University of Idaho affirms evolution

unclepercy

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Jun 4, 2005
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And discredits intelligent design? Basically that's what I am getting out of this article. Well, maybe the colleges are coming to their senses.

In a statement issued on October 4, 2005, the president of the University of Idaho, Timothy P. White, articulated the University's position on evolution. "As an academic scientific community and a research extensive land-grant institution," he wrote, "we affirm scientific principles that are testable and anchored in evidence." Hence only evolution, and not supposed "alternatives" to it, are taught in the university's science classes, he explained. White noted that such views might be appropriately discussed in "religion, sociology, philosophy, political science, or similar courses," and that the university respects the right of individuals to hold such views, but emphasized that they are inappropriate for the science classrooms.

http://www.ncseweb.org/resources/news/2005/ID/594_university_of_idaho_affirms_ev_10_5_2005.asp

Uncle
 

Nascar_James

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Jun 6, 2005
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The university is wrong to force it's views on evolution onto the student body.

For a public institution of higher learning to publically take a position and support evolution versus intelligent design is unacceptable. What would the reaction be if the tables were turned. If I were president or dean of the university and I announced that I was supporting intelligent design and other folks are entitled to their views on evolution, as long as they are not expressed in religion, sociology, philosophy, political science, or similar courses.

They had better not penalize students in any way who support intelligent design.

This is outrageous!!!
 

Canucklehead

Moderator
Apr 6, 2005
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Nothing wrong with that solution. Evolution is based in science and should be taught in science class. Creationism/ID is religious based and should be taught in religious studies.
Let the students meld the two as they see fit on their own terms outside the classroom.

Sorry but I just can't resist posting this editorial from Scientific American magazine:


Okay, We Give Up
We feel so ashamed
By The Editors
There's no easy way to admit this. For years, helpful letter writers told us to stick to science. They pointed out that science and politics don't mix. They said we should be more balanced in our presentation of such issues as creationism, missile defense and global warming. We resisted their advice and pretended not to be stung by the accusations that the magazine should be renamed Unscientific American, or Scientific Unamerican, or even Unscientific Unamerican. But spring is in the air, and all of nature is turning over a new leaf, so there's no better time to say: you were right, and we were wrong.

In retrospect, this magazine's coverage of so-called evolution has been hideously one-sided. For decades, we published articles in every issue that endorsed the ideas of Charles Darwin and his cronies. True, the theory of common descent through natural selection has been called the unifying concept for all of biology and one of the greatest scientific ideas of all time, but that was no excuse to be fanatics about it. Where were the answering articles presenting the powerful case for scientific creationism? Why were we so unwilling to suggest that dinosaurs lived 6,000 years ago or that a cataclysmic flood carved the Grand Canyon? Blame the scientists. They dazzled us with their fancy fossils, their radiocarbon dating and their tens of thousands of peer-reviewed journal articles. As editors, we had no business being persuaded by mountains of evidence.

Moreover, we shamefully mistreated the Intelligent Design (ID) theorists by lumping them in with creationists. Creationists believe that God designed all life, and that's a somewhat religious idea. But ID theorists think that at unspecified times some unnamed superpowerful entity designed life, or maybe just some species, or maybe just some of the stuff in cells. That's what makes ID a superior scientific theory: it doesn't get bogged down in details.

Good journalism values balance above all else. We owe it to our readers to present everybody's ideas equally and not to ignore or discredit theories simply because they lack scientifically credible arguments or facts. Nor should we succumb to the easy mistake of thinking that scientists understand their fields better than, say, U.S. senators or best-selling novelists do. Indeed, if politicians or special-interest groups say things that seem untrue or misleading, our duty as journalists is to quote them without comment or contradiction. To do otherwise would be elitist and therefore wrong. In that spirit, we will end the practice of expressing our own views in this space: an editorial page is no place for opinions.

