Hall of Fame Member
Posts: 10,505 
Location: The Evil Empire
Location: The Evil Empire
February 18th, 2006, 12:00 PM
Italian minister puts Mohammad cartoon on T-shirts
By Crispian Balmer | February 14, 2006
ROME (Reuters) - Italy's Reform Minister Roberto Calderoli has had T-shirts made emblazoned with cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad in a move that could embarrass Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's government.
Calderoli, a member of the anti-immigrant Northern League party, told Ansa news agency on Tuesday that the West had to stand up against Islamist extremists and offered to hand out T-shirts to anyone who wanted them.
"I have had T-shirts made with the cartoons that have upset Islam and I will start wearing them today," Ansa quoted Calderoli as saying.
He said the T-shirts were not meant to be a provocation but added that he saw no point trying to appease extremists.
"We have to put an end to this story that we can talk to these people. They only want to humiliate people. Full stop. And what are we becoming? The civilization of melted butter?" Calderoli said.
The publication of the cartoons in some European newspapers, including one showing an image of the prophet with a bomb for a turban, have provoked widespread anger in the Muslim world.
Many Muslims believe it is blasphemous to depict the Prophet and there have been a number of violent protests in the Middle East and Asia.
The Northern League, which is gearing up for an April general election, has leapt on the controversy to promote its own far-right political agenda.
RELIGIOUS WAR
The League has long led the charge against illegal immigration and its leaders say the cartoon violence shows the dangers of allowing Muslim immigrants to settle in Italy.
"This is only the tip of the iceberg of the religious war Islamist extremists have declared on us," Calderoli told reporters earlier this month.
The Italian press reported that Berlusconi last week urged Calderoli to take a more moderate stance over the issue, but the minister said on Tuesday he had no intention of keeping quiet.
"As for Berlusconi, seeing as he has compared himself to Jesus Christ, I would call on him to follow (Christ's) example and think about evangelizing Christian values and not be evangelized by Islam," Calderoli was quoted as saying.
Berlusconi caused a storm at the weekend when he said: "I am the Jesus Christ of politics...I sacrifice myself for everyone."
Maintaining a steady stream of anti-foreigner invective, Calderoli earlier this month dismissed a Palestinian journalist on a television chat show, as: "that suntanned lady." He also said he was delighted newcomers to Italy would not benefit from a government scheme to encourage people to have more children.
"I am proud of the fact that the baby bonus will only go to Italian citizens. I say to all those Ali Babas that either Allah or their governments will have to think of them."
The League's anti-immigrant stance has found a sympathetic audience in the wealthy north of Italy, where many third world immigrants have settled in recent years.
League politicians say the immigrants are responsible for growing crime rates and are also challenging Italians for jobs.
Latest opinion polls say the League will get up to six percent of the vote in the April election against just 3.9 percent in the 2001 ballot. However, it is not clear what part the anti-immigrant rhetoric has played in this increase.
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Italian minister puts Mohammad cartoon on T-shirts
By Crispian Balmer | February 14, 2006
ROME (Reuters) - Italy's Reform Minister Roberto Calderoli has had T-shirts made emblazoned with cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad in a move that could embarrass Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi's government.
Calderoli, a member of the anti-immigrant Northern League party, told Ansa news agency on Tuesday that the West had to stand up against Islamist extremists and offered to hand out T-shirts to anyone who wanted them.
"I have had T-shirts made with the cartoons that have upset Islam and I will start wearing them today," Ansa quoted Calderoli as saying.
He said the T-shirts were not meant to be a provocation but added that he saw no point trying to appease extremists.
"We have to put an end to this story that we can talk to these people. They only want to humiliate people. Full stop. And what are we becoming? The civilization of melted butter?" Calderoli said.
The publication of the cartoons in some European newspapers, including one showing an image of the prophet with a bomb for a turban, have provoked widespread anger in the Muslim world.
Many Muslims believe it is blasphemous to depict the Prophet and there have been a number of violent protests in the Middle East and Asia.
The Northern League, which is gearing up for an April general election, has leapt on the controversy to promote its own far-right political agenda.
RELIGIOUS WAR
The League has long led the charge against illegal immigration and its leaders say the cartoon violence shows the dangers of allowing Muslim immigrants to settle in Italy.
"This is only the tip of the iceberg of the religious war Islamist extremists have declared on us," Calderoli told reporters earlier this month.
The Italian press reported that Berlusconi last week urged Calderoli to take a more moderate stance over the issue, but the minister said on Tuesday he had no intention of keeping quiet.
"As for Berlusconi, seeing as he has compared himself to Jesus Christ, I would call on him to follow (Christ's) example and think about evangelizing Christian values and not be evangelized by Islam," Calderoli was quoted as saying.
Berlusconi caused a storm at the weekend when he said: "I am the Jesus Christ of politics...I sacrifice myself for everyone."
Maintaining a steady stream of anti-foreigner invective, Calderoli earlier this month dismissed a Palestinian journalist on a television chat show, as: "that suntanned lady." He also said he was delighted newcomers to Italy would not benefit from a government scheme to encourage people to have more children.
