Genius
Posts: 931 
October 2nd, 2006, 12:19 PM
This is at least the third time something like this has happened in only a few weeks. What the heck is wrong with these people?
Quote:
CBC
At least three students were shot to death Monday at a small Amish school in southeastern Pennsylvania, according to state police.
A man walked into the one-room school and opened fire on the children who were studying, said Jack Lewis of the Pennsylvania State Police.
A man walked into the one-room school and opened fire on the children who were studying, said Jack Lewis of the Pennsylvania State Police.
This is at least the third time something like this has happened in only a few weeks. What the heck is wrong with these people?
Senate Member
Posts: 6,009 
October 2nd, 2006, 12:31 PM
People killed last week in a school shooting near Columbine. Now this shooting. Isn't it time those Septic Tanks banned handguns?
In a minute, there'll be some American coming on here saying "Yeah, but we're allowed handguns because of the 2nd Amendment."
Yeah? Well get rid of the 2nd Amendment (which is over 200 years out of date), ban handguns and then you'll save lives.
People killed last week in a school shooting near Columbine. Now this shooting. Isn't it time those Septic Tanks banned handguns?
In a minute, there'll be some American coming on here saying "Yeah, but we're allowed handguns because of the 2nd Amendment."
Yeah? Well get rid of the 2nd Amendment (which is over 200 years out of date), ban handguns and then you'll save lives.
Senate Member
Posts: 5,158
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
October 2nd, 2006, 02:50 PM
In this case the simple answer would have killed more people.
AND, BTW, if you want to amend the US Constitution to remove the Second Amendment, you require the approval of the legislatures of 34 states, both Houses of Congress, and the President.
You couldn't get the approval of a SINGLE state, I promise.
Quoting Blackleaf
Unfortunately, it is not that simple. Both at Montreal's Dawson College and at the Amish School the perpetrator had both handgun caliber weapons and a 12 ga shotgun. In both cases the shooter used the pistol caliber weapons exclusively. Had he used the shotgun, most of those wounded would be dead.
People killed last week in a school shooting near Columbine. Now this shooting. Isn't it time those Septic Tanks banned handguns?
In a minute, there'll be some American coming on here saying "Yeah, but we're allowed handguns because of the 2nd Amendment."
Yeah? Well get rid of the 2nd Amendment (which is over 200 years out of date), ban handguns and then you'll save lives.
In a minute, there'll be some American coming on here saying "Yeah, but we're allowed handguns because of the 2nd Amendment."
Yeah? Well get rid of the 2nd Amendment (which is over 200 years out of date), ban handguns and then you'll save lives.
In this case the simple answer would have killed more people.
AND, BTW, if you want to amend the US Constitution to remove the Second Amendment, you require the approval of the legislatures of 34 states, both Houses of Congress, and the President.
You couldn't get the approval of a SINGLE state, I promise.
Council Member
Posts: 1,425
Location: Great Satan
Location: Great Satan
October 2nd, 2006, 03:37 PM
I'm positive that if it were illegal to have a weapon, these crazies would certainly think twice about shooting people. Heaven knows they wouldn't want to get in trouble for possessing a firearm.
And once again Blackleaf, you've shown us your brilliance at pot calling the kettle black.. How long did it take your police forces to shoot a Brazilian man for looking like an arab after 7/11? Please try not to post about topics about which you have absolutely zero experience..
Quoting Blackleaf
Yes, yes, banning guns is the soultion!
People killed last week in a school shooting near Columbine. Now this shooting. Isn't it time those Septic Tanks banned handguns?
In a minute, there'll be some American coming on here saying "Yeah, but we're allowed handguns because of the 2nd Amendment."
Yeah? Well get rid of the 2nd Amendment (which is over 200 years out of date), ban handguns and then you'll save lives.
In a minute, there'll be some American coming on here saying "Yeah, but we're allowed handguns because of the 2nd Amendment."
Yeah? Well get rid of the 2nd Amendment (which is over 200 years out of date), ban handguns and then you'll save lives.
I'm positive that if it were illegal to have a weapon, these crazies would certainly think twice about shooting people. Heaven knows they wouldn't want to get in trouble for possessing a firearm.
And once again Blackleaf, you've shown us your brilliance at pot calling the kettle black.. How long did it take your police forces to shoot a Brazilian man for looking like an arab after 7/11? Please try not to post about topics about which you have absolutely zero experience..
House Member
Posts: 4,494
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
October 2nd, 2006, 04:22 PM
I will have to disagree with those who say that banning handguns is the solution. The real problem, as I see it, is the culture of corruption we have that says violence is perfectly acceptible and/or even God ordained. Moreover, not only is violence heartily approved, it all too often goes unpunished or even "justified" by its perpetrators.
