‘This cross screams Christianity’: Atheists launch lawsuit over Ground Zero cross


Goober
#1
‘This cross screams Christianity’: Atheists launch lawsuit over Ground Zero cross | National Post

It was the towering charred steel beam shaped like a Christian cross that became a symbol of solace and hope after it was found jutting out of the smouldering debris of the World Trade Centre.

But the so-called Ground Zero Cross is now at the centre of a church-state row as a leading American atheists’ group sues over its inclusion as centrepiece in the new National September 11 Memorial and Museum.

“The overwhelming impression of this cross is religious,” Edwin Kagin, the national legal director for American Atheists, told a New York federal appeals court.

“We are worried about the alienation being suffered by atheists. This cross screams Christianity, but there were perhaps 500 or 1,000 people who died in this tragedy who were not Christians.

“It’s dangerous for this to be in a government-backed display. This is about an endorsement of Christianity. What is wrong with having a plaque that says ’atheists died here, too’?”

American Atheists is demanding that if the 17-foot high cross is not removed as a religious symbol from the state-owned property, the display should be altered to add an atheist monument of similar proportions.

Point- Did not know Atheists have a Monument to their non belief. Could the resident Atheists help a former dirt poor Dumb Down Homer (DDH for those newer members out)? Pulease.


“But there is a difference between displaying an artifact of historical significance and saying we want you [the public] to bless it — museum goers understand that distinction.”

Reena Raggi, a member of the three-judge panel that will deliver its ruling, appeared sceptical of the claims by the atheist group. “There are countless cases of museums including religious artefacts among their exhibits and it’s going to be described in a way that talks about the history of the object, what is the problem here?” she said.

“An argument has been made that you are trying to censor history.”

Eric Baxter, the senior counsel for The Becket Fund for Religious Liberty, who filed a friend-of-the-court brief in the case, described the American Atheists’ argument as “absurd”.

“We are not injured, but enriched, by remembering history as it actually happened, religion and all,” he said.
 
gerryh
+5 / -1
#2
more stupidity from the "rabid" "atheists".
 
Tecumsehsbones
+5
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post



“We are worried about the alienation being suffered by atheists. This cross screams Christianity, but there were perhaps 500 or 1,000 people who died in this tragedy who were not Christians.

And our solution is to further alienate ourselves from the Christian majority by pissing and moaning.
 
Goober
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post

And our solution is to further alienate ourselves from the Christian majority by pissing and moaning.

People of many religions died in this attack. They along with others should be remembered.
Does not seem to be an insurmountable problem.
But i have no idea how - what- should be a suitable plaque/monument for Atheists. I am sure they (varying Atheists groups)would tear other apart on that one.
Fukme, we would need another meeting, no survivors.
 
gerryh
+3
#5
Amid the smoke and rubble at Ground Zero, rescue workers came across a twisted steel cross that became a landmark of hope for firefighters, police officers and other emergency workers.

The Cross and Resurrection at Ground Zero (external - login to view)
 
PoliticalNick
+1 / -2
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Amid the smoke and rubble at Ground Zero, rescue workers came across a twisted steel cross that became a landmark of hope for firefighters, police officers and other emergency workers.

The Cross and Resurrection at Ground Zero (external - login to view)

Blah, Blah, Bl......snore!!!

You keep on letting that bearded dude in the clouds rule your life bro!
 
Goober
+2
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

Amid the smoke and rubble at Ground Zero, rescue workers came across a twisted steel cross that became a landmark of hope for firefighters, police officers and other emergency workers.

The Cross and Resurrection at Ground Zero (external - login to view)

Jews and Muslims died in this. Would it not be reasonable to state such, a plaque, memorial for those not Christian?
 
gerryh
+8
#8  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Jews and Muslims died in this. Would it not be reasonable to state such, a plaque, memorial for those not Christian?


The "cross" was not made, it was sticking out of the rubble. It was significant to the rescue workers. It's not like a "Christian lobby group" had it built and put it on display.
 
Colpy
+2
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

The "cross" was not made, it was sticking out of the rubble. It was significant to the rescue workers. It's not like a "Christian lobby group" had it built and put it on display.

If I may....not that it would matter if a Christian lobby group put it there.......the USA is an overwhelmingly Christian nation. It is also a tolerant one, so the symbols of other major belief systems would be welcome as well, including a Muslim one......although that might be a bit sketchy....
 
Dexter Sinister
+6
#10
Really? You think Americans would welcome an Islamic symbol at 9/11's Ground Zero? I think you seriously overestimate their tolerance.
 
Tonington
+6
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

If I may....not that it would matter if a Christian lobby group put it there.......the USA is an overwhelmingly Christian nation. It is also a tolerant one, so the symbols of other major belief systems would be welcome as well, including a Muslim one......although that might be a bit sketchy....

Right...how'd it work out for that Mosque down the street? Oh yeah...not welcomed that's for sure. In the end it was still built, but it was far from open arms and welcoming that they received.
 
Dixie Cup
+1
#12
Seriously? Its crass BS is what it is. Atheists have to take a deep breath and calm down. Honestly. they're being jerks!


