Senate Member
Posts: 6,139 
October 6th, 2006, 11:59 AM
oldier 'saw U.S tank fire on ITV team'
6th October 2006
ITN News journalist Terry Lloyd: 'Shot in the head by Americans' says British soldier
American soldiers: Not as good as British soldiers
A British soldier today told an inquest into the death of journalist Terry Lloyd he saw an US tank open fire on the ITN team's vehicles.
The soldier, thought to be a member of the special forces who was carrying out surveillance at the time, was giving evidence on the fourth day of the 50-year-old veteran broadcaster's Oxford inquest.
It is the first public acknowledgement that British forces witnessed the events of March 22, 2003, in which Mr Lloyd and his interpreter Hussein Osman died and his French cameraman Fred Nerac went missing near Basra in southern Iraq.
Oxfordshire Assistant Deputy Coroner Andrew Walker ordered that the witness, named Soldier B, give his evidence from behind a screen to protect his identity.
Soldier B told the coroner he was 350-500 metres away when he saw three vehicles - the first understood to be that of Mr Lloyd and cameraman Daniel Demoustier; the second an Iraqi pick-up truck with a machine gun mounted on the back and the third the vehicle of Mr Nerac and Lebanese interpreter Mr Osman.
He told the coroner: "I can't say for sure who engaged first.
"My recollection is that the tank engaged the vehicles."
He said he saw an exchange of fire between the Iraqi pick-up truck and an American tank for about 30 seconds before the pick-up truck burst into flames.
He said: "Vehicle One (Mr Lloyd's vehicle) also ignited and went off to the side of the road to its right and came to rest on the side of a field, burning."
The coroner asked: "Did you see anyone leave that vehicle?"
Soldier B replied: "No."
He added: "During the engagement, two people got out of the rear vehicle from each side - the passenger and driver - and dashed about 20 metres and took cover.
"The tank continued to fire at the position where the people had taken cover. I couldn't see them but I could see it firing in that direction for a maximum of a minute.
"Once there was no further movement in the area and the threat had been taken out, the firing stopped."
The coroner asked him: "Did you see the bullets land in any other area than the area where the people (were taking cover), say near Vehicle One?"
He replied: "No I didn't witness that at all."
He said local traffic had been moving regularly up and down the road from Basra but had stopped during the firefight.
Once the firing stopped, he said he saw a green minibus appear.
He said: "It was difficult to see because of the black smoke in the area at the time. It would appear they helped people into the vehicle."
The coroner asked him: "At the time that vehicle was assisting people, was there any fire from any of the coalition positions?"
Soldier B replied: "Not that I remember."
The coroner went on: "Were there at this time any helicopters circling the area?"
He responded: "No."
Helicopter gunship
Reports following the incident suggested Mr Lloyd had been shot by a helicopter gunship as he was evacuated for medical help.
Soldier B said he reported what had happened to his superiors and was told to go and inspect the wreckage.
He went back eight hours after the gunfight, which he said took place around 8.15am to 8.30am local time.
He said he found no bodies or evidence of anyone injured in Mr Nerac's and Mr Hussein's vehicle.
In the Iraqi pick-up truck, he said, he found three charred bodies and another body - fitted with a gas mask and thought to have been the gunner - outside.
Mr Lloyd's vehicle was not mentioned.
Soldier B's evidence suggests he was working undercover near the front line, feeding information about troop movements back to his commanders.
Reports at the time indicated Mr Lloyd was first hit by an Iraqi bullet then, as he was taken away for medical treatment, hit by an American bullet.
Earlier today, the inquest heard from Nicholas Walshe, an ITN journalist asked by his company to investigate how Mr Lloyd died.
Mr Walshe, working with private investigators from security firm AKE, said he spoke to Iraqi witnesses who claimed to have been present when the journalist was shot for the second time.
Some, he said, were more believable than others, and his team were initially hampered in their progress by continued fierce fighting in the battle for Basra.
The first witness, he said, told him he found Mr Lloyd lying face down on the ground with his hands behind his back, "obviously injured".
He told Mr Walshe and his team he put him in the minibus and, on the way to the hospital, heard him say "Sahafi", meaning "journalist" in Arabic, before he died.
