Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,885 
April 17th, 2006, 10:03 AM
Over the last year,
there have been quite a few home invasions where the occupants of the home have been beaten and robbed and even raped. In the case I picked off the news, the police arrived in time and one man was shot and killed and the other was eventually caught.
The thing that bothers me is that when these guys are convicted, they seem to get a slap on the wrist. Invading a person's home should be a more serious crime than shoplifting.
Police kill one man, wound another after Toronto home invasion
Last updated Apr 13 2006 10:00 AM EDT
CBC News
Police shot one man to death and wounded another early Thursday morning while responding to a home invasion in an upscale neighbourhood in north Toronto.
The invasion happened just after 5:30 a.m. at a home in the area of Bayview and Steeles avenues.
At least two people were sleeping when the invaders broke in. The Toronto Star reports that one of the family members called 911 on a cellphone and police arrived minutes later. The residents were taken to hospital with minor injuries.
York Regional Police said one of the invaders was fatally wounded as he tried to escape from police. The second man was also shot, but managed to escape.
Police pursued him, but lost him as he ran south through winding streets and backyards. Three hours later, they found him after another break-in was reported in a 911 call.
Children getting ready for school made the call while the man was in the house.
The Special Investigations Unit, which looks into all incidents when police are involved in fatalities or serious injury, has taken over the investigation.
Over the last year,
there have been quite a few home invasions where the occupants of the home have been beaten and robbed and even raped. In the case I picked off the news, the police arrived in time and one man was shot and killed and the other was eventually caught.
The thing that bothers me is that when these guys are convicted, they seem to get a slap on the wrist. Invading a person's home should be a more serious crime than shoplifting.
Police kill one man, wound another after Toronto home invasion
Last updated Apr 13 2006 10:00 AM EDT
CBC News
Police shot one man to death and wounded another early Thursday morning while responding to a home invasion in an upscale neighbourhood in north Toronto.
The invasion happened just after 5:30 a.m. at a home in the area of Bayview and Steeles avenues.
At least two people were sleeping when the invaders broke in. The Toronto Star reports that one of the family members called 911 on a cellphone and police arrived minutes later. The residents were taken to hospital with minor injuries.
York Regional Police said one of the invaders was fatally wounded as he tried to escape from police. The second man was also shot, but managed to escape.
Police pursued him, but lost him as he ran south through winding streets and backyards. Three hours later, they found him after another break-in was reported in a 911 call.
Children getting ready for school made the call while the man was in the house.
The Special Investigations Unit, which looks into all incidents when police are involved in fatalities or serious injury, has taken over the investigation.
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 3,859
Location: Victoria, BC
Location: Victoria, BC
April 17th, 2006, 10:18 AM
Seems like home invasions were a big hobby of criminals for a while but I hadn't heard about a lot of them recently. Does that mean there are less of them or just that we're immune and have stopped being shocked by them?
Quoting
Um, Jay ... I'm an NDPer yet I have to agree with you on this one. I agree that nothing deters a home invasion like looking down the barrel of a .45 or a shotgun!
Loosen gun control laws and these criminals will start getting the treatment they so dearly deserve.....Instead though we have Liberals wanting to ban handguns because in all reality they are on the criminals side.
Seems like home invasions were a big hobby of criminals for a while but I hadn't heard about a lot of them recently. Does that mean there are less of them or just that we're immune and have stopped being shocked by them?
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,885
April 17th, 2006, 10:20 AM
Unless Harper changes the gun laws,
they probably will not change. That said, there is nothing that says a man can't protect his home with a shotgun. I think part of the problem is the paltry sentences being handed down. The link is to a case where the home owners were brutally assaulted and the bastard got four years. Remember in Canada, "good behavior" gets a third knocked off the sentence.
link
Unless Harper changes the gun laws,
they probably will not change. That said, there is nothing that says a man can't protect his home with a shotgun. I think part of the problem is the paltry sentences being handed down. The link is to a case where the home owners were brutally assaulted and the bastard got four years. Remember in Canada, "good behavior" gets a third knocked off the sentence.
link
Running out of ranks
Posts: 8,366
April 17th, 2006, 10:31 AM
But you know you probably would be the only NDP member in the entire world who shares all these right wings views I have...
Quoting
Seems like home invasions were a big hobby of criminals for a while but I hadn't heard about a lot of them recently. Does that mean there are less of them or just that we're immune and have stopped being shocked by them?
Hi Cosmo Quoting
Um, Jay ... I'm an NDPer yet I have to agree with you on this one. I agree that nothing deters a home invasion like looking down the barrel of a .45 or a shotgun!