Whether they believe it or not, America was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and they need to respect that. Their Constitution reflects those beliefs. But even with that, I would have no issue with the various faiths of those who died being represented with symbols of their own.


Instead of bitching about the cross, how about they find their own symbol and negotiate that for the site after they provide evidence of all the atheists that were killed on the site.


JMO
 
Locutus
#13
atheists can be quite uppity.
 
Tecumsehsbones
+3
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by Dixie CupView Post

Seriously? Its crass BS is what it is. Atheists have to take a deep breath and calm down. Honestly. they're being jerks!


Whether they believe it or not, America was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and they need to respect that.

I respect genocide and slavery.

Quote:

Their Constitution reflects those beliefs.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof." U.S. Const., Amdt. I.

That is the ONLY reference to religion in the Constitution.

Quote:

But even with that, I would have no issue with the various faiths of those who died being represented with symbols of their own.

Me too. I want a rainbow flag for the gay Americans who died in the WTC on 9/11, a Mogen David for the Jews, a crescent for the Muslims, a bowl of spaghetti for the Italian Americans, a beer stein for the German Americans, a sombrero for the Mexican Americans, chopsticks for the Chinese Americans, a whisky bottle for the Irish Americans, a hoodie for the African Americans, a walking frame for the senior Americans, something pink for the gyno-Americans, and a hockey stick for the Canadian Americans. Plus symbols for the citizens of the 75 other countries who died in 9/11. Oh, and a cross with Jesus for the Caflicks, and a cross without Jesus for the Prods.

The important thing here is not to commemorate their commonality, but to split them into as many mutually hostile groups as possible.

Quote:

Instead of bitching about the cross, how about they find their own symbol and negotiate that for the site after they provide evidence of all the atheists that were killed on the site.


JMO

Actually, if you read the article in the OP, you'll see they're doing just that.

They shouldn't.
 
captain morgan
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by TecumsehsbonesView Post


Me too. I want a rainbow flag for the gay Americans who died in the WTC on 9/11, a Mogen David for the Jews, a crescent for the Muslims, a bowl of spaghetti for the Italian Americans, a beer stein for the German Americans, a sombrero for the Mexican Americans, chopsticks for the Chinese Americans, a whisky bottle for the Irish Americans, a hoodie for the African Americans, a walking frame for the senior Americans, something pink for the gyno-Americans, and a hockey stick for the Canadian Americans. Plus symbols for the citizens of the 75 other countries who died in 9/11. Oh, and a cross with Jesus for the Caflicks, and a cross without Jesus for the Prods.

From what I understand, there were a number of Al Queda personnel that were involved... .I sure hope that the Atheist lobby ensures that they have a monument of equal stature present.
 
taxslave
+3
#16
Some people simply have too much time on their hands. There are other more important things going on in the world than worrying about some religious symbol in a park.
 
lone wolf
+4
#17
Control freaks are the centre of the universe. Ask one.
 
Sal
+3
#18


It was left standing in the rubble. Leave it there and add to it with other symbols as you will...or don't. But leave it alone.
 
spaminator
+2
#19
the cross made people cross.
 
Colpy
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

Right...how'd it work out for that Mosque down the street? Oh yeah...not welcomed that's for sure. In the end it was still built, but it was far from open arms and welcoming that they received.

The mosque next door was a deliberate affront.........not a memorial to innocents that died.

Big difference in my book.
 
captain morgan
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

The mosque next door was a deliberate affront.........not a memorial to innocents that died.

Big difference in my book.


If memory serves correct, wasn't there a legal challenge that resulted in the mosque being approved?
 
Tecumsehsbones
+3
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

The mosque next door was a deliberate affront.........not a memorial to innocents that died.

Big difference in my book.

It wasn't next door. It wasn't even in sight. And it wasn't a mosque. It was a community centre with a chapel.

But, enough. I'm throwing tennis balls at a tank here. You're convinced, and no amount of facts will change that.
 
petros
#23
Boogieman! You get the lights, I'll grab the shotgun.
 
Tecumsehsbones
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Boogieman! You get the lights, I'll grab the shotgun.

That's for zombies.
 
petros
#25
What would an atheist memorial look like?
 
Tecumsehsbones
+1
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

What would an atheist memorial look like?

There's already an atheist memorial at the WTC site. Since there's no god, any empty space is an atheist memorial.
 
petros
+1
#27
Should we worry about radical atheists flying jets into towers in the name of nothing anytime soon?
 
Tecumsehsbones
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Should we worry about radical atheists flying jets into towers in the name of nothing anytime soon?

Atheist response to a sneeze: "May nothing do nothing in response to your sneeze."
 
DaSleeper
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

What would an atheist memorial look like?

Because of the date of the atheist national holiday.....my suggestion wouldn't be approved.......
 
Tonington
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by ColpyView Post

The mosque next door was a deliberate affront.........not a memorial to innocents that died.

Big difference in my book.

Deliberate affront? Right, having multi-faith dialogues is sooo offensive. It couldn't possibly have a place in a world where religion is clashing daily, near a place where it was brought to US soil

So the US allegedly is only tolerant to other religions' memorials, that still doesn't sound very tolerant or welcoming. I'm not surprised then that the atheists are as militant as they are, all things considered.
 

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