Get ready for a new Scientific American. No more discussions of how science should inform policy. If the government commits blindly to building an anti-ICBM defense system that can't work as promised, that will waste tens of billions of taxpayers' dollars and imperil national security, you won't hear about it from us. If studies suggest that the administration's antipollution measures would actually increase the dangerous particulates that people breathe during the next two decades, that's not our concern. No more discussions of how policies affect science either-so what if the budget for the National Science Foundation is slashed? This magazine will be dedicated purely to science, fair and balanced science, and not just the science that scientists say is science. And it will start on April Fools' Day.
 

peapod

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Jun 26, 2004
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hehehhehe..you took the bait canucklehead, that was baited so bad, even I was not biting :p Good post tho.
Nascar has been around here long enough to know about the evloution thread, just more re-treading of the same old neocon tripe. :sleepy1: There is no way possible he cannot understand the simple defination of science :?
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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Nascar_James

I would be interested to know your views on evolution. The fossil record is pretty impressive. Did God put the fossils out there to fool us? Are evolution and creation mutually exclusive?
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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Nascar Nero said:
The university is wrong to force it's views on evolution onto the student body.

They aren't forcing thier views on anybody. The article quite clearly states the type of non-scientific classes where non-scientific matters can be discussed.



For a public institution of higher learning to publically take a position and support evolution versus intelligent design is unacceptable.

Actually, that has been a traditional role of institutions of higher learning since their inception.

What would the reaction be if the tables were turned.

You'd lose your science students. Those that remained wouldn't be able to get jobs because they would have learned religion in science class.

If I were president or dean of the university and I announced that I was supporting intelligent design and other folks are entitled to their views on evolution, as long as they are not expressed in religion, sociology, philosophy, political science, or similar courses.

Actually, evolutionary theory has had an effect on all of those fields. The church does not teach evolution though. If you want to teach your religion in science class, then I have every right to walk into your church next Sunday and teach evolution.

They had better not penalize students in any way who support intelligent design.

If they are supporting intelligent design in science class, then they deserve to fail, since it does not meet scientific standards. It would be like insisting on building an internal combustion engine out of plywood in motor mech. It just doesn't make sense.

By the way James, I thought you said you were Catholic? The Catholic church accepted evolution decades ago. Are you going against the policies of your church? I hope not because you previously stated that anybody who doesn't follow the policies of the church should be kicked out.
 

missile

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Dec 1, 2004
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Just looking at the people you meet in everyday life,it is easy to believe we have descended from the ape..so many of them haven't evolved that far yet :twisted:
 

#juan

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Evolution or natural selection

provide such an elegant explanation of the developement of both plants and animals that it can't be ignored. Some fundimentalist blockheads like Gerry Falwal try to teach that the bible is right in all things and that evolutionary theory is the work of Satan. The tiny minority of literalist fundamentalists, however, are the only ones to embrace this view. No mainstream religious organization asserts that the Bible must be literally true, or that evolutionary theory is incompatible with the Christian faith.
 

ol' dawg

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Jun 25, 2005
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I don't buy into the creation story in Genisis, I'm iffy about evolution, and so-so about ID ... but I do believe in reincarnation. Afterall, this is the second time this theme has been incarnated in my short time on CC.

IMO, the Genisis creation story requires faith, one needs to belief that Genisis is historical, literal and factual. It was a myth that was an attempt to explain the unknowable; especially to those who had no scientific knowledge, as was the case for most of mankind until the last few decades.

Evolution has missing links, not just in the evolution from ape to man, but from non-flowering plants to flowering plants - according to Forbidden History, a book a friend suggested.

ID explains 'evolution' from a perspective that a knowledge and power that is not the judeo-christian god is responsible for life on earth. Both mainstream science and creationists criticize ID as having few facts to substantiate their claims.

My approach is to keep asking why, and why not ? I don't accept anything as the final answer. As someone once said, " Live in the question, not in the answer."
 

no1important

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Jan 9, 2003
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RE: University of Idaho a

The problem is Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 contradict one another.

Intelligant design is some warped joke, something pulled out of someones ass, just to try and discredit evolution since the old way was not doing it, so they came up with something new and when ID don't work they (religious right) will come up with something else.
 

Reverend Blair

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Apr 3, 2004
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RE: University of Idaho a

Genesis 1 and 2 contradict each other because they are, if not out and out plagiarism, highly derivative stories from other cultures.
 

