Senate Member
Posts: 5,158 
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
January 6th, 2006, 11:38 AM
I am not particularly impressed with the idea of "banning" breeds.
But, the question is, why does anyone choose to own a breed bred for its aggressive characteristics?
Usually it is because they are arseholes, taking us back to the top of the post. (present company excluded of course)
Quoting
I would agree the fault for dog attacks lies mostly with the owner.
The owners need to take sole responsibility. It is almost always their fault. I say this as someone who has owned "pitbulls" (that's not even a real breed name since it covers several breeds if you ask most people). I now have a small terrier (about 15lbs) and he is the first dog I've had who has bitten a human.
I am not particularly impressed with the idea of "banning" breeds.
But, the question is, why does anyone choose to own a breed bred for its aggressive characteristics?
Usually it is because they are arseholes, taking us back to the top of the post. (present company excluded of course)
Senate Member
Posts: 5,158
Location: Saint John, N.B.
Location: Saint John, N.B.
January 6th, 2006, 11:52 AM
Also, anyone frightened by a pit bull would also be frightened of any large dog, such as a german shepard, or even a golden retreiver, the best natured canines on earth.
And, any dog will defend hearth and home.
My son was attacked by a rottweiller when he was about 7. Luckily he was wearing a heavy parka, and the dog grabbed him by the shoulder, and the owner beat the dog off him before any real damage was done.
I also saw my sister-in-laws golden retreiver, who was 8 years old and had never so much as bared his teeth, challenge a guy who walked into their kitchen without invitation, and with foul intent. He retreated pretty quick.
Dogs are wonderful animals, but I have absolutely NO tolerance for aggressive dogs.
Quoting
But I control a weapon. I don't really control a separate entity like a dog.
"But, the question is, why does anyone choose to own a breed bred for its aggressive characteristics?"
Cause you don't want people barging into your house etc.
There sorta like a gun, except guns don't kill people, but pitbulls do!
Cause you don't want people barging into your house etc.
There sorta like a gun, except guns don't kill people, but pitbulls do!
Also, anyone frightened by a pit bull would also be frightened of any large dog, such as a german shepard, or even a golden retreiver, the best natured canines on earth.
And, any dog will defend hearth and home.
My son was attacked by a rottweiller when he was about 7. Luckily he was wearing a heavy parka, and the dog grabbed him by the shoulder, and the owner beat the dog off him before any real damage was done.
I also saw my sister-in-laws golden retreiver, who was 8 years old and had never so much as bared his teeth, challenge a guy who walked into their kitchen without invitation, and with foul intent. He retreated pretty quick.
Dogs are wonderful animals, but I have absolutely NO tolerance for aggressive dogs.
House Member
Posts: 2,761
Location: California
Location: California
January 6th, 2006, 12:48 PM
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I would have a pitbull if I owned a home rather than rented (it's waaaaaaayyyyy too hard to rent with one). Why? Because well raised pits are loving, friendly, clean, high energy, intelligent, playful, loyal and extremely trainable dogs. They score higher on temperament testing than the vast majority of "docile" breeds. They are dogs that will do absolutely anything for their owners. Bad dog owners took advantage of this by making them risk their lives in a pit fight. They are generally great with children (unlike my little terrier!!!). They aren't very possessive of belongings, but are very protective of people. We were actually robbed when we had our 100+lb pitbull. Came home to find all our electronics gone and her laying on the couch wagging her tail as if to say "Hey, this nice visitor came while you guys were gone and he rubbed me behind the ears! It was great!". Contrast that with her behavior the one time my boyfriend raised his voice to me !
She got between us, let out one bark and stared him down as he backed away and sat down in a chair.
If you want a short haired, big, hardy dog who will play anytime, anywhere and love you more than anything in the world, then pits are the dogs to get. I love my little terrier, but he has the worst temperament of any dog I've ever owned. He does not trust strangers and will bite anyone who doesn't leave him alone when he wants to be left alone (other than me of course).
Quoting
I am not particularly impressed with the idea of "banning" breeds.
But, the question is, why does anyone choose to own a breed bred for its aggressive characteristics?
Usually it is because they are arseholes, taking us back to the top of the post. (present company excluded of course)
Well, that's certainly not the case with me Quoting
I would agree the fault for dog attacks lies mostly with the owner.
