#1Nov 17th, 2004
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/.../specialScienceandHealth/
The stupid thing about this is, international cooperation and some seriously fast footwork could preclude this from being nearly as bad as predicted.
Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/.../specialScienceandHealth/
The stupid thing about this is, international cooperation and some seriously fast footwork could preclude this from being nearly as bad as predicted.
#2
RE: Pandemic: Coming soon
Nov 17th, 2004
Hey, you never know. The 1918 pandemic is said to have done wonders in bringing WWI to an early end...maybe it'll end the current stupidity too.
#3
Re: RE: Pandemic: Coming soon
Nov 17th, 2004Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair
Well, this is true, and if it stopped after killing the current stupidity then only one person will have died from it. They'd have to find someone other than Cheney to replace him, though.Hey, you never know. The 1918 pandemic is said to have done wonders in bringing WWI to an early end...maybe it'll end the current stupidity too.
Oh wait! You don't mean Bush! 8-) Interestingly, though, a pandemic really would do wonders for resetting some reality clocks. There would be much chaos, yes, but that's about what is needed to wake the sleeping people. This is just about worth a thread of its own, 'what is the upside of the coming pandemic?', because there actually would be an upside on many levels.
#4
RE: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 17th, 2004
We can all take measures to evolve our immune systems, right now, in an order to repell any and all illnesses.. Even of pandemic proportions.
For many years I have been taking steps towards creating a "Highly Evolved Immune System" in my pwn body.
After becoming very ill behind the flu shot, about 10 years ago, I calledupon my trusted herbal practitioner as well as my own studies in human healing and created what I call, The Anti-venom. If you are interested in the results, please PM me and I will happily share. I want this to be personal, due to my great hatred of the Western Medicle Community and its obvious affiliations with the Pharmacy Community. They are sleeping together, I just know it.
The Abti-venom is simple, inexpensive and easily attainable. Painless and non-chemical.
So, give a shout via the PM service here, and we will get you set up.
For many years I have been taking steps towards creating a "Highly Evolved Immune System" in my pwn body.
After becoming very ill behind the flu shot, about 10 years ago, I calledupon my trusted herbal practitioner as well as my own studies in human healing and created what I call, The Anti-venom. If you are interested in the results, please PM me and I will happily share. I want this to be personal, due to my great hatred of the Western Medicle Community and its obvious affiliations with the Pharmacy Community. They are sleeping together, I just know it.
The Abti-venom is simple, inexpensive and easily attainable. Painless and non-chemical.
So, give a shout via the PM service here, and we will get you set up.
#5
Re: RE: Pandemic: Coming soon
Nov 17th, 2004Quote: Originally Posted by Reverend Blair
Uh... no, the pandemic came mostly after the war, it wasn't much of a factor in ending it. It's true that in June of 1918 the first outbreak of the flu laid low about half a million German soldiers, and that left Ludendorff unable to sustain pressure in an attack against French and American forces across the River Matz, but Germany was pretty much beaten by then anyway, but wasn't yet ready to admit it. The major outbreak of the so-called Spanish Influenza didn't start until late in the fall of 1918, after the armistice. I refer you to John Keegan's most excellent bestseller, The First World War, page 408. Hey, you never know. The 1918 pandemic is said to have done wonders in bringing WWI to an early end...maybe it'll end the current stupidity too.
Dex
#6
RE: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 17th, 2004
I agree edgerunner that the Pharmaceutical companies have their fingers firmly on the strings of the puppet physicials that prescribe their medication. I try to steer clear of most drugs, and avoid the flu shot at all costs.
In similar veins my mother is very into the healing touch and does a lot of work on herself, and seems to keep in very good health. The human body is an amazing thing when you allow it to protect itself.
In similar veins my mother is very into the healing touch and does a lot of work on herself, and seems to keep in very good health. The human body is an amazing thing when you allow it to protect itself.
#7
Re: RE: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 18th, 2004Quote: Originally Posted by Diamond Sun
You really think physicians are puppets of the drug companies? No doubt some are, I've met a few pill-pushers and quickly sought another doctor, but I doubt that many of them are captives. I agree edgerunner that the Pharmaceutical companies have their fingers firmly on the strings of the puppet physicials that prescribe their medication. I try to steer clear of most drugs, and avoid the flu shot at all costs.
In similar veins my mother is very into the healing touch and does a lot of work on herself, and seems to keep in very good health. The human body is an amazing thing when you allow it to protect itself.
Sounds like you and Edgerunner are into a bit of conspiracy theory and alternative medicine. Does it strike you as mere coincidence that human life expectancy has more than doubled in precise parallel with the rise of modern scientific medicine? There's really no such thing as "alternative medicine," there are treatments that work and treatments that don't, and most of what's called alternative medicine is in the latter category. Reiki, therapeutic touch, iridology, reflexology, homeopathy, and the host of other New Age therapies are, almost without exception, frauds and hoaxes that don't pass even the most cursory scientific scrutiny. They demonstrably don't work when properly tested.
Dex
#8
Re: RE: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 19th, 2004Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister
I noticed you didn't mention chiropractic They demonstrably don't work when properly tested.
They used to be called quacks and charlatans too. Now the chiropractors are doing the calling, saying TT is quackery 
I don't know much about this topic (and don't really care to) but I have friends who do and many people swear by it. A lot of it has to do with staying healthy, rather than curing sickness. In many parts of Asia, you pay your doctor when you're well. If you're sick, the doctor has failed you.
Anyway, I avoid medicine of any form (except recreational :P ) as much as possible but I'm keeping an open mind.
#9
RE: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 19th, 2004
There's a fine line with modern medicine. There can be no question of the benefits mankind has seen, but on the other hand, the pharmaceutical companies have run rampant, especially in later years.
The temptations dangled before doctors by the pharmaceutical companies is nothing short of appalling, so much so that the government has started to investigate and stop some of the practices. Do the doctors fall for the freebies? You betcha.
Another negative aspect of modern medicine is, surprisingly, the media. The media has created a circus of sorts... here is a scenario that happens over and over again:
A good drug is created. The drug in question does an outstanding job doing what it is supposed to do: fixing one particular problem. It has been well-tested and is safe and effective.
It also appears ('appears' being an important key word here) to have other benefits as well, but those benefits need further investigation.
The media gets wind of this new drug... they don't spend a lot of time checking their facts, though. The drug is quickly touted by the media as the next Wonder Drug.
Patients soon hear of this new Wonder Drug and demand that their doctors prescribe the drug. Caught up in the hype, doctors start to prescribe it too much too often to too many of the wrong people, and inevitably, somebody dies from the side-effects of the hapless Wonder Drug. It is then condemned as 'dangerous' by the media.
Yet another drug perfectly suited for its singular purpose is then removed from the market because of media hype, pharmaceutical greed, patient demands, and the unwillingness of too many doctors to think before prescribing.
The temptations dangled before doctors by the pharmaceutical companies is nothing short of appalling, so much so that the government has started to investigate and stop some of the practices. Do the doctors fall for the freebies? You betcha.
Another negative aspect of modern medicine is, surprisingly, the media. The media has created a circus of sorts... here is a scenario that happens over and over again:
A good drug is created. The drug in question does an outstanding job doing what it is supposed to do: fixing one particular problem. It has been well-tested and is safe and effective.
It also appears ('appears' being an important key word here) to have other benefits as well, but those benefits need further investigation.
The media gets wind of this new drug... they don't spend a lot of time checking their facts, though. The drug is quickly touted by the media as the next Wonder Drug.
Patients soon hear of this new Wonder Drug and demand that their doctors prescribe the drug. Caught up in the hype, doctors start to prescribe it too much too often to too many of the wrong people, and inevitably, somebody dies from the side-effects of the hapless Wonder Drug. It is then condemned as 'dangerous' by the media.
Yet another drug perfectly suited for its singular purpose is then removed from the market because of media hype, pharmaceutical greed, patient demands, and the unwillingness of too many doctors to think before prescribing.
#10
Re: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 19th, 2004
Many must die so that few (the elites) may live.
Afterall the Rockefellers are big fans of depopulation, albeit a good cause, just not the way they wish to proceed.
Afterall the Rockefellers are big fans of depopulation, albeit a good cause, just not the way they wish to proceed.
#11
Re: RE: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 20th, 2004Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister
In fact, some have shown merit while others have shown no merit. I believe a greater amount still needs to be assessed scientifically or needs further scrutiny. As was pointed out chiropractic was once listed as being a "new age therapy". Just yesterday, CBC reported on a treatment for premature infants (I believe it was called Kangaroo or something of the sort in which the newborn is kept against mother's skin and between her breasts) in place of standard incubators. A study showed this method to be at least as effective as incubators. Not all premies would qualify for the treatment, but for those that had stable vitals, is was just as effective. As more of the homeopathies are understood, I think we will find the best method of treating patients will fall somewhere in between homeopathy and current standard practice. Let's not forget, a mere 40(ish) years ago, immediately following my birth, best practice was feeding infants a formula mixture. What would then have been considered a homeopathic remedy, breast feeding, is now widely understood to be best practice.Quote: Originally Posted by Diamond SunI agree edgerunner that the Pharmaceutical companies have their fingers firmly on the strings of the puppet physicials that prescribe their medication. I try to steer clear of most drugs, and avoid the flu shot at all costs.
Quote has been trimmed
In similar veins my mother is very into the healing touch and does a lot of work on herself, and seems to keep in very good health. The human body is an amazing thing when you allow it to protect itself.You really think physicians are puppets of the drug companies? No doubt some are, I've met a few pill-pushers and quickly sought another doctor, but I doubt that many of them are captives.
Sounds like you and Edgerunner are into a bit of conspiracy theory and alternative medicine. Does it strike you as mere coincidence that human life expectancy has more than doubled in precise parallel with the rise of modern scientific medicine? There's really no such thing as "alternative medicine," there are treatments that work and treatments that don't, and most of what's called alternative medicine is in the latter category. Reiki, therapeutic touch, iridology, reflexology, homeopathy, and the host of other New Age therapies are, almost without exception, frauds and hoaxes that don't pass even the most cursory scientific scrutiny. They demonstrably don't work...
#12
RE: Pandemic: Coming soon
Nov 20th, 2004
I use my bad habits to protect me. I smoke and drink and generally make my body so unhospitable for germs and micro-organisms that they don't dare attack me. 
#13
Re: RE: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 20th, 2004Quote: Originally Posted by passpatoo
That has nothing to do with homeopathy; you need to do a little research on the subject. I suggest you start here: --. Breast feeding would never have been considered a homeopathic remedy. The essence of homeopathy is that like cures like: vanishingly small doses of things that cause certain symptoms in healthy people will cure sick people of the same symptoms. For instance, poison ivy causes skin rashes. A homeopath would take the irritant from the poison ivy plant, dilute it repeatedly in water or alcohol so thoroughly that there won't be even one molecule of the stuff left in the final mixture, and offer it as a treatment for the rash. It used to be called sympathetic magic, and there's no validity to it at all, it's complete nonsense. ... What would then have been considered a homeopathic remedy, breast feeding, is now widely understood to be best practice.
As for chiropractic, have a look at this one: --
and this one: -- and scroll down a bit to the section on chiropractic. Chiropractors can do some good when they restrict themselves to what amounts to massage therapy, but the theoretical essence of it, spinal subluxations, is totally without merit.
And for Just the Facts, who objected that I didn't mention chiropractic in my original post, here's a partial list of some of the nonsense that pervades today's world, none of which have any detectable substance to them:
astrology, palmistry, graphology, iridology, reflexology, reincarnation, recovered memories (especially of childhood sexual abuse), astral projection, out of body experiences, channelling spirits (either people long dead, or aliens from the Pleiades, or anyone else), telepathy, teleportation, telekinesis, psychokinetic powers of any sort, clairvoyance, any link between quantum physics and consciousness, hidden codes in the Bible, anything Nostradamus ever wrote and anything anyone now thinks it might mean, almost anything based on a literal interpretation of Scripture, the healing power of crystals, tarot cards, Ouija boards, homeopathy, pyramidology, psi in any form or manifestation, dowsing, ancient astronauts, UFOs as alien visitations, most herbal medicine and naturopathy, most self-help books (especially ones whose authors prominently identify themselves as “Ph.D.” or “M.D.”), most works about Atlantis, except the ones that identify it with Cretan or Minoan civilization, anything about Lemuria or Mu, most aspects of most religions...ah, the list is endless
There is no end to the mystic nonsense in this culture, promoted by con artists and frauds, irresponsible mass media, an irrational world view that supports unsupportable claims, and a general ineffectiveness of public education, which fails to teach the basic skills of critical thinking. We teach people what to think, not how to think.
I've spent a good part of the last 20 years trying to learn how to think clearly and critically, and I think I've got it mostly right now, but I still screw up sometimes.
#14
Re: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 21st, 2004
Hello Diamond Sun,
I am curious about why you avoid flu shots.
When I started working outside the home after many years of being at home raising my children, I got a horrible case of flu. I was off work for days and days, and felt like I was going to die. Actually, I wished I would! My doctor told me that it was because I was now exposing myself to many more people than I was used to, riding the bus to work, working in a closed-in highrise, taking elevators, and I didn't have the immunity I needed to do those things. He recommended that I get a flu shot every year, which I have done, and from that day on I haven't once had the flu.
I have never had a reaction to the shots other than a slightly sore arm for a day or two from the needle. Only people who are allergic to eggs should avoid them, as the virus is grown in eggs apparently. I swear by flu shots, and wouldn't think of not having one.
The flu shot consists of a killed virus, not a live one, and so it isn't possible to get the flu from a flu shot. They have worked their wonders for me.
I am curious about why you avoid flu shots.
When I started working outside the home after many years of being at home raising my children, I got a horrible case of flu. I was off work for days and days, and felt like I was going to die. Actually, I wished I would! My doctor told me that it was because I was now exposing myself to many more people than I was used to, riding the bus to work, working in a closed-in highrise, taking elevators, and I didn't have the immunity I needed to do those things. He recommended that I get a flu shot every year, which I have done, and from that day on I haven't once had the flu.
I have never had a reaction to the shots other than a slightly sore arm for a day or two from the needle. Only people who are allergic to eggs should avoid them, as the virus is grown in eggs apparently. I swear by flu shots, and wouldn't think of not having one.
The flu shot consists of a killed virus, not a live one, and so it isn't possible to get the flu from a flu shot. They have worked their wonders for me.
#15
RE: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 21st, 2004
I don't get the flu shot either, Omega. I don't get sick often, and when I do it's not usually serious. I don't think the flu is too bad - I see it as my body's way of telling me I should take it easy.
If I had a job where I was around people, like a teacher or a nurse, I'd probably get the shot, but for me, there's really no point. At least not right now.
If I had a job where I was around people, like a teacher or a nurse, I'd probably get the shot, but for me, there's really no point. At least not right now.
#16
RE: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 21st, 2004
To me, the most interesting thing about the 'flu vaccine is that there has been virtually no research done to confirm long-term safety.
There is a possible link to Alzheimers for people who get the shot every year. There are also studies that indicate a possible connection to autism from the excessive dose of mercury contained in the shot, a dose many times higher than considered safe. In California, a possible connection has been found between the 'flu vaccine and autism (cases of autism have increased by more than 400% since 'flu shots have been in common use in California), the high level of mercury in the shot being the suspected cause.
The solution to the mercury problem has been the production of a mercury-free or low-mercury vaccine, but it does beg the question: which is worse, a temporary illness from the 'flu itself or unknown long-term problems from possible side-effects with the shot?
My sister has, for many years, received the vaccine. She swears this is why she rarely gets the 'flu. I have, for the same years, never received the vaccine. I get the 'flu just slightly less often than she does.
There is a possible link to Alzheimers for people who get the shot every year. There are also studies that indicate a possible connection to autism from the excessive dose of mercury contained in the shot, a dose many times higher than considered safe. In California, a possible connection has been found between the 'flu vaccine and autism (cases of autism have increased by more than 400% since 'flu shots have been in common use in California), the high level of mercury in the shot being the suspected cause.
The solution to the mercury problem has been the production of a mercury-free or low-mercury vaccine, but it does beg the question: which is worse, a temporary illness from the 'flu itself or unknown long-term problems from possible side-effects with the shot?
My sister has, for many years, received the vaccine. She swears this is why she rarely gets the 'flu. I have, for the same years, never received the vaccine. I get the 'flu just slightly less often than she does.
#17
Re: RE: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 21st, 2004
That has nothing to do with homeopathy; you need to do a little research on the subject.
I misused the term homeopathy. I was intending the word to be a reference to medical practices used away from what is standard practice. I think my point still stands.
I misused the term homeopathy. I was intending the word to be a reference to medical practices used away from what is standard practice. I think my point still stands.
#18
Re: RE: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 21st, 2004Quote: Originally Posted by passpatoo
Umm, Passpatoo? You are right, my post has nothing to do with homeopathy... read the thread, please, and specifically, read the two posts prior to mine. I was answering those posts. They are about the 'flu shot. That has nothing to do with homeopathy; you need to do a little research on the subject.
I misused the term homeopathy. I was intending the word to be a reference to medical practices used away from what is standard practice. I think my point still stands.
Just for the record, when I started this thread I wasn't talking about homeopathy then, either. Mind you, I personally do not mind the tangents on which we have wandered. Homeopathy is an interesting topic for discussion, and one more than worthy of its own thread. This thread has become a bit of a mish-mash of pandemics, 'flu shots (which are irrelevant to pandemics), homeopathy, and arguments about the validity of mish-mash produced other than one's own. 8-)
#19
Re: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 21st, 2004
On the general safety of vaccines:
--
On long term side effects:
--
On the supposed link to autism:
--
On mercury in vaccines:
--
Couldn't find anything specific to Alzheimers in this context, but I'd bet heavily it's the same kind of unsubstantiated and irresponsible media coverage that led to the other ideas being disseminated, i.e. there's no good evidence any it's true.
--
On long term side effects:
--
On the supposed link to autism:
--
On mercury in vaccines:
--
Couldn't find anything specific to Alzheimers in this context, but I'd bet heavily it's the same kind of unsubstantiated and irresponsible media coverage that led to the other ideas being disseminated, i.e. there's no good evidence any it's true.
#20
Re: RE: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 21st, 2004Quote: Originally Posted by Haggis McBagpipe
I think Passpatoo was quoting me in the first sentence and managed to delete the codes that would identify it.
Umm, Passpatoo? You are right, my post has nothing to do with homeopathy...
#21
Re: RE: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 21st, 2004Quote: Originally Posted by passpatoo
No, it doesn't. Your point seems to be that there's some substance to what's generally called alternative medicine, of which homeopathy is one example. That's not generally a true statement. There may be some substance to some of them, but until they're properly tested they have to be considered as outside the realm of proper medical practice. Those that have have been tested thoroughly, such as homeopathy, chiropractic, and naturopathy, fail consistently.I think my point still stands.
#22
Re: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 21st, 2004Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister
Dexter, do you mean Stephen Barrett's quack site? Are you not aware that Barrett is a psychiatrist who retired in 1993 and has not been licensed since? There are many legitimate sources for medical information, but Barrett's site isn't one of them... he has little to no credibility in the medical community. You might want to research this guy a bit before using his site to make your point.On the general safety of vaccines:
--
On long term side effects:
--
On the supposed link to autism:
--
On mercury in vaccines:
--
Couldn't find anything specific to Alzheimers in this context, but I'd bet heavily it's the same kind of unsubstantiated and irresponsible media coverage that led to the other ideas being disseminated, i.e. there's no good evidence any it's true.
As for the 'flu vaccine, the argument for autism was strong enough that the American Academy of Pediatrics and the FDA both requested that thermisol (the mercury component of the shot) be removed from all childhood vaccinations.
Immuno-geneticist Dr. H. Hugh Fudenberg, MD is an immunogeneticist who has had over 850 papers published in peer reviewed journals (in other words, he, unlike the quack, is qualified to speak authoratively on the subject).
--
--
Fugenberg sees a possible connection between Alzheimers and regular use of the 'flu vaccine, this from a ten-year study which found that people who have had 5+ consecutive flu shots had a tenfold increased chance of getting the disease, due to the mercury and aluminum present in the vaccines.
This study is not enough research to say without question that there is a connection, no, but it is enough research to say that more research needs to be done in order to properly evaluate the potential risks of the vaccine.
#23
RE: Pandemic: Coming soon
Nov 21st, 2004
There is a lot of validity to homeopathy. The tough is separating the quacks from the real doctors.
For most of human istory we've had some level of folk medicines though, and a lot of them work. Sometimes that is, no doubt, a placebo effect, but the placedo effect is common in mainstream medicine as well.
A lot of homeopathy is just common sense. The way your body works is all interconnected, so making yourself healthier overall is going to help to keep disease at bay.
Other parts of homeopathy are quite well known and have made it into the medical mainstream. We know that women used to induce abotions by taking certain herbs...we developed an abortion pill. We know that certain plants have the effect of killing pain, so we make drugs from everything from opium poppies or design chemicals like ASA that have the same active ingredient that occur naturally in the plants.
If you go to a doctor with a bad back now, you will most likely receive a sheet with suggested exercises on it. That came from Chiropracters. We now have chiropracters and physio-therapists...something that used to be considered "alternative medicine."
We know that gum disease is linked to heart attacks and arthritis, as well as a host of other problems. Our dentist is into homeopathy.
My wife goes to a homeopath quite often. The thing is that he's a licensed physician and is as likely to write a prescription for a mainstream drug as put you on something that is purchased from a healthfood store.
So homeopathy is not just some form of new age quackery that allows current day snake oil salesmen to peddle their wares. It is not only valid, but is slowly and surely being recognised by the mainstream medical sommunity.
For most of human istory we've had some level of folk medicines though, and a lot of them work. Sometimes that is, no doubt, a placebo effect, but the placedo effect is common in mainstream medicine as well.
A lot of homeopathy is just common sense. The way your body works is all interconnected, so making yourself healthier overall is going to help to keep disease at bay.
Other parts of homeopathy are quite well known and have made it into the medical mainstream. We know that women used to induce abotions by taking certain herbs...we developed an abortion pill. We know that certain plants have the effect of killing pain, so we make drugs from everything from opium poppies or design chemicals like ASA that have the same active ingredient that occur naturally in the plants.
If you go to a doctor with a bad back now, you will most likely receive a sheet with suggested exercises on it. That came from Chiropracters. We now have chiropracters and physio-therapists...something that used to be considered "alternative medicine."
We know that gum disease is linked to heart attacks and arthritis, as well as a host of other problems. Our dentist is into homeopathy.
