Royal Bank not very Canadian

[tay]

Dozens of employees at Canada’s largest bank are losing their jobs to temporary foreign workers, who are in Canada to take over the work of their department.

“They are being brought in from India, and I am wondering how they got work visas,” said Dave Moreau, one of the employees affected by the move. “The new people are in our offices and we are training them to do our jobs. That adds insult to injury.”

Moreau, who works in IT systems support, said he is one of 50 employees who facilitate various transactions for RBC Investor Services in Toronto, which serves the bank’s biggest and wealthiest institutional clients.

In February, RBC told Moreau and his colleagues 45 of their jobs with the regulatory and financial applications team would be terminated at the end of April.

"There are a lot of angry people," Moreau told Go Public. "A lot those people are in their late 50s or early 60s. They are not quite ready for retirement yet, but it may be very difficult to employ them."

Moreau will get a severance package, but expects it won’t last long.

“I am going to be broke," he said. "I don’t have enough money to live on. I have some RSPs. I have very little in the pension plan at RBC … I have a wife that works part time at a very low wage.”

Another RBC staffer, who didn’t want to be named, said it’s devastating.

“It’s horrible to be in this situation,” the employee said. “The bank is doing this while making billions of dollars in record profits and they don’t think about the impact on us. We are like fleas on an elephant.”

The foreign workers who are taking over the RBC work in Toronto are employed by a multinational outsourcing firm from India – iGATE Corp. – which has a contract with the bank to provide IT services.

The two companies have been working closely since 2005. There is an "RBC Offshore Development Centre" in the iGATE facility in Bangalore.

RBC spokesperson Rina Cortese told Go Public several foreign workers from iGATE will be working in the bank’s Toronto offices until 2015. By then, she said, most of the work will be transferred abroad, but a few of the foreigners will remain indefinitely.
Displacement against rules

However, it is against federal rules for any company to bring foreign workers into Canada temporarily if it will put citizens out of work.

However, the bank refused to answer repeated questions about the type of work visas the iGATE employees have or how they were approved, given the job losses involved.

“We do not comment on specific supplier relationships,” Cortese said.

Moreau called the situation "a mass exodus. It’s the first time that they’ve taken this many people and terminated their jobs. I would like to know how this happened. If it’s possible I would like to see it stopped.”


RBC replaces Canadian staff with foreign workers - British Columbia - CBC News

 

[petros]

Wal*Mart is hiring.

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

They should do what most companies do and just lay them off and move their jobs overseas. As long as that is allowed, the companies will continue to do it.

 

[captain morgan]

They should do what most companies do and just lay them off and move their jobs overseas. As long as that is allowed, the companies will continue to do it.

Why shouldn't they?

They are doing the identical thing as their customer base when they shop at WalMart and ignore those companies that support North American made products

 

[petros]

Why shouldn't they?

They are doing the identical thing as their customer base when they shop at WalMart and ignore those companies that support North American made products

Like Mexican TVs, clothing, fruit, vegetables and brake pads? They need to plant more mandarin orange trees.

 

[Machjo]

Dozens of employees at Canada’s largest bank are losing their jobs to temporary foreign workers, who are in Canada to take over the work of their department.

“They are being brought in from India, and I am wondering how they got work visas,” said Dave Moreau, one of the employees affected by the move. “The new people are in our offices and we are training them to do our jobs. That adds insult to injury.”

Moreau, who works in IT systems support, said he is one of 50 employees who facilitate various transactions for RBC Investor Services in Toronto, which serves the bank’s biggest and wealthiest institutional clients.

In February, RBC told Moreau and his colleagues 45 of their jobs with the regulatory and financial applications team would be terminated at the end of April.

"There are a lot of angry people," Moreau told Go Public. "A lot those people are in their late 50s or early 60s. They are not quite ready for retirement yet, but it may be very difficult to employ them."

Moreau will get a severance package, but expects it won’t last long.

“I am going to be broke," he said. "I don’t have enough money to live on. I have some RSPs. I have very little in the pension plan at RBC … I have a wife that works part time at a very low wage.”

Another RBC staffer, who didn’t want to be named, said it’s devastating.

“It’s horrible to be in this situation,” the employee said. “The bank is doing this while making billions of dollars in record profits and they don’t think about the impact on us. We are like fleas on an elephant.”

The foreign workers who are taking over the RBC work in Toronto are employed by a multinational outsourcing firm from India – iGATE Corp. – which has a contract with the bank to provide IT services.

The two companies have been working closely since 2005. There is an "RBC Offshore Development Centre" in the iGATE facility in Bangalore.

RBC spokesperson Rina Cortese told Go Public several foreign workers from iGATE will be working in the bank’s Toronto offices until 2015. By then, she said, most of the work will be transferred abroad, but a few of the foreigners will remain indefinitely.
Displacement against rules

However, it is against federal rules for any company to bring foreign workers into Canada temporarily if it will put citizens out of work.

However, the bank refused to answer repeated questions about the type of work visas the iGATE employees have or how they were approved, given the job losses involved.

“We do not comment on specific supplier relationships,” Cortese said.

Moreau called the situation "a mass exodus. It’s the first time that they’ve taken this many people and terminated their jobs. I would like to know how this happened. If it’s possible I would like to see it stopped.”


RBC replaces Canadian staff with foreign workers - British Columbia - CBC News

You mean they're not hiring pure-bloods? Oh my! They should no better than to hire the best qualified for the job. They're supposed to stick to their ingroup. Goddy gee wiz batman.