The owners need to take sole responsibility. It is almost always their fault. I say this as someone who has owned "pitbulls" (that's not even a real breed name since it covers several breeds if you ask most people). I now have a small terrier (about 15lbs) and he is the first dog I've had who has bitten a human.
I am not particularly impressed with the idea of "banning" breeds.
But, the question is, why does anyone choose to own a breed bred for its aggressive characteristics?
Usually it is because they are arseholes, taking us back to the top of the post. (present company excluded of course)
. I would have a pitbull if I owned a home rather than rented (it's waaaaaaayyyyy too hard to rent with one). Why? Because well raised pits are loving, friendly, clean, high energy, intelligent, playful, loyal and extremely trainable dogs. They score higher on temperament testing than the vast majority of "docile" breeds. They are dogs that will do absolutely anything for their owners. Bad dog owners took advantage of this by making them risk their lives in a pit fight. They are generally great with children (unlike my little terrier!!!). They aren't very possessive of belongings, but are very protective of people. We were actually robbed when we had our 100+lb pitbull. Came home to find all our electronics gone and her laying on the couch wagging her tail as if to say "Hey, this nice visitor came while you guys were gone and he rubbed me behind the ears! It was great!". Contrast that with her behavior the one time my boyfriend raised his voice to me !
She got between us, let out one bark and stared him down as he backed away and sat down in a chair.If you want a short haired, big, hardy dog who will play anytime, anywhere and love you more than anything in the world, then pits are the dogs to get. I love my little terrier, but he has the worst temperament of any dog I've ever owned. He does not trust strangers and will bite anyone who doesn't leave him alone when he wants to be left alone (other than me of course).
Running out of ranks
Posts: 8,366
January 6th, 2006, 12:51 PM
They have their purpose, but I wouldn't get one....but then again I don't have a grow operation in my basement.
I don't like them myself, but I like the ban on them less. Pits are ugly, ugly, thick skulled pieces of meat that need an owner who knows what they are doing.
They have their purpose, but I wouldn't get one....but then again I don't have a grow operation in my basement.
I don't like them myself, but I like the ban on them less. Pits are ugly, ugly, thick skulled pieces of meat that need an owner who knows what they are doing.
House Member
Posts: 2,761
Location: California
Location: California
January 6th, 2006, 01:15 PM
Quoting
I don't have a grow op either. Most bully owners don't. Personally, I think bullies are way cuter than labs or golden retrievers or poodles or most other dogs. I love a good bully smile
They have their purpose, but I wouldn't get one....but then again I don't have a grow operation in my basement.
I don't like them myself, but I like the ban on them less. Pits are ugly, ugly, thick skulled pieces of meat that need an owner who knows what they are doing.
I don't like them myself, but I like the ban on them less. Pits are ugly, ugly, thick skulled pieces of meat that need an owner who knows what they are doing.
the clan of the claw
Posts: 1,976
January 6th, 2006, 03:13 PM
"bully". this is the first time i have heard that term for pit-bulls. does it suit the breed well?
ban this, ban that. bans don't really solve problems. people that want dogs that feed their ego for their aggressiveness or strength will just move to the next breed, and create the same problems there.
i don't support bans, so i strangely enough end up standing in support of those responsible dog owners, which i seem to find to be a small minority overall. The answer lies in better ownership requirements.
Either that or ban ALL DOGS PERIOD! just joking, but i would not miss the little biters if it happened. I have been bit or snapped at or chased one too many times when trail running by off-leash dogs, usually completely unchecked by those "dog walking" companies.
"bully". this is the first time i have heard that term for pit-bulls. does it suit the breed well?
ban this, ban that. bans don't really solve problems. people that want dogs that feed their ego for their aggressiveness or strength will just move to the next breed, and create the same problems there.
i don't support bans, so i strangely enough end up standing in support of those responsible dog owners, which i seem to find to be a small minority overall. The answer lies in better ownership requirements.
Either that or ban ALL DOGS PERIOD! just joking, but i would not miss the little biters if it happened. I have been bit or snapped at or chased one too many times when trail running by off-leash dogs, usually completely unchecked by those "dog walking" companies.
House Member
Posts: 2,761
Location: California
Location: California
January 10th, 2006, 04:07 AM
Again, my little terrier is the only dog I've ever owned that bites.
