Terry Schiavo

[peapod]

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2005/06/15/121440.php

The Terri Schiavo autopsy report has been released. The medical examiner says he found "irreversible brain injury" making it impossible for the woman to have recovered as her parents claimed would have been possible. Her brain was half the normal size and there was no indication of any trauma occurring before the accident that led to her persistent vegetative state (PVS).

Her husband and parents remained at odds for years over whether to remove a feeding tube keeping Ms Schiavo alive. Her parents claimed she could recover, her husband insisted she'd asked that heroic measures not be taken to keep her alive.

Ms Schiavo was taken off artificial life support under a court order earlier this year. She had been on a feeding tube -- a machine that pumped a nutrient paste directly into her digestive tract -- since lapsing into PVS more than a decade ago.

Autopsy Report Showed No Hope

Pinellas-Pasco Medical Examiner Jon Thogmartin says his autopsy showed there was no hope for recovery:


``The brain weighed 615 grams, roughly half of the expected weight of a human brain. ... This damage was irreversible, and no amount of therapy or treatment would have regenerated the massive loss of neurons.''


Debate over removing the feeding tube led to court challenges resulting in at least five US Supreme Court decisions in the case. Congress and the Florida legislature both passed bills aimed at keeping the feeding tube in place.

Political Haymaking & Backlashes

Schiavo's parents apparently cashed in, turning over a list of donors' names and addresses to a company that does mass mailing appeals for contributions to conservative candidates and causes.

Sen Rick Santorum (R-PA), a vocal opponent of removing the feeding tube, used the case to run up campaign contributions for his re-election bid.

But Republicans were caught circulating a memo explaining how to cash in on the case. That led to the memo author being fired -- and immediately coming back to Washington as a lobbyist.

Republicans in Congress jumped on the opportunity to use repeated rulings to remove the feeding tube as ammunition in pushing for President Bush's judicial nominees. Sen John Cornyn (R-TX) linked recent violence against judges to public opinion against "activist judges," alluding to the Schiavo case. And House Majority Leader Tom DeLay (R-TX) snapped, "The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior."

Both men later apologized for their statements. But branded Rep DeLay enough to get him mentioned in an episode of NBC's "Law & Order" where police were looking for a suspect in a judge's murder -- and joked about a suspect wearing a "Tom DeLay t-shirt."

The GOP's handling of the case -- including a late night flight from Texas to DC by President Bush to sign a bill aimed at keeping the feeding tube in place -- is seen as the beginning of a months-long slide in the President's approval rating.

[Crossposted at Watching Washington]

 

[Ocean Breeze]

http://news.findlaw.com/hdocs/docs/schiavo/61305autopsyrpt.pdf

peapod...!! you beat me too this :wink:

however the above link offers the report in full.....in pdf format.

So the husband was right . about her status. As were her medical advisors.

the religious fanatics who don't go on facts ..... are something else entirely. :x Gosh, the sensationalism this got. on the media.

Very poor judgement on her parents part. But they did work the public into a frenzy .........sheesh. (only in "America".)

And bush showed even more of his lousy/impaired judgement in getting involved in this. He just added to the frenzy.

Thank goodness this is over ......

 

[Vanni Fucci]

Was that Dr. Thogmartin, or Thockmorton pea?

I'm glad that this issue has been resolved to everyone's satisfaction...

...well maybe not the parents who alleged that Michael abused his wife...or the people that insisted that she horribly starved to death...or the people that claimed that she was not in a persistent vegatative state, and that there was hope for her recovery...or for the Right to Lifers that maintained that she displayed evidence of cognition whenever she saw her parents, because it was proven beyond doubt that Terry Schiavo, due to the damage to her occipital lobe, was completely blind...

 

[I think not]

I hope those who pass judgement on her parents are never in the same position they were.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

I hope those who pass judgement on her parents are never in the same position they were.

the thing is ITN......that a surprising (or maybe not so) many have been in similar situations .....but they just handled it differently without making a media/legal circus out of it.

