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More b.s. from French-Canada......

More b.s. from French-Canada......

gerryh

#31

Re: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 24th, 2004

Quote:

Pity the poor French! Poutine is not french cuisine. In France it wouldn't even be fit for a dog.

There you are with France again. We're not talking about France. We are talking about Quebec. It's like comparing British Columbia with England..... IT doesn't wash.

Reverend Blair

#32

Re: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 24th, 2004

Quote:

My point is that it is disingenuous for Quebec's elite to keep misappropriating French culture and language.

I don't see them doing that at all. I do see the promotion of Quebecois culture, including its language, food, and traditions. Not a lot different than any other group, really.

Andem

#33

RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 24th, 2004

Sorry, I just gotta step in and agree with Mediana for a second. Having lived in Quebec for a while, I'm very aware that:

- French food is nothing like Quebec food and vice versa
- Quebecois is incomprehensable to French people.. The swiss and belgian can't even really make out what they're trying to say.
- The whole culture thing, while maybe linked to 19th century French culture, is not the same as current-day France.

Hope I cleared up some stuff.

gerryh

#34

Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 24th, 2004

Quote: Originally Posted by Andem

Sorry, I just gotta step in and agree with Mediana for a second. Having lived in Quebec for a while, I'm very aware that:

- French food is nothing like Quebec food and vice versa
- Quebecois is incomprehensable to French people.. The swiss and belgian can't even really make out what they're trying to say.
- The whole culture thing, while maybe linked to 19th century French culture, is not the same as current-day France.

Hope I cleared up some stuff.

That's just wonderful and no arguments from anywhere on any of that...BUT..... when talking about quebec(french) culture and language they are not talking about France(french) culture and language. It is Quebec...Quebecois...... NOT France... it is unique and seperate. Throwing in France is a red herring put forward by those that know not what they are talking about and are unable to mount any kind of an argument against preserving the French(Quebec) culture and language.

Mediana

#35

Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 24th, 2004

Quote: Originally Posted by LadyC

Well, the French eat snails.
Your point?

The same as yours, namely that Quebecers and the French are two distinctly different groups with a different culture and language.

By your own admission, your teacher -- whom you mentioned was Scottish -- is doing more to promote the French language in Canada than the so-called pure laine Quebecers. She is not alone. There are teachers of all ethnic backgrounds including Anglo-Saxons who are busy at work across Canada teaching proper French.

Joual speaking Quebecers, and separatists in particular, clearly have no idea what they are talking about when they make the claim they are the defenders of French in North America. If anything, they undermine efforts to use International French as a binding force for francophones of all walks of life in Canada.

Mediana

#36

Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 24th, 2004

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh

Throwing in France is a red herring put forward by those that know not what they are talking about and are unable to mount any kind of an argument against preserving the French(Quebec) culture and language.

The real red herring in this whole thread is the word "French".

Repeat after me: Quebec culture is not French culture. Quebec patois is not French.

Your problem gerryh is that your way of thinking makes no allowances for recent immigrants from France to enjoy their culture in Canada the way all other nationalities on the planet can. The real French are persona non grata. Let the pures laines usurp their cultural identity, eh?

gerryh

#37

Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 24th, 2004

Quote: Originally Posted by Mediana

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh
Throwing in France is a red herring put forward by those that know not what they are talking about and are unable to mount any kind of an argument against preserving the French(Quebec) culture and language.
The real red herring in this whole thread is the word "French".

Repeat after me: Quebec culture is not French culture. Quebec patois is not French.

Your problem gerryh is that your way of thinking makes no allowances for recent immigrants from France to enjoy their culture in Canada the way all other nationalities on the planet can. The real French are persona non grata. Let the pures laines usurp their cultural identity, eh?

That's right...Quebecois is NOT French(as in France french) but is still French, just like the language spoken in the rest of Canada is called English but when compared to the English spoken in some parts of London (let alone some parts of England) is nowhere near the same(try understanding cockny....lol). Quebec has been gaurenteed cultural and language autonomy. You can call it what you want, I really don't give a ****. The fact still remains that Quebec was given certain rights, was made certain promises and it is well within their rights to ensure that THEIR culture and Language is not diluted or usurped by someone elses.

Quebec has a unique position in Canada, and it is a position that was fought long and hard for.