Quoting
Bully is a term of affection used because "pit bull" isn't a breed, but most of the breeds the general public will call "pit bull" have the bull part in their name (Staffordshire bull terrier, bull terrier, bull dog, american bull dog... the exception is the American Stafforshire terrier). A lot of these dogs are absolute clowns like the bull terrier in particular, and "bully" is not meant as a negative comment on their personalities. Many of those lines haven't been used in pit fighting for over 80 years. That's a long time in selective dog breeding.
"bully". this is the first time i have heard that term for pit-bulls. does it suit the breed well?
Again, my little terrier is the only dog I've ever owned that bites.
Ponderous Intellect
Posts: 3,859
Location: Victoria, BC
Location: Victoria, BC
January 10th, 2006, 06:36 AM
Caracal, as usual, I agree with you. Bans don't work. Anything banned goes underground, animals underground are invariably put in abusive situations (example being wild caught parrots ... back in the day, as many died as survived). A ban just creates problems, and this time we're not talking about something inanimate. These are living creatures we are condemning to this kind of misuse. A bottle of hootch during the prohibition or a handgun doesn't suffer at least.
Tracy ... would love to know about your "15 pound terrier". Sounds like my girl. She's a Jack Russell, and they are VERY similar in temperment to pitbulls. Difference being, they're a hell of a lot smaller, look so cute and harmless and are more likely to get away with misbehaving than their larger cousins, pitbulls.
Mine is the first dog I've ever owned who actually got away with biting me. Normally that's just plain unacceptable ... but I realized it was MY handling of her that caused the problem, not the dog's fault. If you're not alpha 100% of the time with them, there can be big trouble. We adjusted by simply not allowing alpha dog behaviour in her, and the problem was solved. She's still allowed to grumble under her breath, but no aggression is tolerated.
On the other hand, my sister had a pitbull (Salvador Doggy) who was the most gentle, loving, big goofy bundle of joy I've ever encountered. He was raised from puppyhood to NEVER put a tooth to skin ... when you played with him the first thing he did was run for his big rope so he could chew it instead of ever biting, even in play. They used to rough house with 75 pounds of pure muscle and never once did he make a mistake. And no, Jay ... no grow op. They were both clean and sober.
People are so knee-jerk about the breed! My sister's neighbours were terrified of Sal ... my neighbours always comment about how "cute" my terrier is. In fact, they could rely on Sal far more than they could on my girl to never bite.
Anecdotal rather than statistical, but I've heard lots of stories like mine.
All dogs can bite, and will do so given the right circumstance. All dog owners are responsible for their dogs. I love my girl beyond words, but if she ever bit anyone without reason, it would be her last bite. As responsible owners, it's up to us to protect people from our dogs ... and up to us to protect our dogs from the stupid people who have no idea how to approach a dog. Lots of em out there. Any stranger that picked up my girl would be risking a bite. So I make sure it doesn't happen.
I've chosen a breed I need to be vigilant with ... just like a pitbull. Perhaps more so, since people don't understand terriers at all. Terriers think they ARE pitbulls and behave like they weigh 75 pounds. They are fearless and aggressive. In general.
Granted a JR isn't likely to kill someone where a pitbull does have the ability to do so, but they are not the only dog with that capability. The whole thing is just one more example of people trying to deal with a symptom not the problem. The problem is dog owners, not dog breeds.
And really, looking at the statistics, we'd be much better off worrying about being hit by a drunk driver than we would be worrying about being attacked by a pitbull. We live in a society where we focus all our free floating fears on one subject then go bat**** over it. Human nature, but I don't think pitbulls should be picking up the tab on our therapy.
Quoting
Just in case any of you ban supporters missed Juan's post ... http://tinyurl.com/83u98
From the number of similar dog breeds out there that are vary similar to the Pit Bull, I would say the ban will be dificult to enforce.
From the number of similar dog breeds out there that are vary similar to the Pit Bull, I would say the ban will be dificult to enforce.
Caracal, as usual, I agree with you. Bans don't work. Anything banned goes underground, animals underground are invariably put in abusive situations (example being wild caught parrots ... back in the day, as many died as survived). A ban just creates problems, and this time we're not talking about something inanimate. These are living creatures we are condemning to this kind of misuse. A bottle of hootch during the prohibition or a handgun doesn't suffer at least.
Tracy ... would love to know about your "15 pound terrier".
