Lakeside Packers/ Tyson strike

Lakeside Packers/ Tyson strike

no1important

#1Oct 13th, 2005

I see this dispute got violent yesterday. I see company is trying to union bust. They "Tyson" rejected deal government proposed, even though workers voted 90% in favour. Picketing is also limited now.

- Scabs allowed to be used in Alberta (I guess this should not surprise me). It is terrible a province allows scabs.

-many of the workers are immigrants who want job stability.

- that racism seems to be alive and well in Brooks.

Alberta Labour Board Limits Lakeside Packers Strikers

Workers back inside Lakeside Packers

Province staying out of Lakeside strike

Terrible Tyson

Busloads of workers evade picket line

Reverend Blair

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 13th, 2005

Tyson has a long history of union busitng and bargaining in bad faith. So does the Alberta government. We need national anti-scab legislation and pro-worker legislation in regard to collective bargaining practices.

Right now we should be shutting down the Tyson plant and giving the assets to the workers.

MMMike

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tyson strike

Oct 13th, 2005

These pickets should be forcibly removed. They don't own the plant - what right do they have to shut it down?

no1important

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 13th, 2005

Didn't lakeside/Tyson rip the farmers off as well during bse crisis, if memory serves me.

Reverend Blair

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 13th, 2005

Yup, Tyson was found in contempt of Parliament along with Cargill. The Conservatives refused to impose a fine.

They have every right to shut it down, MMMike. That's what happens when companies try to rip off their workers.

MMMike

Re: RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 13th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

Yup, Tyson was found in contempt of Parliament along with Cargill. The Conservatives refused to impose a fine.

They have every right to shut it down, MMMike. That's what happens when companies try to rip off their workers.

So if I'm understanding you, workers should decide themselves what they should get paid, and if the company doesn't agree, they shut it down? Sounds kind of one-way, don't ya think?

Hank C Cheyenne

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tyson strike

Oct 13th, 2005

...its usually what youd expect from an uneducated Green party voter....

Reverend Blair

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 13th, 2005

That's because you aren't understanding the way it works. Both sides have a position and then they bargain and reach a compromise. There has to be give and take.

Tyson doesn't do that though. They walk into meetings, tell the union reps to piss off, then try to bust the union. They've got a long record of doing that. It's called bargaining in bad faith and there needs to be severe penalties for doing so.

MMMike

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tyson strike

Oct 13th, 2005

There is no give and take and negotiating back and forth, there is only fair market value. This not only applies to widgets, it also applies to the skills you try to sell on the job market. If someone has the same skills as you and will sell those skills for less than you are asking, guess who gets the job? If Tyson is so bad and is not willing to pay fair market wages, the workers can take their skills and go elsewhere.

Reverend Blair

#10

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 13th, 2005

Except that the companies have all of the power in a situation like that, Mike. They have the power not to pay fair market value.

What you describe would work if there several small packing plants in the area, but there aren't. There's Tyson. There's Cargill. That's about it for western Canada.

The right to organise is recognised by the United Nations and every developed nation, by the way. The system you are supporting exists in oligarchies and dictatorships.

The reason that the right to organise is recognised is because we've seen what the world looks like when that right doesn't exist.

MMMike

#11

Re: RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 13th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

Except that the companies have all of the power in a situation like that, Mike. They have the power not to pay fair market value.

What you describe would work if there several small packing plants in the area, but there aren't. There's Tyson. There's Cargill. That's about it for western Canada.

The right to organise is recognised by the United Nations and every developed nation, by the way. The system you are supporting exists in oligarchies and dictatorships.

The reason that the right to organise is recognised is because we've seen what the world looks like when that right doesn't exist.

I will concede that we need a strong competition act. That is a complete red herring, though. There are lots of other places to work other than a packing plant. If the wage Cargill offers is too low, no one will work there.

Reverend Blair

#12

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 13th, 2005

There aren't really a lot of choices. First of all, a lot of immigrants moved to Brooks because they could work in the packing plant. Tyson encouraged them to do so. They have few other skills, many don't understand our system, and a lot of them are afraid of deportation if they lose their jobs. Because so many of them are African, they also face prejudice when looking for other jobs. Their credentials and educations often aren't considered adequate.