It is the circus that is so offensive . Not the situation.....which is so heartbreaking for all those involved. If anyone here has worked in the medical field , they would have a better understanding as to the importance of maintaining dignity in such situations. A circus does not maintain dignity. These situations are tragic from every aspect. They are heartbreaking.--with an angst that does not end when the patient dies. The bereavement process takes a lot of time.

 

[I think not]

A plea for help when you see your child is about to be put off life support is not defined as a circus in my book. Thousands of people supported their parents and thousands Terri, in the end, they all felt sorrow.

It's called a last resort for desperate parents.

I'll repeat what I said, I hope those who are quick to judge never have to face what they have.

 

[no1important]

The whole thing was very sad. Especially that it went out of control by the various politicians, Florida government, religious organizations and the press going to town on this. Too much interferance. Too many politicians trying to capitalize on her.

The family had no privacy as they were in a constant media spotlight and that too made it harder.

Terry was a daughter and no parent I know wants their child to die (even if there is no hope), even though she was pretty well brain dead, They were just hoping for a miracle and saw every "involuntary reflex" as a sign or hope that she would improve. Even though it was not going to happen.

I can see the reason they went to courts to try to prevent her from dying. It was very dificult for them. Its too bad they and Terri's husband could not get along better, either.

I would like to believe her husband was telling the truth that she did not or would not want to go on in that state.

It is too bad she never made her wishes more clearer to her parents. BUt since she was married it was her husbands call. Whether he made the right call, is irrelevent now.

It really was a sad and dificult situation for all involved. Thats all I can really say.

I do support legalized euthanasia, but thats for another thread I think.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

A plea for help when you see your child is about to be put off life support is not defined as a circus in my book.

first.....it would seem you are splitting hairs here.

second: Not sure this situation was a "plea for help " as such......unless one is defining that within a different framework.

The case had been going on for some time. It did not suddenly erupt over night......although with the media involved....and the drama that unfolded , one would have thought so.

reality is ,NO ONE wishes that on anyone. The other reality is : That like it or not......life can deal some savage blows .....and how one copes with them is what matters.

I have seen many situations like this .....(in the medical field and none of them got the media attention that this case did ) And yes, lawyers were involved, and family disputes emerged and the whole issue could have been blown out of proportion. Heck families have split up on such sensitive matters. The role of patient advocate became more important than ever and most of these cases were resolved before the media got wind of them. But then the media here is more about news and facts and does not sensationalize or dramatize such situations. The whole tone is different.

Just one of the differences in how the US media handles things and how other news outlets handle them.

the thing one does NOT want to do is inflame a public fervor in a situation like this. It is too sensitive and personal. (and explosive as we have seen)

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Re: RE: Terry Schiavo

The whole thing was very sad. Especially that it went out of control by the various politicians, Florida government, religious organizations and the press going to town on this. Too much interferance. Too many politicians trying to capitalize on her.

The family had no privacy as they were in a constant media spotlight and that too made it harder.

Terry was a daughter and no parent I know wants their child to die (even if there is no hope), even though she was pretty well brain dead, They were just hoping for a miracle and saw every "involuntary reflex" as a sign or hope that she would improve. Even though it was not going to happen.

I can see the reason they went to courts to try to prevent her from dying. It was very dificult for them. Its too bad they and Terri's husband could not get along better, either.

I would like to believe her husband was telling the truth that she did not or would not want to go on in that state.

It is too bad she never made her wishes more clearer to her parents. BUt since she was married it was her husbands call. Whether he made the right call, is irrelevent now.

It really was a sad and dificult situation for all involved. Thats all I can really say.

I do support legalized euthanasia, but thats for another thread I think.

Excellent post. ( in agreement with your ideas )

 

[peapod]

Personally I found the whole thing disquisting! a cheap hollywood movie. The only person with any character was the husband. He should get a medal for what he had to endure. Vultures descending on that poor women. It was nothing but a circus act with a political agenda. How stupid do you think people are?? Yes selling the names of the people who donated was a loving touch. Most disquisting of all of was that little weasel from texas, trying to cash in on it. And from what I read, a poll taken afterwards...most americans were disquisted by that circus themselves.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

http://thinkprogress.org/index.php?p=1100


some interesting and consistent (reasonable & sensible) thoughts on the issue.