LadyC

#38

RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 24th, 2004

Mediana...
I should perhaps mention that when my teacher went to Paris with her "perfect Parisian accent" no-one could understand her. Her husband with his Québecois accent, on the other hand...

And please, don't insult my intelligence by pretending you were trying to point out that Quebecers and the French are two distinctly different groups with a different culture and language when you posted the picture of poutine. If that were the case, why would you describe it as something that wouldn't even be fit for a dog in France?

sj007

#39

Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 24th, 2004

Quote: Originally Posted by Mediana

When francophone Quebecers talk about preserving the French language in North America, they are in fact refering to an archaic form which is in no way related to the international french taught in immersion programs across Canada.

hey some schools in quebec do follow the norm of internationation french a as said before it is a dialect

why do some english ppl insist on spellin colour w/o the u regonalism just bear that in mind

and the quebec french language is not archaic shure some ppl have an ccent but genraly its the same

Mediana

#40

Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 25th, 2004

Quote: Originally Posted by LadyC

Mediana...
I should perhaps mention that when my teacher went to Paris with her "perfect Parisian accent" no-one could understand her. Her husband with his Québecois accent, on the other hand...

Rubbish.

How can a "perfect Parisian accent" be unintelligible in Paris? Your second-hand anecdote makes absolutely no sense.

I lived in Paris for four years and I can tell you for a fact that Jane Birkin's French is infintely more comprehensible to the French than Linda Lemay's. The accent, syntax and vocabulary of the Quebecois dialect is very difficult for the French to understand -- Ah j'sais qu't'es en hostie pi qu't'en as jusque là vec moé, mais tabarnouche, tabarouette, t'es triste LadyC comme un vieux crisse!.

Quote: Originally Posted by LadyC

And please, don't insult my intelligence by pretending you were trying to point out that Quebecers and the French are two distinctly different groups with a different culture and language when you posted the picture of poutine. If that were the case, why would you describe it as something that wouldn't even be fit for a dog in France?

Firstly, your intelligence, or lack thereof, is not at issue here.

Secondly, I used the example of poutine to demonstrate how this staple of the Quebecois diet is the very antithesis of French food -- thus making the point Quebecers are not the defenders of French culture. Any Quebecer who makes the claim they are proctecting French culture in North America is a scurrilous liar. For decades Quebecers have conspired to downplay the significance of francophone populations in other provinces (including the Acadians of New Brunswick) as a way of bolstering their claims of distinctiveness. Separatists have a tradition of playing both sides of the french debate. Their contempt for other francophones outside la belle province is secondary only to their hatred of les Anglais et les Allophones. Qu'ils aient au diable, bandes de crétins.

LadyC

#41

RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 25th, 2004

First off, I said she prided herself on her "perfect Parisian accent", not that she had one. Furthermore, I believe the point she was trying to make was that there's no point in affecting a snobbery surrounding the language. Accents are different - none are any better or worse than another. The very fact that someone is attempting to speak your language should be good enough.

Is poutine truly a staple in Quebec, much the same as rice and potatoes? Or is it one of those fast food items like fries?

I've been to France - they eat the same food we do - other than one particularly disgusting dish I was served one night. The only word I recognized was "porc", and only the man ate it... so it wasn't a staple of their diet either. Otherwise, we ate meat, potatoes, salad and other veggies. Same as here. But maybe the family I stayed with wasn't "cultured" in the French ways.

Ah j'sais qu't'es en hostie pi qu't'en as jusque là vec moé, mais tabarnouche, tabarouette, t'es triste LadyC comme un vieux crisse!.
I recognize my name and a few other words.

Reverend Blair

#42

Re: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 25th, 2004

Quote:

Well, the French eat snails.

So do I, Lady C. You can buy them in tins at Safeway, saute them up with butter and garlic and onions and mushrooms. Most days I just eat cheeseburgers though.

Quote:

thus making the point Quebecers are not the defenders of French culture.

No, they are the defenders of Quebec culture.

Quote:

Secondly, I used the example of poutine to demonstrate how this staple of the Quebecois diet is the very antithesis of French food

So? Bring somebody from the Ukraine to Ituna, Sask. and feed them what we think of as authentic Ukrainian food and they'll do their best to be polite, but you can tell it isn't the same.

They also use a lot of different words, especially for things that were invented after the people in Ituna moved here.

Mediana

#43

Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 25th, 2004

Quote: Originally Posted by sj007

and the quebec french language is not archaic shure some ppl have an ccent but genraly its the same

Don't take my word for it...

Here's a seriously informative webpage dealing with the archaic nature of Quebec French.

--

Its an excellent read for anybody, especially non-french speakers, who want to know why Quebecers are so darn full of themselves, yet at the same time afflicted with a terrible inferiority complex.

gerryh

#44

Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 26th, 2004

Quote: Originally Posted by Mediana

Quote: Originally Posted by sj007
and the quebec french language is not archaic shure some ppl have an ccent but genraly its the same
Don't take my word for it...

Here's a seriously informative webpage dealing with the archaic nature of Quebec French.

--

Its an excellent read for anybody, especially non-french speakers, who want to know why Quebecers are so darn full of themselves, yet at the same time afflicted with a terrible inferiority complex.

Well..... I guess I have only one thing to say....ROFLMAO.......

LadyC

#45

RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 26th, 2004

And I'd like to add...
Gerry, your avatar is totally creeping me out. Any nightmares I have tonight I blame on you.

Mediana

#46

Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 26th, 2004

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh

Well..... I guess I have only one thing to say....ROFLMAO.......

Did you at least read it? Or are you still amusing yourself on the floor?

Mediana

#47

Re: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 26th, 2004

Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair

Quote:
My point is that it is disingenuous for Quebec's elite to keep misappropriating French culture and language.
I don't see them doing that at all. I do see the promotion of Quebecois culture, including its language, food, and traditions. Not a lot different than any other group, really.

Not quite. You see, the vilification of English in Quebec doesn't tell the whole story. Quebecois culture, including its language, food, and traditions, is even under greater threat from francophones immigrating from other countries.

Like a trojan horse, once these immigrants gain entry into the province they overwhelmingly reject Quebec French and Quebec culture. Unwittingly, in an attempt to curry favour for an eventual separation from Canada, the Péquiste paved the way for the establishment of ethnically based schools (Jewish, Greek, Armenian, Maghreb, etc) which, to their detriment, favour the instruction of International French.

If the current trends of immigration and cultural appartenance continue, it will be the francophones and allophones from the ethnic diasporas -- not the maudit Anglais -- who will be the undoing of pure laine Quebec.

Basically, they've painted themselves into a corner because every protectionist provision put into law deals with the preservation of French -- and not specifically Quebec's non-standardized dialect nor its indigenous culture. By appropriating a broad definition, even the Office de la Langue Francaise, with its fascistic powers, can do nothing to stem the tide towards an internationalist brand of French and francophone culture.

Its just too bad "English Canada" continues to be singled out as the bad guy...

no1important

#48

RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 26th, 2004

I agree. I don't know why we are being singled out as the bad guy. I wish I knew what Quebec really wants. If they are not happy being and living in Canada then leave. Leave I mean move to another french country not seperate and leave the land as it belongs to Canada. No one is stopping anyone in Quebec from leaving Canada. Quebecors don't understand how lucky they are to be living in Canada any other place a civil war would ensure. Plus what other country would allow seperatists to get elected or let alone run. We are truly a free and democratic society and if they dont like it here immigrate elsewhere.

Quebec should quit its whining and threats and join the rest of the Canadian family insteading of constantly black mailing the rest of Canada. They get more than their fair share from Ottawa and they are still not happy. I for one am so sick of the Whining enough already.

Don't get me going on Chretien and the whole sponsorship scandel.

Reverend Blair

#49

Re: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 26th, 2004

Quote:

Quebec should quit its whining and threats and join the rest of the Canadian family insteading of constantly black mailing the rest of Canada.

Does that apply to L'il Stevie Harper and his firewall around Alberta theory too? How 'bout to all those "westerners" (it's really "oil patchers") who start whining about how they should separate from Canada every single time they don't get their way?

Lets kick Stevie and Ralph out, but make them leave the oil behind.

[/quote]

no1important

#50

RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 26th, 2004

Well i guess it does but Steven Harper will never be Prime minister.