British police kill an innocent law abiding Brazilian. White police in the USA kill innocent blacks on a weekly basis in the USA. There was violence in Montreal. Perhaps it is no coincidence that all three countries invaded Iraq and have killed multiples of thousands of innocents with pundits making every excuse possible to "justify" these crimes. Bush proclaimed that he was instructed by God to invade Iraq. Later on he said that he would do it again even if he knew that there were no WMD anywhere. Thus, our society, like that of its supporters, feel that death, violence, crimes, are perfectly OK as long as God can somehow be enlisted to 'justify' it.
Banning handguns won't solve the problem as they have always been in existence in the USA since its inception and have never been thought to be a public hazard. This does not mean that we are a society free of historical violence. But years of Old West violence and public lynchings came to a halt a long time ago as we became more enlightened. The problem today is that we are again succumbing to ideas that were thought to be extinct a long time ago but which, somehow, have found their way back into the public mentality.
Violence is evil and there can be no justification or excuse for it. We must develop a culture that condemns violence and prejudice and replace it with the thought that tact and diplomacy is best in order to deal with difficulties.
I will have to disagree with those who say that banning handguns is the solution. The real problem, as I see it, is the culture of corruption we have that says violence is perfectly acceptible and/or even God ordained. Moreover, not only is violence heartily approved, it all too often goes unpunished or even "justified" by its perpetrators.
British police kill an innocent law abiding Brazilian. White police in the USA kill innocent blacks on a weekly basis in the USA. There was violence in Montreal. Perhaps it is no coincidence that all three countries invaded Iraq and have killed multiples of thousands of innocents with pundits making every excuse possible to "justify" these crimes. Bush proclaimed that he was instructed by God to invade Iraq. Later on he said that he would do it again even if he knew that there were no WMD anywhere. Thus, our society, like that of its supporters, feel that death, violence, crimes, are perfectly OK as long as God can somehow be enlisted to 'justify' it.
Banning handguns won't solve the problem as they have always been in existence in the USA since its inception and have never been thought to be a public hazard. This does not mean that we are a society free of historical violence. But years of Old West violence and public lynchings came to a halt a long time ago as we became more enlightened. The problem today is that we are again succumbing to ideas that were thought to be extinct a long time ago but which, somehow, have found their way back into the public mentality.
Violence is evil and there can be no justification or excuse for it. We must develop a culture that condemns violence and prejudice and replace it with the thought that tact and diplomacy is best in order to deal with difficulties.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 647
October 2nd, 2006, 05:38 PM
Gopher humans are inherently violent. No other species engages in the deliberate killing of its own the way humans do. Wars are a reflection of this violent propensity we have towards each other.
The struggle towards true humanity has to begin by creating societies where weapons are not easily obtainable for use. The western world has made great strides in building this type of society. Obviously wide spread gun ownership can only undermine the creation of this type of ideal universe.
So humans and weapons do not mix well and the best solution is to further this divide. This would be a 21st century solution.
Gopher humans are inherently violent. No other species engages in the deliberate killing of its own the way humans do. Wars are a reflection of this violent propensity we have towards each other.
The struggle towards true humanity has to begin by creating societies where weapons are not easily obtainable for use. The western world has made great strides in building this type of society. Obviously wide spread gun ownership can only undermine the creation of this type of ideal universe.
So humans and weapons do not mix well and the best solution is to further this divide. This would be a 21st century solution.
Time Out
Posts: 252
October 2nd, 2006, 09:10 PM
To bad the B**tard shot himself because this would have been a perfect situation to adapt Bush's prisoner tactics on a terrorist.
And no I don’t see all people as inherently violent I see all people as inherently wanting justice in their lives. If some one unjustly shoots and kills 8 children your damn right I want justice. If someone slanders me I want justice. Justice is a great deal different than violence.
To bad the B**tard shot himself because this would have been a perfect situation to adapt Bush's prisoner tactics on a terrorist.
And no I don’t see all people as inherently violent I see all people as inherently wanting justice in their lives. If some one unjustly shoots and kills 8 children your damn right I want justice. If someone slanders me I want justice. Justice is a great deal different than violence.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 647
October 2nd, 2006, 09:28 PM
Quoting feronia
Well I was referring to the human species in general. Human kill each other more than members of any other species I know of. So compared to these other species humans are indeed very violent. Not sure if you disagreeing with this at all negates the fact that humans are very violent as a species when compared to other species.
To bad the B**tard shot himself because this would have been a perfect situation to adapt Bush's prisoner tactics on a terrorist.
And no I don’t see all people as inherently violent I see all people as inherently wanting justice in their lives. If some one unjustly shoots and kills 8 children your damn right I want justice. If someone slanders me I want justice. Justice is a great deal different than violence.
And no I don’t see all people as inherently violent I see all people as inherently wanting justice in their lives. If some one unjustly shoots and kills 8 children your damn right I want justice. If someone slanders me I want justice. Justice is a great deal different than violence.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,029
October 2nd, 2006, 09:29 PM
There could be a rise in copy cat killings of basatrds going to schools and opening fire..
Quoting feronia
You raise an intertesting point, would this attack be classified as an act of Terrorism? What would make this bastard different from a suicide bomber in Israel? Both have intentions to kill as many innocent people as they can.. To bad the B**tard shot himself because this would have been a perfect situation to adapt Bush's prisoner tactics on a terrorist.
There could be a rise in copy cat killings of basatrds going to schools and opening fire..
Clever Clogs
Posts: 647
October 2nd, 2006, 09:34 PM
Quoting Johnny Utah
There could be a rise in copy cat killings of basatrds going to schools and opening fire..
This sentence would make a very effective anti-gun ad.
There could be a rise in copy cat killings of basatrds going to schools and opening fire..
Super Genius
Posts: 1,029
October 2nd, 2006, 10:08 PM
Quoting sanch
That was never my intention but if people think stronger gun laws would prevent something like this from happeing their dreaming. Anyone can get a gun no matter how strong the gun laws are, what if these attacks were done using knives? Will people start demanding a ban on knives? Or what if in this case the bastard used his car as a weapon and waited to run children down? Gun Laws have nothing to do with these attacks, it's a breakdown of society to the core..
This sentence would make a very effective anti-gun ad.
House Member
Posts: 4,494
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
October 2nd, 2006, 10:15 PM
`` The struggle towards true humanity has to begin by creating societies where weapons are not easily obtainable for use.``
While your intent is honorable, I view it as putting the proverbial cart before the horse. Instead of eliminating the weaponry, let us change the culture of violence and corruption -- thereafter the urge to possess weaponry will be extinguished. If you merely take away handguns, people will utilize rifles and other weaponry. Change the death oriented culture, and nobody will want the weapons. That's my way of putting the horse before the cart.
`` The struggle towards true humanity has to begin by creating societies where weapons are not easily obtainable for use.``
While your intent is honorable, I view it as putting the proverbial cart before the horse. Instead of eliminating the weaponry, let us change the culture of violence and corruption -- thereafter the urge to possess weaponry will be extinguished. If you merely take away handguns, people will utilize rifles and other weaponry. Change the death oriented culture, and nobody will want the weapons. That's my way of putting the horse before the cart.
Senate Member
Posts: 5,158
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
October 2nd, 2006, 11:44 PM
If humans are inherently violent, and we live in human society, it is necessary for us to maintain the means to defend ourselves.......or be a society of victims.
To take that a step further, if humanity has a need to dominate, a desire to rule, laws eliminating an armed population are an invitation to tyranny............
I personally prefer the violence of liberty to the peace of slavery.
Quoting sanch
You are missing something here, Sanch. Gopher humans are inherently violent. No other species engages in the deliberate killing of its own the way humans do. Wars are a reflection of this violent propensity we have towards each other.
The struggle towards true humanity has to begin by creating societies where weapons are not easily obtainable for use. The western world has made great strides in building this type of society. Obviously wide spread gun ownership can only undermine the creation of this type of ideal universe.
So humans and weapons do not mix well and the best solution is to further this divide. This would be a 21st century solution.
The struggle towards true humanity has to begin by creating societies where weapons are not easily obtainable for use. The western world has made great strides in building this type of society. Obviously wide spread gun ownership can only undermine the creation of this type of ideal universe.
So humans and weapons do not mix well and the best solution is to further this divide. This would be a 21st century solution.
If humans are inherently violent, and we live in human society, it is necessary for us to maintain the means to defend ourselves.......or be a society of victims.
To take that a step further, if humanity has a need to dominate, a desire to rule, laws eliminating an armed population are an invitation to tyranny............
I personally prefer the violence of liberty to the peace of slavery.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Posts: 6,516
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
Videos: 5
Location: Newfoundland!
October 3rd, 2006, 04:54 AM
I hate the use of guns against humans but it is true that it would be stupid to ban them. There are legitimate uses for guns and those that arent legitimate are all things likely to be either of no harm to anyone or done by a criminal, ie someone who won't obey any ban placed upon guns.
the only surefire way to prevent deaths like these is to ban humans.
Alternatively, in a more realistic sense, we could stop our kids playing with toy guns GUNS ARE NOT TOYS. we should avoid anything getting to children which glorifies fighting and shooting, and when they DO come into contact with it, we should explain to them just exactly how nasty REAL guns can REALLY be, and to never even play games without thinking about it.