Loosen gun control laws and these criminals will start getting the treatment they so dearly deserve.....Instead though we have Liberals wanting to ban handguns because in all reality they are on the criminals side.
Seems like home invasions were a big hobby of criminals for a while but I hadn't heard about a lot of them recently. Does that mean there are less of them or just that we're immune and have stopped being shocked by them?
But you know you probably would be the only NDP member in the entire world who shares all these right wings views I have...
Running out of ranks
Posts: 8,366
April 17th, 2006, 10:35 AM
The law is on the criminals side.
Quoting
The shot gun must be locked up, with trigger locks, free of ammunition and the ammunition must be stored in its own locked box and if you do manage to get the fire arm out in time and shoot a home invader the judge will sentence you to prison for unlawful use of a fire arm. Unless Harper changes the gun laws,
they probably will not change. That said, there is nothing that says a man can't protect his home with a shotgun. I think part of the problem is the paltry sentences being handed down. The link is to a case where the home owners were brutally assaulted and the bastard got four years. Remember in Canada, "good behavior" gets a third knocked off the sentence.
link
they probably will not change. That said, there is nothing that says a man can't protect his home with a shotgun. I think part of the problem is the paltry sentences being handed down. The link is to a case where the home owners were brutally assaulted and the bastard got four years. Remember in Canada, "good behavior" gets a third knocked off the sentence.
link
The law is on the criminals side.
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,885
April 17th, 2006, 10:42 AM
Jay wrote:
is cheat, and lie like hell.
Jay wrote:
Quote:
What you do,
The shot gun must be locked up, with trigger locks, free of ammunition and the ammunition must be stored in its own locked box and if you do manage to get the fire arm out in time and shoot a home invader the judge will sentence you to prison for unlawful use of a fire arm.
is cheat, and lie like hell.
Super Genius
Posts: 1,029
April 17th, 2006, 11:09 AM
I don't have a gun in the house, I do have a German Shepherd/Husky Mix who is big and protective of his home. The biggest thing is people leave their screen doors open all day, never lock the front or back doors because they think it could never happen to them.
I don't have a gun in the house, I do have a German Shepherd/Husky Mix who is big and protective of his home. The biggest thing is people leave their screen doors open all day, never lock the front or back doors because they think it could never happen to them.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,982
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
April 17th, 2006, 12:15 PM
This is something I know about.
The problem is not JUST the mandated storage laws for firearms. Even if you have a loaded gun in your hand, you can only use it IF
1.) you are in IMMEDIATE danger of death or greivous bodily harm.
2.) you have no option of retreat.
In other words, if your home is invaded, you are legally obligated to RUN AWAY!
It used to be, 30 years ago, that you were justified in using whatever force was necessary to stop any criminal act. That was when we had some semblance of sanity in our laws.
This is something I know about.
The problem is not JUST the mandated storage laws for firearms. Even if you have a loaded gun in your hand, you can only use it IF
1.) you are in IMMEDIATE danger of death or greivous bodily harm.
2.) you have no option of retreat.
In other words, if your home is invaded, you are legally obligated to RUN AWAY!
It used to be, 30 years ago, that you were justified in using whatever force was necessary to stop any criminal act. That was when we had some semblance of sanity in our laws.
Steven Hawking's Tutor
Posts: 4,982
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
April 17th, 2006, 12:50 PM
And hope Jay and I are on the jury.
Johnny Utah as well.
Quoting
I'm with you on that, Juan, but I'd advise you to elect trial by judge and jury. Colpy
If someone breaks into my house while I'm there, he'd better have a weapon because I will have one. If he has a weapon, I hope he said his prayers first. I'm 67 years old , an ex professional man, I'll take my chances with the judge.
If someone breaks into my house while I'm there, he'd better have a weapon because I will have one. If he has a weapon, I hope he said his prayers first. I'm 67 years old , an ex professional man, I'll take my chances with the judge.
And hope Jay and I are on the jury.
Johnny Utah as well.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,976
April 17th, 2006, 12:54 PM
Juan I'm with you, beat the little plucker to death but let your wife do the deed. Explanation below.
I had a bad experience with the "Law" or lack there of. When I lived in Military Housing our area had over sixty break ins, the perp would kick the basement window in while the victims were eating supper and steal what ever he could get out of the basement window. Bold no!. I was getting out of the tub one evening and the motion censor light came on I went to the bedroom window and I saw a shadow in the back yard. I yelled to my husband to let the dog out and would he go see what was going on. I donned my jammies and headed for the back yard. My husband was yelling up into a tree in our yard "Get down or I'll drag you down." I called the MP's to report an intruder and the MP"s showed up. Well it appears a 12 year old armed with an ax and two knives was found in the tree. The MP's did the investigate the scene thingy and concluded that the Young male did indeed come on to my property with criminal intent, and was he was armed, and he had damaged my fence yada yada. The boy was only 12 so he couldn't be charged.