Will anyone render an apology to the Husband??? of course not. That would take honesty and character.

But gosh ,did those right wing religious nuts ever have a hay day bashing him.

( he surived and is probably a stronger person for it )

a certain poetic justice in all this.

 

[peapod]

They will USE anything to push their agenda, no matter who's life it might destroy or who gets hurt. Its sickening, the lengths these people go to.

 

[I think not]

A plea for help when you see your child is about to be put off life support is not defined as a circus in my book.

first.....it would seem you are splitting hairs here.

second: Not sure this situation was a "plea for help " as such......unless one is defining that within a different framework.

The case had been going on for some time. It did not suddenly erupt over night......although with the media involved....and the drama that unfolded , one would have thought so.

reality is ,NO ONE wishes that on anyone. The other reality is : That like it or not......life can deal some savage blows .....and how one copes with them is what matters.

I have seen many situations like this .....(in the medical field and none of them got the media attention that this case did ) And yes, lawyers were involved, and family disputes emerged and the whole issue could have been blown out of proportion. Heck families have split up on such sensitive matters. The role of patient advocate became more important than ever and most of these cases were resolved before the media got wind of them. But then the media here is more about news and facts and does not sensationalize or dramatize such situations. The whole tone is different.

Just one of the differences in how the US media handles things and how other news outlets handle them.

the thing one does NOT want to do is inflame a public fervor in a situation like this. It is too sensitive and personal. (and explosive as we have seen)

Sorry Ocean, you're just addressing this way too cold. Unless you have been in their shoes (and I hope you haven't), you simply cannot know how you would react.

You think I would give a rats ass what people were going to say if I tried to save my daughters life? That may be considered PC in BC, but I could give a flying f*ck what others have to say about how I try to save my child.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

A plea for help when you see your child is about to be put off life support is not defined as a circus in my book.

first.....it would seem you are splitting hairs here.

second: Not sure this situation was a "plea for help " as such......unless one is defining that within a different framework.

The case had been going on for some time. It did not suddenly erupt over night......although with the media involved....and the drama that unfolded , one would have thought so.

reality is ,NO ONE wishes that on anyone. The other reality is : That like it or not......life can deal some savage blows .....and how one copes with them is what matters.

I have seen many situations like this .....(in the medical field and none of them got the media attention that this case did ) And yes, lawyers were involved, and family disputes emerged and the whole issue could have been blown out of proportion. Heck families have split up on such sensitive matters. The role of patient advocate became more important than ever and most of these cases were resolved before the media got wind of them. But then the media here is more about news and facts and does not sensationalize or dramatize such situations. The whole tone is different.

Just one of the differences in how the US media handles things and how other news outlets handle them.

the thing one does NOT want to do is inflame a public fervor in a situation like this. It is too sensitive and personal. (and explosive as we have seen)

Sorry Ocean, you're just addressing this way too cold. Unless you have been in their shoes (and I hope you haven't), you simply cannot know how you would react.

You think I would give a rats ass what people were going to say if I tried to save my daughters life? That may be considered PC in BC, but I could give a flying f*ck what others have to say about how I try to save my child.

Oh, but I have been in a similar situation....personally, only it was a parent....... so please save your lectures and condescending ,presumptuous manner for someone else. The point is that anyone involved in such delicate ,sensitive situations will deal with them the way they know how and hopefully keep the patient in focus. The living must take responsbility for their own actions, and feelings. and behave in as mature ,responsible manner as possible without making a f***king circus out of it. Dramatizing it, having a bunch of religious fanatics get involved is NOT going to change the medical FACTS. Headline grabbers re: situations like this are nothing more than ambulence chasers. Harsh ??? you bet. But reality is not always pleasant either .

In the final analysis , this was really between Terri , her husband, her family, and a patient advocate. Too bad some of this party went so far as to blow it right out of proportion. --and refused to acknowledge what the medical team was telling them. Denial does that to people. They go crazy. , involve many unwanted parties into the mess and gather more sympathy for their own cause.

then come the lawyers with their own agenda. When that reaches a stalemate.......enter the politicians and one has a scenario that plays for weeks on live tv. Meanwhile healthy, young ,robust people are being KILLED because some asshole in the whitehouse decided he did not have enough power over a distant nation that happened to be gifted with a wealth of natural resources.

