MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulation

[Karlin]

"Air current vital to climate weakens; humans blamed " :
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/268973_warm04.html

ATLANTA -- Atmospheric circulation over the Pacific Ocean has weakened significantly during the past century, and scientists say the most likely explanation for the shift is human-induced climate change.

Although few people have heard of the vast loop of winds known as the Walker Circulation, its effects are felt worldwide -- as disruptive El Niño episodes, seasonal Asian monsoons and the upwelling of cold water from the deep ocean that nourishes marine food chains.

"The Walker Circulation is fundamental to climate throughout the globe, and variations in its intensity and structure affect climate across the planet," Gabriel Vecchi of the University Corporation for Atmospheric Research said Wednesday. "The scale of this feature is enormous."

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This one has a good diagram of the Walker Circulation Loop:

http://www.girlsgofishing.com/
- this story is the FIRST one after you scroll past the headlines -

" Two driving forces which prevent catastrophic climate failure are disappearing, fast " - May 05/2006


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K - we have heard of the ocean currents that keep London warm are going to stop, and they will get Canadian winters like we used to get.

This Walker Circulation will have an effect - like what we are seeing now - in BC the weather just will not warm up, but China has 35oC a bit earlier than usual this season.

The kind of effects from Walker being weakened will be things we notice more easily, like cloudy rainy days instead of normal seasonal summer conditions. Maybe that will peeve people off enough to demand emissions reductions!!

Any government budget without emissions reductions is not worth anything.

 

[FiveParadox]

RE: MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulati

If the Government of Canada is quite determined to terminate the Kyoto Accord, and the climate change programs being run by Environment Canada, then they should have done so once they were ready to implement their own climate change program.

 

[BitWhys]

RE: MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulati

yeah but we've got a spiffy new slogan out of the PMO. you gotta luv that.

 

[I think not]

Re: MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulati

You're going in the opposite direction in terms of emissions anyway.

 

[BitWhys]

RE: MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulati

so we're supposed to welch?

 

[I think not]

Re: MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulati

No, you're supposed to do the right thing. Paying to be in Kyoto and not doing what you're supposed to be doing is.....dumb?

 

[BitWhys]

RE: MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulati

no its not.

the rationale behind Kyoto is that as a developed country, we pay for our ecological footprint. IMO if anything even keeping our promises to pony up we'd be getting off with a discount.

 

[I think not]

Re: MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulati

Paying for your ecological footprint doesn't do anything for the environment, the environment doesn't care about money, it cares about being treated with respect.

Kyoto transfers money from developed countries to less developed countries, carbon emissions are for sale online. If Canada exceeds it emissions, it pays, say Russia for the excess emissions it didn't use, and they were never going to anyway. So who loses? Canada and the environment, who gains? Russia.

Now if you don't have a problem paying other countries, then that's fine, but don't jump that anything is being done for the environment, becuase it isn't.

And also, Kyoto, isn't IMO a first step, this first step has been going on for 20 years.

 

[BitWhys]

RE: MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulati

gee

and here I thought market incentives were supposed to be a good thing.

 

[I think not]

Re: MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulati

Come on BitWhys, you're alot smarter than that, especially from what I have read with economics. What is the market incentive you have to ask yourself? Is it cheaper to abide by Kyoto or cheaper to pay a third world country? From the looks of it, its cheaper to pay a third world country. So where is the incentive?

 

[BitWhys]

RE: MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulati

at a glance carbon taxes make sense to me. more efficient companies would pay less tax and could lowball their prices.

 

[I think not]

Re: MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulati

Something isn't working though, BitWhys, would you agree? Canada is heading in the opposite direction, only a handful of countries that were polluting will meet Kyoto goals.

So there is a problem, isn't there? Or am I missing something?

 

[BitWhys]

Re: MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulati

Something isn't working though, BitWhys, would you agree? Canada is heading in the opposite direction, only a handful of countries that were polluting will meet Kyoto goals.

So there is a problem, isn't there? Or am I missing something?

There was no problem. The Government of Canada on our behalf had decided to allow emissions to increase for now in the interests of growing the economy. They even had money set aside for it. Two billion or something like that. It was a business decision. Now Harper is tearing up the deal and more than likely will be raiding the funds. Its a shame, really.

 

[I think not]

Re: MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulati

I don't agree with you, Kyoto wasn't implemented this year, it's been around, nothing has been done. Kyoto is due to expire in a few years, you lost the bandwagon.

It's a shame really, Canada used to be doing extremely well in the environment department many years ago, what happened I have no idea. You're not an environmental leader anymore.

 

[BitWhys]

RE: MORE global warming evidence/trouble - Walker Circulati

we need to do two things

1) get our act together and
2) honour our commitments

I don't see Harper doing either of them.

"Spayed in Canada" is more like it.