Sounds like my girl. She's a Jack Russell, and they are VERY similar in temperment to pitbulls. Difference being, they're a hell of a lot smaller, look so cute and harmless and are more likely to get away with misbehaving than their larger cousins, pitbulls.Mine is the first dog I've ever owned who actually got away with biting me. Normally that's just plain unacceptable ... but I realized it was MY handling of her that caused the problem, not the dog's fault. If you're not alpha 100% of the time with them, there can be big trouble. We adjusted by simply not allowing alpha dog behaviour in her, and the problem was solved. She's still allowed to grumble under her breath, but no aggression is tolerated.
On the other hand, my sister had a pitbull (Salvador Doggy) who was the most gentle, loving, big goofy bundle of joy I've ever encountered. He was raised from puppyhood to NEVER put a tooth to skin ... when you played with him the first thing he did was run for his big rope so he could chew it instead of ever biting, even in play. They used to rough house with 75 pounds of pure muscle and never once did he make a mistake. And no, Jay ... no grow op. They were both clean and sober.
People are so knee-jerk about the breed! My sister's neighbours were terrified of Sal ... my neighbours always comment about how "cute" my terrier is. In fact, they could rely on Sal far more than they could on my girl to never bite.
Anecdotal rather than statistical, but I've heard lots of stories like mine.
All dogs can bite, and will do so given the right circumstance. All dog owners are responsible for their dogs. I love my girl beyond words, but if she ever bit anyone without reason, it would be her last bite. As responsible owners, it's up to us to protect people from our dogs ... and up to us to protect our dogs from the stupid people who have no idea how to approach a dog. Lots of em out there. Any stranger that picked up my girl would be risking a bite. So I make sure it doesn't happen.
I've chosen a breed I need to be vigilant with ... just like a pitbull. Perhaps more so, since people don't understand terriers at all. Terriers think they ARE pitbulls and behave like they weigh 75 pounds. They are fearless and aggressive. In general.
Granted a JR isn't likely to kill someone where a pitbull does have the ability to do so, but they are not the only dog with that capability. The whole thing is just one more example of people trying to deal with a symptom not the problem. The problem is dog owners, not dog breeds.
And really, looking at the statistics, we'd be much better off worrying about being hit by a drunk driver than we would be worrying about being attacked by a pitbull. We live in a society where we focus all our free floating fears on one subject then go bat**** over it. Human nature, but I don't think pitbulls should be picking up the tab on our therapy.
House Member
Posts: 2,761
Location: California
Location: California
January 10th, 2006, 11:08 AM
My little dog is a fear biter. I never had any problems with him biting until a run in with a crazy lady that just traumatized him. He never liked strangers all that much, but now he just doesn't want them to touch him. Because he's little and so unique looking, people are always trying to pet him when I have him out without asking my permission of course. If he's introduced to them properly, he's ok with them, but if they just grab at him and reach to touch the top of his head he will try to get away and if he can't get away he'll snap. It takes him a few months before he'll really get comfortable with someone we see infrequently. We take the same walk every day and it took that long before he got used to the people at the pet store and would let them pet him. He's never bitten me and I really don't think he ever would because he's so submissive to me. If he ever bit me, I'd probably have him put down.
He has SHARP little teeth and a strong bite. It frustrates me to no end how people will react to him when I have him out. Someone reaches for him and I ask them not to because he doesn't like strangers and will bite. Usually that person says something like "Oh I'm sure he won't bite me" and continues to reach for him so I have to physically put myself between that person and my dog. I'm sure that's the same kind of person that would sue me if they did get bitten. I can guarantee if I had a pitbull and told people it bites they wouldn't act that stupidly. I am always shocked at how little people know about dog etiquette. Something as simple as asking the owner's permission before petting a dog is lost on them. I'm happy to introduce them to my dog properly and he'll let them pet him, but if they just grab at him he will NOT tolerate it.
Quoting
I have a hairless rat terrier. He isn't aggressive or dominant, if he was I wouldn't have so much trouble dealing with him because I'm used to that having owned bully breeds. Bully breeds all have a tendency towards dominance, but establishing yourself as the pack leader is so easy that I never had any trouble with them. Just make them work for their food and do simple submission exercises and they'll happily accept their position as submissive to their owner. Most of them LOVE people so much that they will gladly let strangers pet them (it's dog agression that you always have to watch out for).