#juan

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ol' dawg wrote:

Evolution has missing links, not just in the evolution from ape to man, but from non-flowering plants to flowering plants - according to Forbidden History, a book a friend suggested.

Not too long ago it was announced that science had unraveled the entire human genome, or the full DNA sequence of man. What they have also found is that in comparing human DNA to that of the Chimpanzee, there are small differences to be sure, but there are many times more similarities than differences.
 

unclepercy

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Re: RE: University of Idaho affirms evolution

Ten Packs said:
unclepercy - just so you know, for the "url" tags to work, you cannot have ANY spaces inside the two bracketed symbols...

Thanks for the tip. I knew that, but I couldn't get the space to go away - when I edited it with delete - it chopped off the "h" of the http. I tried.

Uncle
 

#juan

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Aug 30, 2005
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unclepercy

Regarding the urls: If you just use your cursor to highlight the url, and then click on the above url sign it will automatically give you the correct spacing. If you already know this just ignore. :wink:
 

Nascar_James

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#juan said:
Nascar_James

I would be interested to know your views on evolution. The fossil record is pretty impressive. Did God put the fossils out there to fool us? Are evolution and creation mutually exclusive?

Juan, the theory of evolution does not clearly explain where life originally came from. Could you answer that question? Every species on earth was initially put here by a Divine Being. Those that were not able to adapt to change, have become extinct. We have had some form of micro-evolution (changes in the form of a species over time based on natural selection), however a given species over time does not become a completely new species.

Therefore to answer your question, the fossils we have are the remains of the initial species created by God.
 

Reverend Blair

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RE: University of Idaho a

Unless you prove, scientifically, that there is a god or gods that put the species here to begin with, then your claim is unscientific, just mumbo jumbo about an invisible man in the sky.

Scientists have created amino acids from nothing but chemicals and electricity in the lab. Amino acids are the building blocks of DNA, so it has been shown that the basic building blocks of life could have started with nothing more than a chemical soup. No supreme being necessary.

You still haven't answered my question about the Catholic church by the way, James. Do you disagree with their policy on evolution? If so, shouldn't you leave the church?
 

Nascar_James

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Reverend Blair said:
By the way James, I thought you said you were Catholic? The Catholic church accepted evolution decades ago. Are you going against the policies of your church? I hope not because you previously stated that anybody who doesn't follow the policies of the church should be kicked out.

Rev, up till recently I have been quiet on the evolution discussions and for good reason, the Catholic Church has previously been neutral on this issue. However, the Catholic Church now appears to be moving in the right direction ...changes appear on the horizon ...

http://www.heraldtribune.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050709/ZNYT02/507090678

Catholic Church Rethinking Neutral Position on Evolution
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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Nascar_James said:
.. the theory of evolution does not clearly explain where life originally came from.

Aw jeez, here it goes again. That's just another of those red herrings the creationists like to trot out as a criticism of evolutionary theory. Of course it doesn't explain origins, that's not what it's about. It's about what happens to living things once they exist. It says nothing about how life originated, never did, and never will. That's a separate issue, not part of evolutionary theory.

You guys are all the same in this context. You misuse or misinterpret some legitimate science. You get a cogent rebuttal. Then, instead of dealing forthrightly with that, you cite the rebuttal as evidence that the science is weak and uncertain and there's a controversy. Nice trick, works every time, and it's absolutely content-free, it'll work on anything. It's also logically wrong. But that's never stopped any devoted creationist.

Intelligent design explains exactly nothing, it's a total fraud, and the U of Idaho is entirely correct. The church is moving in exactly the wrong direction, away from a reasoned, evidence-based understanding of the world around us, back to mediaeval mysticism and nonsense.

Anybody who wants to know more can find it in the Evolution Debate thread. I don't propose to go through it all again here. But I can summarize it this way: if the Catholic faith is incompatible with the science of evolution, as those links clearly indicate an influential Cardinal has written, the faith is wrong. Science is not a matter of belief. When science and religion come into conflict over empirical claims about the nature of reality, religion has to yield. It's wrong.