Given these extremes.........does any part of this society make rational sense. ???

Where are the religious fanatics when it comes to watching their own troops killed in a war of CHOICE??? Where are the "pro-lifers" when their leader lies to invade and kill??? Where are the pro-lifers when it comes to the thousands of Iraqis and Afgans killed ,maimed .......and also tortured??? Gee, no candle light vigil for any of them , is there??? But take ONE brain damaged patient who has been in a vegetative state for years.......and they all crawl out of the woodwork .......like insects, ready to prey.

go figure

 

[jimmoyer]

Oh c'mon Ocean Breeze, you're getting too brittle.

You're pushing too hard to make a point about American media. Big deal. Try giving credit to someone like ITN who is coming at you on a very sincere level.

You gotta do it.

Get rid of the point of view.

Start fresh.

And oh baby are you fresh ?

 

[I think not]

Oh, but I have been in a similar situation....personally, only it was a parent....... so please save your lectures and condescending ,presumptuous manner for someone else. The point is that anyone involved in such delicate ,sensitive situations will deal with them the way they know how and hopefully keep the patient in focus. The living must take responsbility for their own actions, and feelings. and behave in as mature ,responsible manner as possible without making a f***king circus out of it. Dramatizing it, having a bunch of religious fanatics get involved is NOT going to change the medical FACTS. Headline grabbers re: situations like this are nothing more than ambulence chasers. Harsh ??? you bet. But reality is not always pleasant either .

In the final analysis , this was really between Terri , her husband, her family, and a patient advocate. Too bad some of this party went so far as to blow it right out of proportion. --and refused to acknowledge what the medical team was telling them. Denial does that to people. They go crazy. , involve many unwanted parties into the mess and gather more sympathy for their own cause.

then come the lawyers with their own agenda. When that reaches a stalemate.......enter the politicians and one has a scenario that plays for weeks on live tv. Meanwhile healthy, young ,robust people are being KILLED because some asshole in the whitehouse decided he did not have enough power over a distant nation that happened to be gifted with a wealth of natural resources.

Given these extremes.........does any part of this society make rational sense. ???

Well if you have been in a similar situation and reacted differently, that's you. Why do you go all over the parents? Isn't this the whole topic of conversation? How they dragged the media into it?

They were desperate, can't you grasp the concept of desperation?

 

[jimmoyer]

Oh c'mon Ocean Breeze, you're too brittle.

You're trying so hard to prove a point about the American media that you are missing the point about ITN coming at you on a very sincere, fundamental level.

He is in no way being condescending to you.

Get rid of your crusade, and hear each of us individually.

Start fresh.

And I know you Ocean Breeze, you can be very fresh, oh baby oh baby oh baby, and damnit, give us a little credit beyond the cartoons you think we are, because you're more than the sum of your posts here.

Hell for one thing, you'r damn motivated.

 

[Ocean Breeze]

Try giving credit to someone like ITN who is coming at you on a very sincere level.

:lol: :lol:


ITN is cool. (and he /she knows that I am just as sincere in my posts. )

we can agree to disagree and things are copesthetic.

furthermore isn't this what a dynamic discussion is all about.??

cheers.

 

[I think not]

Try giving credit to someone like ITN who is coming at you on a very sincere level.

:lol: :lol:


ITN is cool. (and he /she knows that I am just as sincere in my posts. )

we can agree to disagree and things are copesthetic.

furthermore isn't this what a dynamic discussion is all about.??

cheers.

SHE?!?!?! SHE?!?!?! 8O Last time I checked I had a huge pair of.......that

Goodnight Ocean, I wish I had an Ocean Breeze right about now, not close enough I'm afraid.

 

[Vanni Fucci]

SHE?!?!?! SHE?!?!?! 8O Last time I checked I had a huge pair of.......that

Well maybe Ocean was mistaken in thinking that was your grand American welcome mat... :lol: