Germany..or any other dictatorship handy...

There are voices on this forum that make my blood boil...but I continue to come why? because of the diversity, the debate, the strong will...If everyone agreed with me on this form I would lose interest and leave...and likely everyone else here too
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Saint John, N.B.
Typical leftist idea of free speech and assembly.......you can gather and say whatever you want, as long as you agree with us, because any position that we do not approve of is spreading hatred, or racist, or sexist, or some other negative catch-all tag...........

It makes me sick.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
It is this kind of statement which has me so confused.....and yet groups use it all the time...

The motion focuses on anti-choice groups because they aim to abolish freedom of choice by criminalizing abortion. McIntyre said this discriminates against women, and that it violates the Canadian Constitution by removing a woman’s right to “life, liberty and security” of person.


Quite clear wording - and I understand the intent - but is there a clause protecting the right to life. liberty, and security, of the unborn?

I'm not a prolifer (or as so "cutely worded" anti choice person) - but I wish they would stop using this conflicting verbage.
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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I don't think there is Curio, though I'm not certain. I would think that if unborn did have rights, abortion would be murder wouldn't it?
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
Toningnton

You are 100% correct of course.... don't mind me.... I'm just poking these folk so they'll think on their butts a little harder... it is one of life's little "no answer for it" questions.

I'm all for individual choice - it they think they can handle it later on after the deed is done. I guess I've seen too many women who have gone downhill after and my own "clear cut" thinking has changed somewhat.

Too bad all this can't be reviewed before the women get pregnant eh?
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
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Heh, truer words. Hindsights great. I've had a couple scares that forced me to think about this. I'm still in university and I had thought when I was younger that I had a responsibility for my actions. But now that I'm older and maybe a pinch wiser, I think of what could I provide for a future if I wasn't able to finish school. I guess theres a certain quality of life I want to be able to provide for my family, regardles, this sort of thing is never a quick or easy choice, at least it wouldn't be for me.
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
8
38
Toningnton

You are 100% correct of course.... don't mind me.... I'm just poking these folk so they'll think on their butts a little harder... it is one of life's little "no answer for it" questions.

I'm all for individual choice - it they think they can handle it later on after the deed is done. I guess I've seen too many women who have gone downhill after and my own "clear cut" thinking has changed somewhat.

Too bad all this can't be reviewed before the women get pregnant eh?

The problem with pro-lifers is that they like to sway people to believe what they believe. Pro-choice usually presents information about where people need to go to put their choice into action. Pro-choice typically doesn't want to convince pro-life that they should have abortions, they let people make their own choice based on their own beliefs. Pro-life uses tactics that plant fear and guilt in women that make pro-choice decisions. If pro-life was just presenting facts, like there is no heart beat before 8 weeks gestation but in their opinions abortion is equivalent to murder, then it would be different.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
7,326
138
63
California
I'm out of things to discuss about pro choice/pro life and all the other pros....

Such a huge topic and I am simply out of anything new to inspire me...

All I can add to this because the posters here are doing fine without my ramblings....and Tonington I think you are an "old soul"....you have much wisdom...

I can only hope people will do their homework before setting up a lifetime of responsibility ...
 

Tonington

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 27, 2006
15,441
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Pro-life uses tactics that plant fear and guilt in women that make pro-choice decisions.

That's certainly true. Those signs that those nutbars carry around, parading them down busy city streets, in front of clinics, utterly reprehensible. Like the decision isn't hard enough, these women have to see that when they walk into the clinic....

Just so theres no confusion, I don't think all pro-lifers are nutbars, just the ones who carry around those distasteful signs!
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
2,432
8
38
That's certainly true. Those signs that those nutbars carry around, parading them down busy city streets, in front of clinics, utterly reprehensible. Like the decision isn't hard enough, these women have to see that when they walk into the clinic....

Just so theres no confusion, I don't think all pro-lifers are nutbars, just the ones who carry around those distasteful signs!

Agree. The streets across the roads from the abortion clinic have been deemed appropriate places for fearmongering and emotional responses to terminating the fertilization of an egg. Universities should be places where a balanced, logical, rational perspective is offered. The claim that abortion is murder is not founded in any science.

For example, we need to figure out what constitutes human life. Let's assume that it is a heartbeat. This definition seems to work quite well when deciding if people are dead, so it should work in determining whether people are alive. There is no detectable heartbeat until about the 8th week of gestation. The pro-lifers should be welcome to present this information, but it they just claim that abortion is murder, then they're throwing around unsubstatiated opinions and that really has no place on a university campus.
 

Kreskin

Doctor of Thinkology
Feb 23, 2006
21,155
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I'm of the opinion that it should not rights until you cut the cord and it lives.
 

tracy

House Member
Nov 10, 2005
3,500
48
48
California
I'm as pro choice as they come, but I don't see why they would need to deny pro life groups the right to meet on campus. That's just stupid.
 

gc

Electoral Member
May 9, 2006
931
20
18
Typical leftist idea of free speech and assembly.......you can gather and say whatever you want, as long as you agree with us, because any position that we do not approve of is spreading hatred, or racist, or sexist, or some other negative catch-all tag...........

It makes me sick.

Just out of curiousity....if someone wanted to start a pro-slavery club that debates the benefits of slavery, would any of you be opposed? How about an anti-slavery club?
 

snowles

Electoral Member
May 21, 2006
324
16
18
Atikokan, Ontario
I'm as pro choice as they come, but I don't see why they would need to deny pro life groups the right to meet on campus. That's just stupid.

I may just be blind, but I don't see anywhere in that article where they're suggesting they are denying these groups the right to meet on campus. CUSA space is actually pretty limited; it's just a single floor in one building (the Unicentre) and the bars, restaurants and places where 'business' for students (ie. bookstore) is transacted.

As a Carleton alumni, I've seen many groups proceed without funding. It doesn't mean they're not allowed to exist, it's just that they don't have 'club status', and thus get school funds, advertising, etc. for their activities.

I have no issue with this; CUSA and the general student body vote annually on whether to allow programs to receive funding, as they come from additional tuition charges placed on each student at the beginning of the academic semesters, and the groups are allowed to appeal and resubmit applications for club approval within the next year. I've seen them cut the student theatre production, and the alternative vegetarian cafeteria within my time there - I hardly think the school was promoting a society of anti-culture and anti-produce.
 

Colpy

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 5, 2005
21,887
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Saint John, N.B.
Just out of curiousity....if someone wanted to start a pro-slavery club that debates the benefits of slavery, would any of you be opposed? How about an anti-slavery club?

I would have no problem with debate on any subject, and no problem with anyone voicing their opinion......

Thought control ain't my thing.

Actions, beyond simple assembly, are a different matter.........