"I am proud of the fact that the baby bonus will only go to Italian citizens. I say to all those Ali Babas that either Allah or their governments will have to think of them."
The League's anti-immigrant stance has found a sympathetic audience in the wealthy north of Italy, where many third world immigrants have settled in recent years.
League politicians say the immigrants are responsible for growing crime rates and are also challenging Italians for jobs.
Latest opinion polls say the League will get up to six percent of the vote in the April election against just 3.9 percent in the 2001 ballot. However, it is not clear what part the anti-immigrant rhetoric has played in this increase.
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Executive Member
Posts: 9,534
February 18th, 2006, 12:31 PM
I repeat,
The people responsible for the rioting are the religious clerics. The Average Muslim would normally, never see these cartoons but for these clowns. If they gave a stern warning to the religious leaders, this thing might be allowed to die down.
I repeat,
The people responsible for the rioting are the religious clerics. The Average Muslim would normally, never see these cartoons but for these clowns. If they gave a stern warning to the religious leaders, this thing might be allowed to die down.
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 4,465
Videos: 1
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
Videos: 1
Location: Surrey, British Columbia
February 18th, 2006, 01:26 PM
What possible purpose does this serve?
It sounds to me like people seem to have the mindset "I am going to wear these shirts, because pissing off Muslims is fun." Is this really the case? Shame on anyone who would have such a mindset! This is growing quite tiresome. If you have the freedom to wear a Muslim-offending shirt, you also have the right to choose not to.
What possible purpose does this serve?
It sounds to me like people seem to have the mindset "I am going to wear these shirts, because pissing off Muslims is fun." Is this really the case? Shame on anyone who would have such a mindset! This is growing quite tiresome. If you have the freedom to wear a Muslim-offending shirt, you also have the right to choose not to.
House Member
Posts: 2,505
Location: SW Ontario
Location: SW Ontario
February 18th, 2006, 02:13 PM
This is not about cartoons or caricatures or hate. It's about live and let live.
Now, back to my Danish. Mmmmm.
Quoting
No, not bacause pissing off muslims is fun, but because muslims are threatening our freedom to make the choice you speak of. The muslim world is calling for the death of a westerner, in a western land, for breaking Islamic law. That is exactly the threat the Jyllens-Posten was attempting to bring to light in the first place.
What possible purpose does this serve?
It sounds to me like people seem to have the mindset "I am going to wear these shirts, because pissing off Muslims is fun." Is this really the case? Shame on anyone who would have such a mindset! This is growing quite tiresome. If you have the freedom to wear a Muslim-offending shirt, you also have the right to choose not to.
It sounds to me like people seem to have the mindset "I am going to wear these shirts, because pissing off Muslims is fun." Is this really the case? Shame on anyone who would have such a mindset! This is growing quite tiresome. If you have the freedom to wear a Muslim-offending shirt, you also have the right to choose not to.
This is not about cartoons or caricatures or hate. It's about live and let live.
Now, back to my Danish. Mmmmm.
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 3,786
Location: Toronto
Location: Toronto
February 18th, 2006, 02:16 PM
I don't know I can see both sides of this story. To a point where it appears the Islamic world is protesting and burning down Embassies and restraints for what westerners see as a basic freedom of speech issue, wearing a T-shirt with the cartoon on it is our passive aggressive way of showing our displeasure with the violence of the Islamic world, where the Islamic world is just aggressive. Though wearing the shirts totally doesn't help the situation.
I don't know I can see both sides of this story. To a point where it appears the Islamic world is protesting and burning down Embassies and restraints for what westerners see as a basic freedom of speech issue, wearing a T-shirt with the cartoon on it is our passive aggressive way of showing our displeasure with the violence of the Islamic world, where the Islamic world is just aggressive. Though wearing the shirts totally doesn't help the situation.
Member
Posts: 79
Location: Oman
Location: Oman
February 19th, 2006, 09:40 AM
I think it's ridiculous to even be upset over the cartoons...and he was probably trying to make that point...buddha is sold in shops as tokens or greet you when you enter an asian restaurant...jesus has been replaced by a santa claus...everywhere you go you see bumper stickers or listen to comedians tearing up religions...there are books out their that suggest they don't exist, that jesus was a homosexual, etc...
moslems should be exempt from being made fun of...exempt from being mocked or ridiculed?
I think they need to get a sense of humor and lighten up...or at the very least loosen the turban because it might be cutting off circulation to their brains.
I think it's ridiculous to even be upset over the cartoons...and he was probably trying to make that point...buddha is sold in shops as tokens or greet you when you enter an asian restaurant...jesus has been replaced by a santa claus...everywhere you go you see bumper stickers or listen to comedians tearing up religions...there are books out their that suggest they don't exist, that jesus was a homosexual, etc...
moslems should be exempt from being made fun of...exempt from being mocked or ridiculed?
I think they need to get a sense of humor and lighten up...or at the very least loosen the turban because it might be cutting off circulation to their brains.