Another, "very credible", witness said he had driven the minibus which took Mr Lloyd to hospital. He told Mr Walshe he had been driving from Al Zubayr when his minibus was commandeered by Iraqi fighters to pick up casualties.
He said: "This particular witness ... said Terry appeared shot in the shoulder and his arm was broken.
"He had been lying in the sand between two lanes of the road and walked to the car but was too weak to get in it without help."
He said the witness told him he had a Press pass with him, which was white and issued by the Kuwaitis, but the witness did not recognise the photographs of the ITN team when he was shown them.
Distressing evidence
At this point, the Coroner asked Mr Lloyd's daughter Chelsey, who has attended the inquest throughout, whether she would like to leave the court in view of "distressing" evidence about to be heard.
Anthony Hudson, representing the family, replied: "As distressing as this is, she wants to know as much as possible."
Mr Walshe said the witness then told him: "Terry was then shot in the head by US troops while the vehicle was leaving the scene.
"He showed the hole in the vehicle where he said the bullet passed through. Two Ba'ath (Saddam Hussain's party) soldiers were also shot on the bus with the same calibre weapon."
He said the witness sold the minibus to investigators from the Royal Military Police, and provided three pieces of wood he said Mr Lloyd had lain on as he was driven away.
Another witness told Mr Walshe he had seen Mr Lloyd crouching by the side of the road and then crawling towards the minibus before he was hit by American fire. He said he still managed to get into the minibus.
He said he remembered seeing up to three helicopters above but was not sure whether Mr Lloyd was shot by one of these or by someone on the ground.
Mr Walshe added said this witness told him he was on the minibus together with two injured Iraqis - he did not know whether they were fighters or were armed.
He added: "He said that Terry was no longer alive by the time the hospital was reached."
The inquest was adjourned until Monday.
dailymail.co.uk
oldier 'saw U.S tank fire on ITV team'
6th October 2006
ITN News journalist Terry Lloyd: 'Shot in the head by Americans' says British soldier
American soldiers: Not as good as British soldiers
A British soldier today told an inquest into the death of journalist Terry Lloyd he saw an US tank open fire on the ITN team's vehicles.
The soldier, thought to be a member of the special forces who was carrying out surveillance at the time, was giving evidence on the fourth day of the 50-year-old veteran broadcaster's Oxford inquest.
It is the first public acknowledgement that British forces witnessed the events of March 22, 2003, in which Mr Lloyd and his interpreter Hussein Osman died and his French cameraman Fred Nerac went missing near Basra in southern Iraq.
Oxfordshire Assistant Deputy Coroner Andrew Walker ordered that the witness, named Soldier B, give his evidence from behind a screen to protect his identity.
Soldier B told the coroner he was 350-500 metres away when he saw three vehicles - the first understood to be that of Mr Lloyd and cameraman Daniel Demoustier; the second an Iraqi pick-up truck with a machine gun mounted on the back and the third the vehicle of Mr Nerac and Lebanese interpreter Mr Osman.
He told the coroner: "I can't say for sure who engaged first.
"My recollection is that the tank engaged the vehicles."
He said he saw an exchange of fire between the Iraqi pick-up truck and an American tank for about 30 seconds before the pick-up truck burst into flames.
He said: "Vehicle One (Mr Lloyd's vehicle) also ignited and went off to the side of the road to its right and came to rest on the side of a field, burning."
The coroner asked: "Did you see anyone leave that vehicle?"
Soldier B replied: "No."
He added: "During the engagement, two people got out of the rear vehicle from each side - the passenger and driver - and dashed about 20 metres and took cover.
"The tank continued to fire at the position where the people had taken cover. I couldn't see them but I could see it firing in that direction for a maximum of a minute.
"Once there was no further movement in the area and the threat had been taken out, the firing stopped."
The coroner asked him: "Did you see the bullets land in any other area than the area where the people (were taking cover), say near Vehicle One?"
He replied: "No I didn't witness that at all."
He said local traffic had been moving regularly up and down the road from Basra but had stopped during the firefight.
Once the firing stopped, he said he saw a green minibus appear.
He said: "It was difficult to see because of the black smoke in the area at the time. It would appear they helped people into the vehicle."
The coroner asked him: "At the time that vehicle was assisting people, was there any fire from any of the coalition positions?"
Soldier B replied: "Not that I remember."
The coroner went on: "Were there at this time any helicopters circling the area?"
He responded: "No."
Helicopter gunship
Reports following the incident suggested Mr Lloyd had been shot by a helicopter gunship as he was evacuated for medical help.
Soldier B said he reported what had happened to his superiors and was told to go and inspect the wreckage.
He went back eight hours after the gunfight, which he said took place around 8.15am to 8.30am local time.
He said he found no bodies or evidence of anyone injured in Mr Nerac's and Mr Hussein's vehicle.
In the Iraqi pick-up truck, he said, he found three charred bodies and another body - fitted with a gas mask and thought to have been the gunner - outside.
Mr Lloyd's vehicle was not mentioned.
Soldier B's evidence suggests he was working undercover near the front line, feeding information about troop movements back to his commanders.
Reports at the time indicated Mr Lloyd was first hit by an Iraqi bullet then, as he was taken away for medical treatment, hit by an American bullet.
Earlier today, the inquest heard from Nicholas Walshe, an ITN journalist asked by his company to investigate how Mr Lloyd died.
Mr Walshe, working with private investigators from security firm AKE, said he spoke to Iraqi witnesses who claimed to have been present when the journalist was shot for the second time.
Some, he said, were more believable than others, and his team were initially hampered in their progress by continued fierce fighting in the battle for Basra.
The first witness, he said, told him he found Mr Lloyd lying face down on the ground with his hands behind his back, "obviously injured".
He told Mr Walshe and his team he put him in the minibus and, on the way to the hospital, heard him say "Sahafi", meaning "journalist" in Arabic, before he died.
Another, "very credible", witness said he had driven the minibus which took Mr Lloyd to hospital. He told Mr Walshe he had been driving from Al Zubayr when his minibus was commandeered by Iraqi fighters to pick up casualties.
He said: "This particular witness ... said Terry appeared shot in the shoulder and his arm was broken.
"He had been lying in the sand between two lanes of the road and walked to the car but was too weak to get in it without help."
He said the witness told him he had a Press pass with him, which was white and issued by the Kuwaitis, but the witness did not recognise the photographs of the ITN team when he was shown them.
Distressing evidence
At this point, the Coroner asked Mr Lloyd's daughter Chelsey, who has attended the inquest throughout, whether she would like to leave the court in view of "distressing" evidence about to be heard.
Anthony Hudson, representing the family, replied: "As distressing as this is, she wants to know as much as possible."
Mr Walshe said the witness then told him: "Terry was then shot in the head by US troops while the vehicle was leaving the scene.
"He showed the hole in the vehicle where he said the bullet passed through. Two Ba'ath (Saddam Hussain's party) soldiers were also shot on the bus with the same calibre weapon."
He said the witness sold the minibus to investigators from the Royal Military Police, and provided three pieces of wood he said Mr Lloyd had lain on as he was driven away.
Another witness told Mr Walshe he had seen Mr Lloyd crouching by the side of the road and then crawling towards the minibus before he was hit by American fire. He said he still managed to get into the minibus.
He said he remembered seeing up to three helicopters above but was not sure whether Mr Lloyd was shot by one of these or by someone on the ground.
Mr Walshe added said this witness told him he was on the minibus together with two injured Iraqis - he did not know whether they were fighters or were armed.
He added: "He said that Terry was no longer alive by the time the hospital was reached."
The inquest was adjourned until Monday.
dailymail.co.uk
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,612
October 6th, 2006, 12:26 PM
Consider how desperate life must seem for an American.
Years of lies coming from the “environmentalists” paid by Exxon and a cadre of other world-class marketers of fossil fuels to discredit twelve-hundred scientists from around the world who unanimously agreed that while global warming may be a natural planetary cycle, satisfying the appetites of a greedy human civilization has contributed significantly.
Contributed by adding incalculable quantities of foreign matter in the form of particulate matter as well as of course green house gasses, carbon dioxide etc. and a regimen of toxic ethers circling a rapidly browning landscape.