Heres the scary part the boys parents went to the City Police Station and filed charges against my husband, my husband was charged with "Uttering Death Threats" (he told the dog to get him Sparky) "Attempted Assult" for trying to get hold of the boys pant legs and the final charge "Uttering threats" when hubby told the kid he'd drag him out of the tree. So around midnight the MP's show up and read him his rights, I'm gobbed smacked stunned, the MP"s are really embarresed and very kind. The next day we had to hire a lawyer, inform his commanding officer, and he was placed under house arrest. Now hubby was only going to be home for two weeks, he was on leave in the middle of a 7 month deployment in Croatia. Long story short the Crown dropped the charges because the MP's sent a file folder full of information on what the kid did on our property and also detailed this 12 year old punks past crimes which included: Setting the Rec Center on Fire" Beating another kid into a coma on the play ground, beating another child with a baseball bat so badly he was in the hospital for three months. We ended up spending $2800 on legal fees, whow isn't justice grand. I still to this day don't know what this kid looks like. The City Police gave us this advice: Next time let your wife deal with the intruder, than it will be classified as a fair fight. So Juan give your wife the crow bar and cheer her on as she beats the little plucker half to death.
Juan I'm with you, beat the little plucker to death but let your wife do the deed. Explanation below.
I had a bad experience with the "Law" or lack there of. When I lived in Military Housing our area had over sixty break ins, the perp would kick the basement window in while the victims were eating supper and steal what ever he could get out of the basement window. Bold no!. I was getting out of the tub one evening and the motion censor light came on I went to the bedroom window and I saw a shadow in the back yard. I yelled to my husband to let the dog out and would he go see what was going on. I donned my jammies and headed for the back yard. My husband was yelling up into a tree in our yard "Get down or I'll drag you down." I called the MP's to report an intruder and the MP"s showed up. Well it appears a 12 year old armed with an ax and two knives was found in the tree. The MP's did the investigate the scene thingy and concluded that the Young male did indeed come on to my property with criminal intent, and was he was armed, and he had damaged my fence yada yada. The boy was only 12 so he couldn't be charged.
Heres the scary part the boys parents went to the City Police Station and filed charges against my husband, my husband was charged with "Uttering Death Threats" (he told the dog to get him Sparky) "Attempted Assult" for trying to get hold of the boys pant legs and the final charge "Uttering threats" when hubby told the kid he'd drag him out of the tree. So around midnight the MP's show up and read him his rights, I'm gobbed smacked stunned, the MP"s are really embarresed and very kind. The next day we had to hire a lawyer, inform his commanding officer, and he was placed under house arrest. Now hubby was only going to be home for two weeks, he was on leave in the middle of a 7 month deployment in Croatia. Long story short the Crown dropped the charges because the MP's sent a file folder full of information on what the kid did on our property and also detailed this 12 year old punks past crimes which included: Setting the Rec Center on Fire" Beating another kid into a coma on the play ground, beating another child with a baseball bat so badly he was in the hospital for three months. We ended up spending $2800 on legal fees, whow isn't justice grand. I still to this day don't know what this kid looks like. The City Police gave us this advice: Next time let your wife deal with the intruder, than it will be classified as a fair fight. So Juan give your wife the crow bar and cheer her on as she beats the little plucker half to death.
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,885
April 17th, 2006, 01:19 PM
One thing Sassy,
You can't be sure it will be a "little plucker" and my wrestling days are probably over. After the last home invasion in Nanaimo, I went looking in the boxes in our storage room(unused bedroom)and I found my old Remington pump shotgun that I thought I had given away. The damn thing is almost as heavy as Colpy's Browning High Power.(just kidding Colpy)
I cleaned it up and registered it and bought a lock box for the shells and a CCL trigger lock. The only amunition I have at the moment is #6 birdshot. I could probably only scare the bad guys away.
One thing Sassy,
You can't be sure it will be a "little plucker" and my wrestling days are probably over. After the last home invasion in Nanaimo, I went looking in the boxes in our storage room(unused bedroom)and I found my old Remington pump shotgun that I thought I had given away. The damn thing is almost as heavy as Colpy's Browning High Power.(just kidding Colpy)
I cleaned it up and registered it and bought a lock box for the shells and a CCL trigger lock. The only amunition I have at the moment is #6 birdshot. I could probably only scare the bad guys away.
the clan of the claw
Posts: 1,976
April 17th, 2006, 02:12 PM
the "home invasion"
do any of you recall when the term "home invasion" was first used?