[
Tracy ... would love to know about your "15 pound terrier". Sounds like my girl. She's a Jack Russell, and they are VERY similar in temperment to pitbulls. Difference being, they're a hell of a lot smaller, look so cute and harmless and are more likely to get away with misbehaving than their larger cousins, pitbulls.
Mine is the first dog I've ever owned who actually got away with biting me. Normally that's just plain unacceptable ... but I realized it was MY handling of her that caused the problem, not the dog's fault. If you're not alpha 100% of the time with them, there can be big trouble. We adjusted by simply not allowing alpha dog behaviour in her, and the problem was solved. She's still allowed to grumble under her breath, but no aggression is tolerated.
.
Tracy ... would love to know about your "15 pound terrier".
Sounds like my girl. She's a Jack Russell, and they are VERY similar in temperment to pitbulls. Difference being, they're a hell of a lot smaller, look so cute and harmless and are more likely to get away with misbehaving than their larger cousins, pitbulls.Mine is the first dog I've ever owned who actually got away with biting me. Normally that's just plain unacceptable ... but I realized it was MY handling of her that caused the problem, not the dog's fault. If you're not alpha 100% of the time with them, there can be big trouble. We adjusted by simply not allowing alpha dog behaviour in her, and the problem was solved. She's still allowed to grumble under her breath, but no aggression is tolerated.
.
My little dog is a fear biter. I never had any problems with him biting until a run in with a crazy lady that just traumatized him. He never liked strangers all that much, but now he just doesn't want them to touch him. Because he's little and so unique looking, people are always trying to pet him when I have him out without asking my permission of course. If he's introduced to them properly, he's ok with them, but if they just grab at him and reach to touch the top of his head he will try to get away and if he can't get away he'll snap. It takes him a few months before he'll really get comfortable with someone we see infrequently. We take the same walk every day and it took that long before he got used to the people at the pet store and would let them pet him. He's never bitten me and I really don't think he ever would because he's so submissive to me. If he ever bit me, I'd probably have him put down.
He has SHARP little teeth and a strong bite. It frustrates me to no end how people will react to him when I have him out. Someone reaches for him and I ask them not to because he doesn't like strangers and will bite. Usually that person says something like "Oh I'm sure he won't bite me" and continues to reach for him so I have to physically put myself between that person and my dog. I'm sure that's the same kind of person that would sue me if they did get bitten. I can guarantee if I had a pitbull and told people it bites they wouldn't act that stupidly. I am always shocked at how little people know about dog etiquette. Something as simple as asking the owner's permission before petting a dog is lost on them. I'm happy to introduce them to my dog properly and he'll let them pet him, but if they just grab at him he will NOT tolerate it.
Newbie
Posts: 1
August 25th, 2006, 06:26 PM
Pitbulls are great dogs. And banning them to stop bites is a stupid and pointless idea. How many of you have ever seen an American Bulldog? How about a padderdale Terrier? Those are just two breeds of many that look like a pit. So passing a law that bans pitbulls will end up in the pick up of several different types of terriers, bulldogs as well as pitbulls that never did anything wrong. And has anyone ever heard of dog racism?
Pitbulls are great dogs. And banning them to stop bites is a stupid and pointless idea. How many of you have ever seen an American Bulldog? How about a padderdale Terrier? Those are just two breeds of many that look like a pit. So passing a law that bans pitbulls will end up in the pick up of several different types of terriers, bulldogs as well as pitbulls that never did anything wrong. And has anyone ever heard of dog racism?
Time Out
Posts: 252
August 25th, 2006, 06:59 PM
I used to cohabitate with a wolf (you don't own a creature like that), it was the best animal I have ever been blessed with. The neighbor found out it was a wolf and the animal control came and ceased it. I was told it was a dangerous animal and it wasn't legal to have him. I've owned Dobies that were dead dumb and more dangerous than that blessed creature. Total ignorance. Each animal is like a person, different personalities.
I used to cohabitate with a wolf (you don't own a creature like that), it was the best animal I have ever been blessed with. The neighbor found out it was a wolf and the animal control came and ceased it. I was told it was a dangerous animal and it wasn't legal to have him. I've owned Dobies that were dead dumb and more dangerous than that blessed creature. Total ignorance. Each animal is like a person, different personalities.