However you seem to forget the feds stole oil from the west to give cheap to Ontario and Quebec. Thats why Alberta is pissed. That being said I think Alberta is the only province that shares American ideology.

no1important

#51

Re: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 26th, 2004

I also forgot to mention the west BC and ALberta have always basically been have provinces where Quebec has always been a have not. Quebec always gets more dough per capita than other part of Canada and they should be grateful for the money they recieve from equalization and black mail money they get so they don't leave.

Life is tough and you always dont get what you want. Quebec won't even talk in good faith, let alone compromise. The politicans are greedy and selfish. You don't see other provinces going to the extremes to seperate like Quebec. Two votes, 2 failures. Give it up already. Quebec is lucky we are a civilized free country that even allows them to try and seperate.

If Quebec wants to leave why should the rest of Canada continue supporting them and giving them money they keep wasting?

Quebec is the SPOILED child of Canada and desperatly needs a trip to the "Woodshed".

Further more they the seperatist in my opinion should be hanged for treason. A little known fact Canada still has the death penalty for treason. In any other Country the Bloc and PQ leaders would be hanged. That alone shows how much patience we have with dealing with the spoiled brats and country wannabe breaker from Quebec.

Quebec should just grow up and get in with the rest of Canada because in reality they ain't going anywhere.

gerryh

#52

RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 27th, 2004

I just love this...... The British(english) made promises to not only the French of Lower Canada(Quebec) but also the First Nations. When either of these people want to enforce and maintain these promises and agreements, the ROC start whining and we get the usual comeback of "they get more than their fair share".

I supplied a link earlier that told the basics of how this country came together. Lower Canada did NOT need to join confederation. They could have split off then or joined the yanks. Instead they negotiated a deal to join Upper Canada and become the Dominion of Canada.

Read your damn history and quit whining so damn much yourselves.

Reverend Blair

#53

Re: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 27th, 2004

Quote:

However you seem to forget the feds stole oil from the west to give cheap to Ontario and Quebec.

Ya know, I grew up in the west mostly. We moved to Ottawa when I was a kid though, right in the middle of the NEP. I got a glimpse of both sides. Nobody stole **** all from Alberta, Trudeau just made them act like Canadians instead of Americans.

They're still pissed off about it? Good...they can pick up and move then. Without their land or the oil under it, of course.

no1important

#54

RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 28th, 2004

It was stolen. The feds would never steal from Quebec or Ontario to give to the west. It is and always has been more politically advantagous for the feds especially liberal PM's to steal from west to give to east as we in the west do not have our fair share of representation in the commons and the old age home(senate). As far as I am concerned why don't Quebec act like Canadians instead of always threatning to seperate?

gerryh

#55

Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 28th, 2004

Quote: Originally Posted by no1important

It was stolen. The feds would never steal from Quebec or Ontario to give to the west. It is and always has been more politically advantagous for the feds especially liberal PM's to steal from west to give to east as we in the west do not have our fair share of representation in the commons and the old age home(senate). As far as I am concerned why don't Quebec act like Canadians instead of always threatning to seperate?

What a pile of crap.....what an egotistical, self centered, and greedy attitude to take. The oil and gas in Alberta....the Hydro electric and forestry in BC belong to ALL Canadians. NOTjust those that happen to live in the "west". Grab a brain and become a Canadian.

sj007

#56

RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 28th, 2004

yea plz do

gerryh

#57

Re: RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 29th, 2004

Quote: Originally Posted by sj007

yea plz do

Can you be a lil more specific as to who this is refering to?

no1important

#58

RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 29th, 2004

probably me.

Quebecors never quit whining and refuse to become Canadaians like us out west.

sj007

#59

RE: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 29th, 2004

thats all i do all night and day 24/7

Reverend Blair

#60

Re: More b.s. from French-Canada......

Nov 29th, 2004

Quote:

Quebecors never quit whining and refuse to become Canadaians like us out west.

...and for most of my life I've been listening to few rich guys from Alberta whining, "They stole all our oil, they want us to speak French, they want to preserve the environment, they call Ralph Klein and Stephen Harper names, they made Stockwell change his name to Doris."

Suck it up and start acting like Canadians, oil patch people. That means not electing a regional rump party every federal election, not screaming that everything is Ottawa's fault, not trying to undermine national treasures like universal health care, and not calling everybody from outside your borders communists.

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