Democracy in Iraq ... Free Election on Constitution

Nascar_James

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Jun 6, 2005
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For those skeptics who were against removing Saddam from power, what do they say now? The people of Iraq have spoken through a free election on an Iraqi Constitution. How was this possible? Through the sacrifices of American and Coalition troops.

On the prior Constitution election under Saddam, election results showed that he had received 100 perecent of the vote, with 100 percent turnout. To anyone who buys such a statement, I have some ...er property that I need to sell.

Free Elections in Iraq - Reuters

Provinces in focus as Iraq counts votes
Sat Oct 15, 2005 6:19 PM ET

By Andrew Quinn
BAGHDAD (Reuters) - Iraqi officials counted ballots on Sunday after a historic vote on a U.S.-backed constitution with the fate of the document in the hands of a few provinces where Sunnis may muster enough "No" votes to block it.

A massive security clampdown prevented any serious insurgent attacks on voting day, with only scattered strikes reported around the country after months of Sunni Arab militant bloodshed that has killed thousands.

Election officials said partial results from the vote could be available as early as Sunday, but that it would take several days for the verdict to become clear.

If the constitution passes Iraq will go to the polls again in December to elect a new, four-year parliament in a step that Washington says will mark its full emergence as a sovereign democracy and new Western ally.

A "No" vote would force the country's warring factions back to the drawing board, limiting December's election to a new interim government to redraft the charter.

Most of Iraq's 18 provinces were expected to support the constitution, following Shi'ite and Kurdish government leaders who have tailored many of its provisions to their needs.

But it could still be blocked if two thirds of the voters in at least three provinces reject it.

Electoral officials said as many as 10 million of Iraq's eligible 15.5 million voters cast ballots, which would give a turnout of around 65 percent -- higher than the 58 percent recorded in January when the country went to the polls for the first time since Saddam Hussein's 2003 overthrow.

Despite the uncertainty, Saturday's election won praise from the United Nations and the Bush Administration.

"The vote today is an important milestone. They will have elections in December for a permanent government. Every time the Iraqi people have been given an opportunity to express themselves politically they have taken it," U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice told the BBC in an interview.

The White House praised the large turnout in the referendum and the calm relative to the January election of an interim government when more than 40 people were killed in more than 100 insurgent attacks, including suicide bombings.

"It appears that the level of violence was well below the last election," White House spokesman Allen Abney said.

"Today's vote deals a severe blow to the ambitions of the terrorists and sends a clear message to the world that the people of Iraq will decide the future of their country through peaceful elections, not violent insurgencies," he added.

Saturday's ballot came exactly three years to the day after Iraq's last constitutional referendum, which asked voters if they wanted to extend Saddam's rule by seven years. The results gave Saddam 100 percent on a 100 percent turnout in a gesture of defiance toward a U.S. administration set on toppling him.

This year Iraq's sectarian feuds have ruled out such an unambiguous outcome, with many Sunnis fearful Iraq may break up into Shi'ite and Kurdish spheres that will deprive them of both power and oil.

At least two Sunni-dominated provinces -- Anbar to the west and Salahadin around Saddam's hometown of Tikrit -- are all but certain to vote heavily "No". An electoral official in Tikrit itself, Saleh Farah, said votes against the constitution in the city were 43,571 -- or 96 percent of those voting.

The key could lie in the northern province of Nineveh and the city of Mosul. Sitting some 400 km (250 miles) north of Baghdad, Mosul has a volatile mix of about two million Sunni Arabs and Kurds near some of Iraq's richest oil fields.

Arabs accuse Kurdish leaders, whose autonomous region of Kurdistan lies just outside the city, of packing Mosul with Kurds. The Kurds deny this, but it is unclear if Sunni opponents of the constitution can rally the numbers to swing the province to the "No" camp and defeat the constitution nationally.

Few were betting on the outcome, and at least one prominent Sunni leader said that the real answer to Sunni fears may be to seek changes within the new political system.

"If we are certain that no serious infringements or fraud have occurred, then we will deal seriously with the new reality," said Hussein al-Falluji, who negotiated on the current version of the constitution.

"We're focusing on taking part in the coming election at full strength to create a new balance in parliament and then we will act firmly to amend the constitution."
 

no1important

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RE: Democracy in Iraq ...

For those skeptics who were against removing Saddam from power, what do they say now? The people of Iraq have spoken through a free election on an Iraqi Constitution. How was this possible? Through the sacrifices of American and Coalition troops.