My wife goes to a homeopath quite often. The thing is that he's a licensed physician and is as likely to write a prescription for a mainstream drug as put you on something that is purchased from a healthfood store.
So homeopathy is not just some form of new age quackery that allows current day snake oil salesmen to peddle their wares. It is not only valid, but is slowly and surely being recognised by the mainstream medical sommunity.
#24
Re: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 21st, 2004
No Haggis, and no Reverend, you are both completely wrong.
I'm a professional scientist. I know how science works, I've been doing it and studying it for several decades. Stephen Barrett is legitimate, and his site contains a lot of good information. On subjects on which I have some personal expertise, I find him to be generally correct and credible, and because of that I'm prepared to trust him on subjects I don't know much about.
Homeopathy is a fraud, Reverend, and most of what you wrote about isn't homeopathy anyway. You might usefully check this out:
--
and this:
--
I'm a professional scientist. I know how science works, I've been doing it and studying it for several decades. Stephen Barrett is legitimate, and his site contains a lot of good information. On subjects on which I have some personal expertise, I find him to be generally correct and credible, and because of that I'm prepared to trust him on subjects I don't know much about.
Homeopathy is a fraud, Reverend, and most of what you wrote about isn't homeopathy anyway. You might usefully check this out:
--
and this:
--
#25
Re: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 21st, 2004Quote: Originally Posted by Dexter Sinister
What is your area of scientific expertise, Dexter? I've not heard many true scientists make such absolute statements as yours, so I am curious. You refer to yourself as a 'professional scientist'... as opposed to... what, a layman scientist? Isn't it a bit redundant to qualify 'scientist' with the term 'professional'? No Haggis, and no Reverend, you are both completely wrong.
I'm a professional scientist. I know how science works, I've been doing it and studying it for several decades. Stephen Barrett is legitimate, and his site contains a lot of good information. On subjects on which I have some personal expertise, I find him to be generally correct and credible, and because of that I'm prepared to trust him on subjects I don't know much about.
Homeopathy is a fraud, Reverend, and most of what you wrote about isn't homeopathy anyway. You might usefully check this out:
--
and this:
--
I am also curious to know in what way is Stephen Barrett legitimate? He is an unlicensed psychiatrist... in what way does this make him an authority on immunology?
I cannot imagine a scientist who would credit Barrett as an authority in the areas in which he proclaims to be an authority. Scientists typically prefer to use legitimate sources, and Barrett is not a legitimate source.
#26
Re: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 21st, 2004
Ah, the old ad hominem attack...
My area of expertise? What difference does it make, I know good science when I see it, and bad science when I see it. I'm not an immunologist, if that's what you're fishing for, but I have a Masters degree and among the things I understand best are statistics and epidemiology. I also have significant expertise, and a degree, in engineering physics. I called myself professional as opposed to an amateur, because there is such a thing as an amateur scientist. All it means is that I make my living at it, it's my job.
Dr. Barrett is unlicensed because he's retired from practice and doesn't need to be licensed anymore. His choice; you make it sound as if he was stripped of his credentials by some licensing body. And as a psychiatrist, he must also be an M.D. He's not an authority on immunology, he doesn't claim to be, nor did I suggest any such thing. He doesn't claim to be an authority on a lot of the material he has on his web site. He merely reports on the known science, appropriately referenced, which he is qualified to do, and his site lists dozens of other highly qualified people as advisors and assistants. If you're going to claim he's not a legitimate source of such information, you need to make a better case than just stating it as a fact. Evidence, Haggis, I need evidence.
And what are these absolute statements you say I'm making? That Dr. Barrett is legitimate? As far as I can tell, he is, and I explained why. That homeopathy is a fraud? It is, demonstrably so, and I provided the references that make the case, without, I might add, referencing Barrett's site, since you don't seem to consider it legitimate.
And let me ask you approximately the same question you started with: how much do you know about the nature and methods of science?