Tyson has them over a barrel. All they are doing is trying not get stuffed in that barrel.

I know a lot of people on the right hate unions as a matter of political ideology, Mike. The truth is that without unions you'd be working twelve hours a day for six or seven days a week though. You'd have no benefits, little (if any) vacation time, far more dangerous workplace conditions, low wages, and absolutely no job security.

That was the situation in this country less than a century ago. A lot of people suffered a lot of abuse, some were killed, to get you the rights that you have today. If you and others are successful in your constant attacks on the unions, we'll be back to where we were before the 1919 strike within a decade.

PoisonPete2

#13

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tyson strike

Oct 13th, 2005

it is a typical story of exploitation and union bashing. That it still happens in Canada is an indictment against our governing bodies and the ignorance of our citizenry.

MMMike

#14

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tyson strike

Oct 14th, 2005

Unions had a place back in the day of the industrial revolution to fill in for the lack of h&s regulations and employment standards. That day has long passed. Now they are just an impediment to efficiency and progress. Swimming against the current of economic reality.

Reverend Blair

#15

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 14th, 2005

The current reality is that without unions and an organised labour movement, corporations would lobby the government to reduce health and safety regulations and the government would comply. You'd see unpaid overtime become the order of the day. You'd lose your rights as a worker.

Unions are very much needed to keep corporations from abusing their employees. Without unions, there would be no regulations.

MMMike

#16

Re: Lakeside Packers/ Tyson strike

Oct 15th, 2005

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...tory/National/

Quote:

Union members at a strikebound slaughterhouse in southern Alberta called Saturday for attempted murder charges in a car crash that injured their leader.

Nascar_James

#17

Re: Lakeside Packers/ Tyson strike

Oct 15th, 2005

Tyson has every right to not have a union at it's company if it so chooses. Those individuals protesting are free to choose where they work. That is the beauty of our society, we pick where we want to work.

Unionizing a company means more costs for the company, which means higher prices, which means less business, which means layoffs. Not very efficient when looking at the big picture.

no1important

#18

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 15th, 2005

Thankfully we do not have "right to work" laws like 22 states in America do, including yours Nascar.

People have the right to join a union. Tyson has no say in the matter. The workers want a union so they have one. They do not want to work for Wal Mart wages.

Nascar_James

#19

Re: RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 15th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by no1important

Thankfully we do not have "right to work" laws like 22 states in America do, including yours Nascar.

People have the right to join a union. Tyson has no say in the matter. The workers want a union so they have one. They do not want to work for Wal Mart wages.

Ahhh ... good old Oklahoma.

Hank C Cheyenne

#20

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tyson strike

Oct 15th, 2005

....its not fair for the workers who don't want to be part of a union...why should they have to sit out...... and the threatning and breaking of windows is not acceptable.... and they think they can just block buses of workers to keep them from doing their job...what about their rights to work in a free country...

...if a worker is not happy with the pay then what the hell is keeping them there...there are jobs everywhere...

...unions are a cause for lots of lost revenues and it is a fact that unionized workers have a higher rate of absenteeism.....but I'm just saying we need to protect the rights of the workers who want no part of a union.

no1important

#21

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 15th, 2005

Man Hank you and Nero repeat the same old same over and over.

Why shouldn't people make a descent wage and benefits? Tyson ripped the farmers off from bse and are now trying to exploit workers. At least in BC we have anti scab law thankfully and even the right wing Liberals here never got rid of that law.

Nascar_James

#22

Re: RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 15th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by no1important

Man Hank you and Nero repeat the same old same over and over.

Why shouldn't people make a descent wage and benefits? Tyson ripped the farmers off from bse and are now trying to exploit workers. At least in BC we have anti scab law thankfully and even the right wing Liberals here never got rid of that law.

Right Wing Liberals?????

no1important

#23

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 15th, 2005

left wing liberals

I am so far left I have not seen my right side in years

MMMike

#24

Re: RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 15th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by no1important

Thankfully we do not have "right to work" laws like 22 states in America do, including yours Nascar.

People have the right to join a union. Tyson has no say in the matter. The workers want a union so they have one. They do not want to work for Wal Mart wages.