But our appetites would tolerate no restraint….
The primary rule of business is;“buy low and sell high”, and that’s the way the world economy has been “operating” since Eve handed Adam the apple and asked for a receipt….
A system that relies upon a ready stable and, of course, “profitable” stream of consumer goods, which are then marketed (not necessarily in that order sometimes) to a “marketplace” comprised of significant numbers of consumers vulnerable to conditioning, through a plethora of vehicles, with an appetite for everything and anything the machinery could churn-out.
Imagine how the people of New Orleans, well let’s say everyone who would be unable to afford a ticket to any political party’s fundraiser must feel, to live through this kind of devastation and then learn of criminal mismanagement of their taxes. Mismanagement that saw billions redirected out of the operating capital collected by the administration as means to securing a level of well being through prudent stewardship of the peoples money on their behalf, to facilitate an armed aggression on the basis of “evidence” all but wholly discredited…after the fact, indicating that the necessity of action against Iraq, Afghanistan and several other nations while obscure from the outset, could not be supported on the basis of evidence provided by the Bush administration.
American’s have paid are paying and will continue to pay for an act of war perpetrated by a relatively small cadre of industrialists and political entities having found themselves afforded an opportunity to reap the profits of suffering.
And of course when logic and reason fail or at least threaten to sweep aside the curtain; religion can always be relied upon to step into the void and provide answers for those unable to find them on their own.
Because the canvas of the social milieu is always in motion, everyone must be “interrupted”, ‘put-on-pause’ and religion, like disaster affords manipulation through emotional pathways less available when peace and stability are predominant.
Fear is the most reliable and ubiquitous tool available for sculpting outcomes, and it is fear that has occupied the minds of mankind from the beginning as biological imperative to survival….
That fear, to be useful has to be focused, focused on extremes of behavior extremes of suffering and acknowledgement of overwhelming need loose upon the people of this planet.
To balance the equation, thereby facilitating manipulation to influence this balance, reward must accompany fear. Reward carried by the same messenger delivering what we all regard as our justifiable “quality-of-life” as demonstrated through the metric of consumption.
So while a devastated population of Americans waited for their government to perform the task given them, that government having already been given the money needed, precision “smart-bombs” and “intelligent munitions” rain down not only on the heads of innocent men women and children of these distant nations, but on the heads of Canadian men and women thrown as cannon fodder into the fray.
As obviously demonstrated through not only the bumbling antics of America’s “Techno War Machine” in killing its allies through “friendly fire” but at the far more revealing level of ‘humanitarianism-as-abandoned-concept’ provided by the magic of video and digital imagery from Abu Ghraib, the U.S. military can’t in fact “walk the walk” and has become (necessarily of course) tongue-tied when “talking the talk.”
Those billions are producing wealthy industrialists not peace.
Troops and airmen are not engaged in a “necessity”, not in fighting “terrorism” as media hype has whitewashed this decade, but in the effort to ensure continued control over anyone and everyone’s lives by inculcating fear predicated on the fragile foundation of “religious-belief” reinforced through programming consumption.
As the world witnessed the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the incompetence of the Russian/Soviet administration was confirmed by Chernobyl and other massive failures costing lives the fear “value” of Communism and the sorry escapade of McCarthyism dimmed from memory. A new bogeyman would have to be stuffed and erected for the masses to hate.
Well it’s a bleak and depressing story, and yes it continues today and will wreck havoc as it “adjusts” perceptions, from paying thieves a reward for their theft of taxes to machine-guns mounted on the coastal patrol boats of our good “trading neighbour”.
The house that Ford and Rockefeller built, a machine with the single purpose of focusing the productivity and wealth of the many into the pockets of the few begins its last days as the modern Roman Empire.
I was wondering….
Can anyone tell me the last time a Canadian Television or “film star” was elected as provincial premier or Prime Minister?
Consider how desperate life must seem for an American.
Years of lies coming from the “environmentalists” paid by Exxon and a cadre of other world-class marketers of fossil fuels to discredit twelve-hundred scientists from around the world who unanimously agreed that while global warming may be a natural planetary cycle, satisfying the appetites of a greedy human civilization has contributed significantly.
