An interesting scenario.

[JLM]

This in currently in the local news. A newly licensed driver in British Columbia has to be accompanied by an adult with a valid driver's license for a short period following being initially issued a restricted driver's license. Recently a young fellow with such a license was stopped by police. He was accompanied by his grandfather who failed a breathalyser test. He was penalyzed the same as if he were the driver and as a result he is vehemently contesting the penalties and has hired a lawyer. I have my opinion as to the validity of his protests. What are yours? Got this off the T.V. but have seen nothing in print so far.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

This in currently in the local news. A newly licensed driver in British Columbia has to be accompanied by an adult with a valid driver's license for a short period following being initially issued a restricted driver's license. Recently a young fellow with such a license was stopped by police. He was accompanied by his grandfather who failed a breathalyser test. He was penalyzed the same as if he were the driver and as a result he is vehemently contesting the penalties and has hired a lawyer. I have my opinion as to the validity of his protests. What are yours? Got this off the T.V. but have seen nothing in print so far.

Either the law explicitly states, or it clearly implies, that the licensed adult must be supervising the learner. As such, sleeping in the back seat or being over the mark doesn't qualify. The granddrunk may win, though, depending on how the law is phrased.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

This in currently in the local news. A newly licensed driver in British Columbia has to be accompanied by an adult with a valid driver's license for a short period following being initially issued a restricted driver's license. Recently a young fellow with such a license was stopped by police. He was accompanied by his grandfather who failed a breathalyser test. He was penalyzed the same as if he were the driver and as a result he is vehemently contesting the penalties and has hired a lawyer. I have my opinion as to the validity of his protests. What are yours? Got this off the T.V. but have seen nothing in print so far.

He should be penalized as driving without an adult present not DUI. The grandfather can be possibliy ticketed as GUI.

 

[Spade]

The grandfather should be charged. He breached the conditions of his grandson's licence. A responsible driver muct accompany the new licencee. Inebriated, the grandfather is no longer acting responsibly.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The grandfather should be charged. He breached the conditions of his grandson's licence. A responsible driver muct accompany the new licencee. Inebriated, the grandfather is no longer acting responsibly.

This part of the OP. . .

He was penalyzed the same as if he were the driver

makes me think it was the grandfather who was ticketed.

 

[JLM]

The grandfather should be charged. He breached the conditions of his grandson's licence. A responsible driver muct accompany the new licencee. Inebriated, the grandfather is no longer acting responsibly.

Ahh, that's my opinion precisely! The adult is obviously there in a supervisory capacity not a someone for the kid to chat with.

He should be penalized as driving without an adult present not DUI. The grandfather can be possibliy ticketed as GUI.

The grandfather was charged with DUI.

This part of the OP. . .



makes me think it was the grandfather who was ticketed.

Yep!

 

[Spade]

This part of the OP. . .



makes me think it was the grandfather who was ticketed.

Of course the grandfather was charged. My post is in support of that action.

 

[PoliticalNick]

Having recently done some commercial driver training on some new hires I can tell you I was 100% responsible for that truck. I may not be behind the wheel but I am the 'legal' driver. It only makes sense that if gramps is in a supervisory role as the legal driver he is bound by laws covering drivers.

 

[JLM]

Having recently done some commercial driver training on some new hires I can tell you I was 100% responsible for that truck. I may not be behind the wheel but I am the 'legal' driver. It only makes sense that if gramps is in a supervisory role as the legal driver he is bound by laws covering drivers.

Hey, Nick- I think you are smarter than "Grandpa". - What really amazed me was "Grandpa" had the audacity to tell the whole wide world. He says he has high blood pressure and these penalties are making it worse.

Ah, here we go...............................Grandfather has car seized after riding drunk while grandson drove

 

[karrie]

This in currently in the local news. A newly licensed driver in British Columbia has to be accompanied by an adult with a valid driver's license for a short period following being initially issued a restricted driver's license. Recently a young fellow with such a license was stopped by police. He was accompanied by his grandfather who failed a breathalyser test. He was penalyzed the same as if he were the driver and as a result he is vehemently contesting the penalties and has hired a lawyer. I have my opinion as to the validity of his protests. What are yours? Got this off the T.V. but have seen nothing in print so far.

In my opinion, being a drunk supervisor to a learner should be equivalent to a DUI, as they have not proven any skill to operate a motor vehicle. But if someone has gotten their license, they have proven that they can. Thus, you should not be considered the driver at that point. I think having a penalty for it would be appropriate, but not a drunk driving charge.

 

[JLM]

In my opinion, being a drunk supervisor to a learner should be equivalent to a DUI, as they have not proven any skill to operate a motor vehicle. But if someone has gotten their license, they have proven that they can. Thus, you should not be considered the driver at that point. I think having a penalty for it would be appropriate, but not a drunk driving charge.

Ooooooooh I was a little remiss, Karrie, I should have said "learner's permit".

 

[karrie]

A need for sober reflection

And apparently I'm right.... the law even says they had no right to punish grandpa.

Ooooooooh I was a little remiss, Karrie, I should have said "learner's permit".

In the article I just posted, they call it learner's permit in one place, and graduated licensing in another. Do you know for sure which it was?