I admit playing games can be fun, but as a child my choice of games was kept to the more fantasy kind, and shooting was only ever done ina cartoony way. Now as a grown up I happily play things like GTA san andreas, where I can easily have sex with a prostitute, chainsaw her to death and take my money back, then go to a burger bar and eat till i puke. As a grown up I think I can handle the idea that this is not glorifying the world of guns and violence but the world of computer games. Anyway the races and the planes are much more fun than the prostitutes...
I hate the use of guns against humans but it is true that it would be stupid to ban them. There are legitimate uses for guns and those that arent legitimate are all things likely to be either of no harm to anyone or done by a criminal, ie someone who won't obey any ban placed upon guns.
the only surefire way to prevent deaths like these is to ban humans.
Alternatively, in a more realistic sense, we could stop our kids playing with toy guns GUNS ARE NOT TOYS. we should avoid anything getting to children which glorifies fighting and shooting, and when they DO come into contact with it, we should explain to them just exactly how nasty REAL guns can REALLY be, and to never even play games without thinking about it.
I admit playing games can be fun, but as a child my choice of games was kept to the more fantasy kind, and shooting was only ever done ina cartoony way. Now as a grown up I happily play things like GTA san andreas, where I can easily have sex with a prostitute, chainsaw her to death and take my money back, then go to a burger bar and eat till i puke. As a grown up I think I can handle the idea that this is not glorifying the world of guns and violence but the world of computer games. Anyway the races and the planes are much more fun than the prostitutes...
House Member
Posts: 4,494
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
Location: Minnesota: Gopher State
October 3rd, 2006, 07:56 AM
Timothy McVeigh didn't use a gun. Yet he killed many innocents (the first floor of that Federal building was a child care center). In this incident yesterday, it wasn't the gun that killed those precious children. It was the sicko who did it.
Guns aren't sick. What is sick is a society that feels children are of no value and can be used as a means to vent one's frustrations over personal failures and because of one's low self esteem. The idea that violence is a good thing and that killing for the love of killing is acceptible, moral, and Christian -- whether it be in schools, daycare centers, or overseas in Iraq or Lebanon -- is the sickness, the social psychosis, that motivates the type of horror we saw in Pennsylvania and elsewhere.
Correct that sickness and then we will alleviate ourselves of the need for handguns.
Timothy McVeigh didn't use a gun. Yet he killed many innocents (the first floor of that Federal building was a child care center). In this incident yesterday, it wasn't the gun that killed those precious children. It was the sicko who did it.
Guns aren't sick. What is sick is a society that feels children are of no value and can be used as a means to vent one's frustrations over personal failures and because of one's low self esteem. The idea that violence is a good thing and that killing for the love of killing is acceptible, moral, and Christian -- whether it be in schools, daycare centers, or overseas in Iraq or Lebanon -- is the sickness, the social psychosis, that motivates the type of horror we saw in Pennsylvania and elsewhere.
Correct that sickness and then we will alleviate ourselves of the need for handguns.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 647
October 3rd, 2006, 08:28 AM
That is all true Colpy. Since our species emegered 200,000 years ago there has been constant fighting and wars. And from this logic each group should stay well armed in case a retaliatory strike is needed.
What I am proposing is a form of social evolution that would override whatever biological impulse exists to kill. This has almost been accomplished in many societies. I for example do not feel I need to own a gun for protection. That would not have been the case 100 years ago. Quite a large percentage of people feel the way that I do about needing a gun for protection. So great progress has been made.
That is all true Colpy. Since our species emegered 200,000 years ago there has been constant fighting and wars. And from this logic each group should stay well armed in case a retaliatory strike is needed.
What I am proposing is a form of social evolution that would override whatever biological impulse exists to kill. This has almost been accomplished in many societies. I for example do not feel I need to own a gun for protection. That would not have been the case 100 years ago. Quite a large percentage of people feel the way that I do about needing a gun for protection. So great progress has been made.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,434
Location: Tula
Location: Tula
October 3rd, 2006, 08:35 AM
I might get a little bit off this topic. But I do have a question. Several years ago, when the Columbine tragedy happened, I read a lot about it in different magazines and in the Internet. I got somewhat interested in the issue, and I read some more, about similar tragic occurences. And I still cannot understand the mani thing - what makes American kids kill each other? It seems to me, that school shootings are a purely American phenomena. And I am wondering - what could be so wrong with American system of education or with American family life that makes kids behave in such a savage and unexplicable way?
I might get a little bit off this topic. But I do have a question. Several years ago, when the Columbine tragedy happened, I read a lot about it in different magazines and in the Internet. I got somewhat interested in the issue, and I read some more, about similar tragic occurences. And I still cannot understand the mani thing - what makes American kids kill each other? It seems to me, that school shootings are a purely American phenomena. And I am wondering - what could be so wrong with American system of education or with American family life that makes kids behave in such a savage and unexplicable way?