Contributed by adding incalculable quantities of foreign matter in the form of particulate matter as well as of course green house gasses, carbon dioxide etc. and a regimen of toxic ethers circling a rapidly browning landscape.
But our appetites would tolerate no restraint….
The primary rule of business is;“buy low and sell high”, and that’s the way the world economy has been “operating” since Eve handed Adam the apple and asked for a receipt….
A system that relies upon a ready stable and, of course, “profitable” stream of consumer goods, which are then marketed (not necessarily in that order sometimes) to a “marketplace” comprised of significant numbers of consumers vulnerable to conditioning, through a plethora of vehicles, with an appetite for everything and anything the machinery could churn-out.
Imagine how the people of New Orleans, well let’s say everyone who would be unable to afford a ticket to any political party’s fundraiser must feel, to live through this kind of devastation and then learn of criminal mismanagement of their taxes. Mismanagement that saw billions redirected out of the operating capital collected by the administration as means to securing a level of well being through prudent stewardship of the peoples money on their behalf, to facilitate an armed aggression on the basis of “evidence” all but wholly discredited…after the fact, indicating that the necessity of action against Iraq, Afghanistan and several other nations while obscure from the outset, could not be supported on the basis of evidence provided by the Bush administration.
American’s have paid are paying and will continue to pay for an act of war perpetrated by a relatively small cadre of industrialists and political entities having found themselves afforded an opportunity to reap the profits of suffering.
And of course when logic and reason fail or at least threaten to sweep aside the curtain; religion can always be relied upon to step into the void and provide answers for those unable to find them on their own.
Because the canvas of the social milieu is always in motion, everyone must be “interrupted”, ‘put-on-pause’ and religion, like disaster affords manipulation through emotional pathways less available when peace and stability are predominant.
Fear is the most reliable and ubiquitous tool available for sculpting outcomes, and it is fear that has occupied the minds of mankind from the beginning as biological imperative to survival….
That fear, to be useful has to be focused, focused on extremes of behavior extremes of suffering and acknowledgement of overwhelming need loose upon the people of this planet.
To balance the equation, thereby facilitating manipulation to influence this balance, reward must accompany fear. Reward carried by the same messenger delivering what we all regard as our justifiable “quality-of-life” as demonstrated through the metric of consumption.
So while a devastated population of Americans waited for their government to perform the task given them, that government having already been given the money needed, precision “smart-bombs” and “intelligent munitions” rain down not only on the heads of innocent men women and children of these distant nations, but on the heads of Canadian men and women thrown as cannon fodder into the fray.
As obviously demonstrated through not only the bumbling antics of America’s “Techno War Machine” in killing its allies through “friendly fire” but at the far more revealing level of ‘humanitarianism-as-abandoned-concept’ provided by the magic of video and digital imagery from Abu Ghraib, the U.S. military can’t in fact “walk the walk” and has become (necessarily of course) tongue-tied when “talking the talk.”
Those billions are producing wealthy industrialists not peace.
Troops and airmen are not engaged in a “necessity”, not in fighting “terrorism” as media hype has whitewashed this decade, but in the effort to ensure continued control over anyone and everyone’s lives by inculcating fear predicated on the fragile foundation of “religious-belief” reinforced through programming consumption.
As the world witnessed the fall of the Berlin Wall, and the incompetence of the Russian/Soviet administration was confirmed by Chernobyl and other massive failures costing lives the fear “value” of Communism and the sorry escapade of McCarthyism dimmed from memory. A new bogeyman would have to be stuffed and erected for the masses to hate.
Well it’s a bleak and depressing story, and yes it continues today and will wreck havoc as it “adjusts” perceptions, from paying thieves a reward for their theft of taxes to machine-guns mounted on the coastal patrol boats of our good “trading neighbour”.
The house that Ford and Rockefeller built, a machine with the single purpose of focusing the productivity and wealth of the many into the pockets of the few begins its last days as the modern Roman Empire.
I was wondering….
Can anyone tell me the last time a Canadian Television or “film star” was elected as provincial premier or Prime Minister?