It seems that this is a newer form of crime that may well be a reflection of changing demographics. Now that the population is aging, there are more "vulnerable" targets, as well as we always see an escalation in an activity so long as it is seen positively by the participating audience. What a great (sarcastic) way for a street thug to up his "creds" than to take on somebody on their house.
As for the punishment; should it come as little surprise given that for ever so long the laws have been set to protect the individual who treads on your "property"? These laws were designed to protect the "law abiding", not the "lawless".
The very foundation of society itself is the foundation of these "home invasions". People seek their status through the material, one way or another. As the costs of the material climb, but earnings and opportunities do not, there is an increasing number of those left with all the programming of "what is desired" yet no means of getting there, or perhaps more pertinent in the ever increasing "instant gratification" of the culture, no instant way of gaining these symbols, thus left with frustration and in a counter-culture of their own, some inveitably glorify the "kill" of such acts as "home invasions".
Materialism brought it to this.
the "home invasion"
do any of you recall when the term "home invasion" was first used?
It seems that this is a newer form of crime that may well be a reflection of changing demographics. Now that the population is aging, there are more "vulnerable" targets, as well as we always see an escalation in an activity so long as it is seen positively by the participating audience. What a great (sarcastic) way for a street thug to up his "creds" than to take on somebody on their house.
As for the punishment; should it come as little surprise given that for ever so long the laws have been set to protect the individual who treads on your "property"? These laws were designed to protect the "law abiding", not the "lawless".
The very foundation of society itself is the foundation of these "home invasions". People seek their status through the material, one way or another. As the costs of the material climb, but earnings and opportunities do not, there is an increasing number of those left with all the programming of "what is desired" yet no means of getting there, or perhaps more pertinent in the ever increasing "instant gratification" of the culture, no instant way of gaining these symbols, thus left with frustration and in a counter-culture of their own, some inveitably glorify the "kill" of such acts as "home invasions".
Materialism brought it to this.
Knows No Bounds
Posts: 2,976
April 17th, 2006, 02:40 PM
Home invasions usually consists of two males or one male and one female. They calculate and plan the invasion, they gather information on their target i.e. A friend of a friend tells them of the rich old gal that never leaves her house, it doesn't matter if that old gal isn't rich or old but a friend told them so it must be so? With a sense of "Intitlement" these thugs go to a home and attack and rob. Do they do this for material things, I don't think so. They pawn what they steal! They do it for money, usually so they can keep up the "Party until you die" life style they have become accustomed to. Do they care that the victim will never feel safe again? NO! These greedy little slime buckets feel their "Intitled" to take what ever they want, and if they should be broght to "Justice" a few months behind bars to learn "Better Home Invasion Tecniques 101" from their peers and they are back on to the streets to do more harm.
The system isn't working, these young people seem to have no conscience. I say young because I've never readed a case of a 30 year old being party to a "Home Invasion". I could be wrong.
Home invasions usually consists of two males or one male and one female. They calculate and plan the invasion, they gather information on their target i.e. A friend of a friend tells them of the rich old gal that never leaves her house, it doesn't matter if that old gal isn't rich or old but a friend told them so it must be so? With a sense of "Intitlement" these thugs go to a home and attack and rob. Do they do this for material things, I don't think so. They pawn what they steal! They do it for money, usually so they can keep up the "Party until you die" life style they have become accustomed to. Do they care that the victim will never feel safe again? NO! These greedy little slime buckets feel their "Intitled" to take what ever they want, and if they should be broght to "Justice" a few months behind bars to learn "Better Home Invasion Tecniques 101" from their peers and they are back on to the streets to do more harm.
The system isn't working, these young people seem to have no conscience. I say young because I've never readed a case of a 30 year old being party to a "Home Invasion". I could be wrong.
Chief Mogrifier
Posts: 8,885
April 17th, 2006, 02:48 PM
Caracal wrote:
up in value with the massive influx of immigration from Hong Kong/China. My son and his wife bought their first home in Vancouver six years ago and they have paid it off already. Is it their fault as well? I think there will always be a criminal element that want things other people have worked for. We have to control that criminal element.
Caracal wrote:
Quote:
You know, it is almost like you are saying it is the victim's fault. Lots of people including me, bought comparatively modest homes that rocketed
Materialism brought it to this.
up in value with the massive influx of immigration from Hong Kong/China. My son and his wife bought their first home in Vancouver six years ago and they have paid it off already. Is it their fault as well? I think there will always be a criminal element that want things other people have worked for. We have to control that criminal element.