 

[petros]

He was in restricted control of a motor vehicle. If the restrictions says " qualified passenger must not be under the influence of alcohol or drugs" he knowingly blew that restriction as the person in control of the motor vehicle.

 

[karrie]

He was in restricted control of a motor vehicle. If the restrictions says " qualified passenger must not be under the influence of alcohol or drugs" he knowingly blew that restriction as the person in control of the motor vehicle.

Excerpts from the article I pulled on the issue....

The B.C. superintendent of motor vehicles says he was unable to correct the wrongful punishment...the superintendent admits that none of what has happened to 64-year-old Paul Norman of Salmon Arm was sanctioned by law......

Police can demand "a driver" provide a breath sample on an approved screening device under the federal Criminal Code - but that law does not allow them to make such a demand on a vehicle passenger

"There are no legislative requirements for the (graduated licence) supervisors to be sober," MacLeod confirmed. "However the responsibility of supervising a new driver is a serious one and one that government would strongly recommend should not be done while affected by alcohol or drugs."

A leading critic ...."For the (breath) demand to be made, you must be in care and control of the vehicle - seated in the driver seat, behind the wheel or driving the vehicle," he added.

"When they make the demand pursuant to the Criminal Code ... it must be made to someone who is a driver or who has care and control. He clearly was not the driver. And the Motor Vehicle Act only permits an immediate roadside prohibition to go to the driver."

The government said Friday that Norman could file an appeal under the exceptional circumstances provision of the law.





















Read more: A need for sober reflection

 

[taxslave]

This part of the OP. . .



makes me think it was the grandfather who was ticketed.

It was. Watched this on the news a few nights ago. Seems the law is not clear on this but cops have the right to steal your car whenever they feel like it with no recourse through the courts.
Somewhat related:The motorcyclist in Victoria that videoed himself going 200 or so km was declared not guilty because the prosecution could not prove he was the driver. Problem is his bike has already been siezed and sold under the criminal forefiture act.

 

[JLM]

A need for sober reflection

And apparently I'm right.... the law even says they had no right to punish grandpa.




In the article I just posted, they call it learner's permit in one place, and graduated licensing in another. Do you know for sure which it was?

I know there are "loopholes" in the way many laws are written, but at the same time we should be able to determine common sense should prevail. Why would a normal person think that a mature adult (over 25) be required to accompany an inexperienced driver? To be there to entertain the kid with jokes so he doesn't get bored? Common sense would tell me the purpose of him being there is to take corrective action should the kid have a difficulty. You can't do that unless you are sober. -

 

[karrie]

I know there are "loopholes" in the way many laws are written, but at the same time we should be able to determine common sense should prevail. Why would a normal person think that a mature adult (over 25) be required to accompany an inexperienced driver? To be there to entertain the kid with jokes so he doesn't get bored? Common sense would tell me the purpose of him being there is to take corrective action should the kid have a difficulty. You can't do that unless you are sober. -

You can't actually take corrective action in any reasonable fashion. You're there to be a level head and make sure they don't jerk around (speed, load the car up with friends, etc.). And really, the article doesn't make it sound like grandpa was failing at that, or the kid would have been ticketed as the driver. Being over the limit doesn't mean grandpa was bombed out of his tree. He also hasn't sought to fight any of the legal ramifications except for the driver training. Up until that he was happily paying his fines, putting up with his suspension, and dealing with having his car impounded, without a peep.

 

[JLM]

You can't actually take corrective action in any reasonable fashion. You're there to be a level head and make sure they don't jerk around (speed, load the car up with friends, etc.). And really, the article doesn't make it sound like grandpa was failing at that, or the kid would have been ticketed as the driver. Being over the limit doesn't mean grandpa was bombed out of his tree. He also hasn't sought to fight any of the legal ramifications except for the driver training. Up until that he was happily paying his fines, putting up with his suspension, and dealing with having his car impounded, without a peep.

O.K. Karrie, I'll yield to your wisdom.

It was. Watched this on the news a few nights ago. Seems the law is not clear on this but cops have the right to steal your car whenever they feel like it with no recourse through the courts.
Somewhat related:The motorcyclist in Victoria that videoed himself going 200 or so km was declared not guilty because the prosecution could not prove he was the driver. Problem is his bike has already been siezed and sold under the criminal forefiture act.

\

That's funny, so if he wasn't the driver what was he doing allowing someone so stupid to drive it? I don't believe the bike was reported stolen, so what other assumption can one make.

 

[SLM]

A need for sober reflection

And apparently I'm right.... the law even says they had no right to punish grandpa.

Read that article and it got me to thinking about our graduated licensing program. I thought for certain in Ontario there were restrictions on alcohol consumption for the supervising driver and I was correct;

Ontario G1 License Requirements and Restrictions

What I find so odd is that there is not the same kind of restrictions in B.C. My understanding is the whole reason the experienced driver is required to remain sober is in case they need to take control of the vehicle.

 

[JLM]

Read that article and it got me to thinking about our graduated licensing program. I thought for certain in Ontario there were restrictions on alcohol consumption for the supervising driver and I was correct;

Ontario G1 License Requirements and Restrictions

What I find so odd is that there is not the same kind of restrictions in B.C. My understanding is the whole reason the experienced driver is required to remain sober is in case they need to take control of the vehicle.

That would make sense. -