Dex
My area of expertise? What difference does it make, I know good science when I see it, and bad science when I see it. I'm not an immunologist, if that's what you're fishing for, but I have a Masters degree and among the things I understand best are statistics and epidemiology. I also have significant expertise, and a degree, in engineering physics. I called myself professional as opposed to an amateur, because there is such a thing as an amateur scientist. All it means is that I make my living at it, it's my job.
Dr. Barrett is unlicensed because he's retired from practice and doesn't need to be licensed anymore. His choice; you make it sound as if he was stripped of his credentials by some licensing body. And as a psychiatrist, he must also be an M.D. He's not an authority on immunology, he doesn't claim to be, nor did I suggest any such thing. He doesn't claim to be an authority on a lot of the material he has on his web site. He merely reports on the known science, appropriately referenced, which he is qualified to do, and his site lists dozens of other highly qualified people as advisors and assistants. If you're going to claim he's not a legitimate source of such information, you need to make a better case than just stating it as a fact. Evidence, Haggis, I need evidence.
And what are these absolute statements you say I'm making? That Dr. Barrett is legitimate? As far as I can tell, he is, and I explained why. That homeopathy is a fraud? It is, demonstrably so, and I provided the references that make the case, without, I might add, referencing Barrett's site, since you don't seem to consider it legitimate.
And let me ask you approximately the same question you started with: how much do you know about the nature and methods of science?
Dex
#27
Re: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 21st, 2004
I didn't get flu shots either, Lady, before I started working downtown. After that very bad bout with the flu tho, I determined I didn't ever want to go through that again. My resistance hadn't built up because I hadn't been exposed to very many bugs. You may want to do the same when you start working again to protect yourself.
I rode the bus to and from work by choice--it was both cheaper and faster than driving a car and parking it. It was amazing to discover how many people cough and sneeze on public transit, and should have been home in bed. The same with offices--people go to work if they are sick or not and it doesn't take much to catch whatever is going around until one's resistance builds up through exposure.
I rode the bus to and from work by choice--it was both cheaper and faster than driving a car and parking it. It was amazing to discover how many people cough and sneeze on public transit, and should have been home in bed. The same with offices--people go to work if they are sick or not and it doesn't take much to catch whatever is going around until one's resistance builds up through exposure.
#28
Re: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 22nd, 2004
Yeah, the whole skeptic community itself is a fraud.
They've themselves have been debunked.
CSICOP -- the Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. They are The Paradigm Police - a organization out to debunk at all costs. They act like it's a religion.
I have debated endlessly with a skeptic friend of my on many of these issues. Ignore that data. Attack the person. It goes on and on.
"Until man duplicates a blade of grass, nature can laugh at his so-called scientific knowledge."
-- Thomas Edison
"The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible."
-- Albert Einstein
They've themselves have been debunked.
CSICOP -- the Committee for Scientific Investigation of Claims of the Paranormal. They are The Paradigm Police - a organization out to debunk at all costs. They act like it's a religion.
I have debated endlessly with a skeptic friend of my on many of these issues. Ignore that data. Attack the person. It goes on and on.
"Until man duplicates a blade of grass, nature can laugh at his so-called scientific knowledge."
-- Thomas Edison
"The most incomprehensible thing about the world is that it is at all comprehensible."
-- Albert Einstein
#29
Re: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 22nd, 2004
I put on a surgical mask when just reading this thread.
#30
Re: Pandemic: Coming soon to a body near you.
Nov 22nd, 2004Quote:
On the contrary...most of what I wrote was considered homeopathy until very recently. Chiropracters are still considered to be witch doctors in some circles. Herbal medicines are a large part of homeopathy. Dietary supplements, including vitamins, used to be considered questionable but have now enetered the mainstream but for some reason the value of other dietary supplements is still denigrated...even as pharmaceutical companies study the effects to come up with new pills.Homeopathy is a fraud, Reverend, and most of what you wrote about isn't homeopathy anyway. You might usefully check this out:
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