And Tyson should have the right to fire the lot of them if they can hire new workers who will work just as well for less money. Unions are all about inefficiency and protecting the weakest, dumbest, laziest workers. A good friend of mine who was a godamn hard worker got hired for a union position in a big plant. He told me all kinds of stories - all the old guys with such a sense of entitlement.... He got told all the time to slow down because he was working too fast. Promotions not based on merit, but "seniority". That sums up unions for me.

no1important

#25

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 15th, 2005

well we may as well legalize slavery ..........

MMMike

#26

RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tyson strike

Oct 15th, 2005

And then there's the time a worker got drunk, and came to work with a shotgun to kill his boss. He was charged, and of course fired. The union field a grievance over it!!

MMMike

#27

Re: RE: Lakeside Packers/ Tys

Oct 15th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by no1important

well we may as well legalize slavery ..........

Sorry no1, i'm with Hank & Nascar on this one... these people are completely free to find a job elsewhere. Where do you get slavery from that?

Vanni Fucci

#28

Re: Lakeside Packers/ Tyson strike

Oct 15th, 2005

What sums it up for me is that if there was no labour movement in Canada, there would be places that payed their employees far less than minimum wage, and would work them for 60 hours or more a week...labour legislations arose from the labour movement which was started by the unions...

I agree that there are some disadvantages to unions, the entitlement issue being among the worst...but in the end they fulfill their mandates, for the most part, which is to protect the workers from unfair treatment by their employers...and nothing I've read here by the more conservative minded posters gives me any confidence that were unions to be abolished tomorrow, that we wouldn't be back to pre-1918 employment standards by next week...

Hank, you were going on about Tommy Douglas earlier...and that he based his policies on Christian values...hardly, but as you are well read in the life and times of Tommy Douglas so you already know that more than anything else his policies were driven by witnessing the violence of the labour movement and the General Strike in Winnipeg in 1919, and suffering through the Depression, which is when he became a minister...good career move at the time, don't you think?

Hank C Cheyenne

#29

Re: Lakeside Packers/ Tyson strike

Oct 15th, 2005

uhhaa...and why would you have anti scab laws? why can't the people who want to work....work....it just dosen't make any sence.....it's good to know that Alberta is the least unionized province...but its still a problem here....

**** just work and if you don't like the pay then f**ck off.. its how I and many others did in our younger days...

Quote:

I am so far left I have not seen my right side in years

...I feel for you...but what do you say about them smashing and terrorizing the workers who want to work...where are their rights?

Quote:

well we may as well legalize slavery

..what r u talking bout.... you are not bound to anything if you want to leave then leave...no one owns you and you don't have to do anything....

Reverend Blair

#30

Re: Lakeside Packers/ Tyson strike

Oct 16th, 2005

Quote: Originally Posted by Nascar Nero

Right Wing Liberals?????

Apparently you know noting about the Liberal Party in BC, James. They are an amalgam of old So-Creds and federal Conservatives. They took over the provincial Liberal Party by signing up at riding associations in mass numbers, then nominating and electing their own people.

Quote: Originally Posted by MMMike

Unions are all about inefficiency and protecting the weakest, dumbest, laziest workers.

Nonsense, managers are not within the scope of the union.

Quote:

And then there's the time a worker got drunk, and came to work with a shotgun to kill his boss. He was charged, and of course fired. The union field a grievance over it!!

If the worker asked for a grievance to be filed, or if there was evidence of wrongdoing on managements part, then the union is required to file a grievance under most union charters.

Quote:

Sorry no1, i'm with Hank & Nascar on this one... these people are completely free to find a job elsewhere. Where do you get slavery from that?

Again, just go and look at our history. When corporations are allowed to act as they want, the people and the country suffers.

Quote: Originally Posted by Hank

and why would you have anti scab laws? why can't the people who want to work....work....it just dosen't make any sence.

Union people do want to work. They also want to be paid a decent wage, be treated as people, not be exposed to unnecessary workplace dangers, and get reasonable benefits.

The claim that union workers do not want to work or are lazy is a myth perpetuated by those who would have us all working for a nickel an hour if they could.

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