Senate Member
Posts: 5,583
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
February 19th, 2006, 11:41 AM
Two points:
The Danes, as a free society beseiged by twelfth century religious fanatics, deserve our support. Let's print the cartoons, wear them, declare we will not put up with this crap. If the Islamist lunatics wish to take offense at our freedom, let them take offense at the entire free world.
****'em.
Defiance counts, as does solidarity.
And the Danes have shown. In world War II, Denmark was occupied by the German Army in 1940. the Danish king chose to stay in Denmark, and rode through the capital, alone and unescorted, every morning to show the flag.
Jews in Denmark never wore the Star of David. The story is that the King swore if one Dane had to wear it, all Danes would wear it.
In August of 1943 a state of energency was announced in Denmark, and the government discovered that the Germans were going to round up Denmark's 7,500 Jews. Collection day was to be October 1. The Danes informed the Rabbi, who advised his flock to go into hiding on Sept. 29. They were hidden in hospitals, private homes, and eventually most were smuggled to Sweden by Danish fishermen.
Out of 7,500 Jews, the Germans managed to arrest and transport just 481.
Defiance counts.
Two points:
The Danes, as a free society beseiged by twelfth century religious fanatics, deserve our support. Let's print the cartoons, wear them, declare we will not put up with this crap. If the Islamist lunatics wish to take offense at our freedom, let them take offense at the entire free world.
****'em.
Defiance counts, as does solidarity.
And the Danes have shown. In world War II, Denmark was occupied by the German Army in 1940. the Danish king chose to stay in Denmark, and rode through the capital, alone and unescorted, every morning to show the flag.
Jews in Denmark never wore the Star of David. The story is that the King swore if one Dane had to wear it, all Danes would wear it.
In August of 1943 a state of energency was announced in Denmark, and the government discovered that the Germans were going to round up Denmark's 7,500 Jews. Collection day was to be October 1. The Danes informed the Rabbi, who advised his flock to go into hiding on Sept. 29. They were hidden in hospitals, private homes, and eventually most were smuggled to Sweden by Danish fishermen.
Out of 7,500 Jews, the Germans managed to arrest and transport just 481.
Defiance counts.
Member
Posts: 79
Location: Oman
Location: Oman
February 19th, 2006, 10:33 PM
Hmmmm, as I see it, the main problem is that these people who are demonstrating don't even know the tenets of their own religion.
How many of them could cite the six pillars of Islam?
Are they aware that ALL images effigies and icons of ANY prophet, saint, angel, or of God are prohibited? Mohammed is only one prophet recognised by Islam. If you read the holy Koran you will see that Mohammed is mentioned only once, in his introduction. Jesus, on the other hand, is mentioned some 40 times I would bet that they don't know that either!
Then we get to the reasoning behind the prohibition. In the time of Mohammed, Godlessness and idolatry was apparently rampant. The prohibition was largely to counteract idolatery. Mohammed and his followers were very self-effacing; once again deliberately so as not to detract in any way from the importance of God and his teaching. This was another reason for avoiding icons and images. To pay undue attention to the messenger may obfuscate the message?
However, the Moslems have accepted that imagery is a fundamental part of the Christian tradition without any problem. So, to react against images of Mohammed implies that he is more important than any of the other prophets (that was NOT his message) and is inconsistent.
They are completely wrong to react in the way that they are, this is just "rent a mob" which is probably why the Libyans shot so many of them. After all, if an infidel blasphemes who cares, that is to be expected, and they will go to hell. Similarly, if you believe that the name of Allah and his prophets need human protection, that is in itself blasphemy, and you will be joining the infidels Allah can look after himself and his own.
Hmmmm, as I see it, the main problem is that these people who are demonstrating don't even know the tenets of their own religion.
How many of them could cite the six pillars of Islam?
Are they aware that ALL images effigies and icons of ANY prophet, saint, angel, or of God are prohibited? Mohammed is only one prophet recognised by Islam. If you read the holy Koran you will see that Mohammed is mentioned only once, in his introduction. Jesus, on the other hand, is mentioned some 40 times I would bet that they don't know that either!
Then we get to the reasoning behind the prohibition. In the time of Mohammed, Godlessness and idolatry was apparently rampant. The prohibition was largely to counteract idolatery. Mohammed and his followers were very self-effacing; once again deliberately so as not to detract in any way from the importance of God and his teaching. This was another reason for avoiding icons and images. To pay undue attention to the messenger may obfuscate the message?
However, the Moslems have accepted that imagery is a fundamental part of the Christian tradition without any problem. So, to react against images of Mohammed implies that he is more important than any of the other prophets (that was NOT his message) and is inconsistent.
They are completely wrong to react in the way that they are, this is just "rent a mob" which is probably why the Libyans shot so many of them. After all, if an infidel blasphemes who cares, that is to be expected, and they will go to hell. Similarly, if you believe that the name of Allah and his prophets need human protection, that is in itself blasphemy, and you will be joining the infidels Allah can look after himself and his own.