Doesn't change anything. US still destroyed a sovereign country illegally that posed no threat to it.

The Iraqi people when they wake up tomorrow will not see a diference. Things are going to get a lot worse before they even start getting better.
 

Hard-Luck Henry

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Feb 19, 2005
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Don't play the "You liberals wanted to keep Saddam in power" card round here, James; it really is not worthy of comment.

Have you seen the result of this referendum yet, James?

I don't suppose you're very interested in how this constitution was drafted, or what it contains?

This is a complicated document (25 pages in the English version), that has been fully drafted without consulting the Iraqi people, and Iraqis are now supposed to give a Yes or No answer to the whole thing in a referendum. Democracy, you say?

Are you aware, for instance, that the Iraqi Parliament that drafted this highly flawed, contradictory document has a huge Shia/Kurd bias, and that - if it's accepted - their resistance to federalism will mean that the Sunni dominated areas of Iraq may well be deprived of all-important oil revenues?

That could lead to civil war, James, not democracy.

Democracy, my arse. You don't know what you're talking about - Don't waste our time, copying and pasting your neocon-owned media propaganda.

Go and read the draft constitution for yourself, and then come back and give us your "opinion". How would you vote, or is just the fact that they're allowed to vote that you find so edifying?

]Text of the draft Iraqi constitution
 

Nascar_James

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Hard-Luck Henry said:
Democracy, my arse. You don't know what you're talking about - Don't waste our time, copying and pasting your neocon-owned media propaganda.

Go and read the draft constitution for yourself, and then come back and give us your "opinion". How would you vote, or is just the fact that they're allowed to vote that you find so edifying?

]Text of the draft Iraqi constitution

Copying and pasting my neocon-owned media propaganda, Henry? Well at least I read what I copied and pasted. As for you, it's obvious you haven't since YOU POSTED YOUR COMMENTS TWICE ... IN THE SAME POST...before you edited it.

By the way, Reuters has a moderate viewpoint and does not lean to the right.
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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RE: Democracy in Iraq ...

You do keep trying to play the "You liberals wanted to keep Saddam in power" card a lot James. Of course if you knew anything at all, you'd know us progressives were opposing Saddam when your heroes were still his best buddies.

Beyond that, you have no understanding of the situation in Iraq at all. Nor will you take the time to develop one because that would require you to examine the motives of your leaders and the real results of their actions.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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I like the fact that it was a new constitution, and needed a 2/3 NO vote to block it....that's an interesting way to guarantee success.

I can see the next US elections: A 2/3 majority required to vote against a republican president....
 

Jo Canadian

Council Member
Mar 15, 2005
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PEI...for now
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Hard Luck Henry?

I don't see how we outsider Westerners can demand a more perfect union. Perhaps as outsiders as voyeurs of the news of this constitution how can we possibly appreciate what it took just to achieve even this faulty document ?

It may be that this process of constitutionalism will lead in a path that may be the best compromise for a fragile peace as they preserve what new found power they have?

We cannot expect the Kurds and Shia to be as charitable as you are to the Sunni and of course you know that and of course you understandably believe this will lead to full fledged civil war.

I'm thinking another possibility.

Like a python the Shia and Kurds will squeeze the Sunni and they feel the gathering muscle crunch.

If the Sunni's only hope to get something is by making peace and not infuriating the Shia and Kurds by bombing their mosques and killing their children, they got an opening, they will get a little something and maybe...

maybe this minority will learn to live among the majority who has shown an amazing restraint, due to the tall shadow of respect cast by Sistani.

We outsiders have no idea what restraint the two major groups in Iraq have shown.
 

Hard-Luck Henry

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Feb 19, 2005
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RE: Democracy in Iraq ...

We've done this elsewhere, Jim, quite recently, if I rememeber. There's a reason the Shia can afford to act so "restrained". I won't repeat myself here. (Although I'm not sure those 169 men and children found in a torture chamber last week would appreciate that sort of restraint. Or the ones found with holes drilled in their skulls. Or the ones that don't get found).
 

jimmoyer

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Apr 3, 2005
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To Hard Luck Henry:

The Shia remember what the Sunni under Saddam did to their families and relatives. And still they are reaching out to those Sunni who wish no longer this vicious power play. You'll continue to see the cycle of revenge play out here and there, but the overall movement is towards a settlement and the rule of law.

We'll see how it all settles out, but a forward direction is slowly gathering.

I'm not sure the a negative or a positive prejudice can claim the truth on the future of Iraq.

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