 

[PoliticalNick]

I was just about to post a thread on this. It would appear that now the minister is investigating, as he should. Where I have a big issue is that the people they are bringing in are not to fill an acute need and obviously have NO skills or training. It would appear to me that the entire goal of this endeavor is to get rid of those that are at the top of their pay scale and replace them with minimum-wage foreigners.

Minister responds
As a result of Go Public’s inquiries, the office of the minister of Human Resources and Skills Development Canada — the federal office that approved iGATE’s plans to bring in foreign workers — issued a statement late Saturday.

"We have recently learned of allegations that RBC could be replacing Canadian workers by contracting with iGate, which is filling some of the roles with temporary foreign workers. If true, this situation is unacceptable.

"The purpose of the Temporary Foreign Worker Program is to fill acute labour needs when Canadians are not available for the work required. It was never intended as a means to bring in temporary foreign workers in order to replace already-employed Canadian workers.

"I have instructed my department to work with Citizenship and Immigration Canada to determine the next steps."

 

[Machjo]

I was just about to post a thread on this. It would appear that now the minister is investigating, as he should. Where I have a big issue is that the people they are bringing in are not to fill an acute need and obviously have NO skills or training. It would appear to me that the entire goal of this endeavor is to get rid of those that are at the top of their pay scale and replace them with minimum-wage foreigners.

You don't like the free market?

After the FTA, many northern companies moved to Mexico only to move back once they realized how expensive it was to train the staff. This can happen only to a degree, and remember that many Canadians are probably profitably employed in india and elsewhere in teh world. I realise harper seems to view working abroad as being treason, but I don't. I do believe in reciprocity though.

 

[PoliticalNick]

You don't like the free market?

After the FTA, many northern companies moved to Mexico only to move back once they realized how expensive it was to train the staff. This can happen only to a degree, and remember that many Canadians are probably profitably employed in india and elsewhere in teh world. I realise harper seems to view working abroad as being treason, but I don't. I do believe in reciprocity though.

I believe if we have highly educated & highly trained people who can contribute to other countries then let them go work there. I also believe if other countries have highly trained & educated people to contribute to Canada then let them work here. What I don't believe is that cheap, unskilled labour should be imported to replace Canadians so a corporation can save a few bucks. There is a cost to doing business and in Canada that cost should include hiring Canadians even if they cost more.

 

[captain morgan]

I believe if we have highly educated & highly trained people who can contribute to other countries then let them go work there. I also believe if other countries have highly trained & educated people to contribute to Canada then let them work here. What I don't believe is that cheap, unskilled labour should be imported to replace Canadians so a corporation can save a few bucks. There is a cost to doing business and in Canada that cost should include hiring Canadians even if they cost more.

It sounded to me like the positions that were replaced are IT. That would mean that this is highly skilled white collar positions.

The bank is doing exactly what Canadians do every day when they support the Walmarts of the world in driving for the cheapest prices they can get... If it's OK for the average Joe to do this, why is it wrong for a corporate entity to do the same?

 

[Machjo]

I believe if we have highly educated & highly trained people who can contribute to other countries then let them go work there. I also believe if other countries have highly trained & educated people to contribute to Canada then let them work here. What I don't believe is that cheap, unskilled labour should be imported to replace Canadians so a corporation can save a few bucks. There is a cost to doing business and in Canada that cost should include hiring Canadians even if they cost more.

I disagree. Why should unskilled Canadians be given a special 'my-sh!t-don't-stink' privilege over someone else begause of an accident of birth?

Yes, I can agree with us paying higher taxes, and generous funding for universal compulsory public education and generous funding for skills training for the unemployed, which would serve as a kind of subsidy ot sorts to help them get back into the workforce. I do not believe in discrimination based on race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, nor even nationality (that last one being perfectly legal in most if not all countries, the last bastion of legal prejudice?).

It sounded to me like the positions that were replaced are IT. That would mean that this is highly skilled white collar positions.

The bank is doing exactly what Canadians do every day when they support the Walmarts of the world in driving for the cheapest prices they can get... If it's OK for the average Joe to do this, why is it wrong for a corporate entity to do the same?

Also, if we reject illegitimate discrimination based on gender, race, religion, etc., then why nationality?

 

[Sal]

I disagree. Why should unskilled Canadians be given a special 'my-sh!t-don't-stink' privilege over someone else begause of an accident of birth?

You need to go back and read the article.

These are not unskilled Canadians being given a special privilege over someone else because of accident of birth. They are Canadians currently employed by the RBC who are going to be losing their current jobs. They are TRAINING these people to replace them. These people will go back to their home country and do the jobs over there. They are taking Canadian jobs.

I do not believe in discrimination based on race, gender, religion, sexual orientation, nor even nationality (that last one being perfectly legal in most if not all countries, the last bastion of legal prejudice?).

Sure sounds like you don't support your fellow Canadians in maintaining their currently livelihood. In fact it sounds like you support outsourcing.

Wait until your job gets outsourced then see how much you support outsourcing.

 

[Machjo]

You need to go back and read the article.

These are not unskilled Canadians being given a special privilege over someone else because of accident of birth. They are Canadians currently employed by the RBC who are going to be losing their current jobs. They are TRAINING these people to replace them. These people will go back to their home country and do the jobs over there. They are taking Canadian jobs.

Sure sounds like you don't support your fellow Canadians in maintaining their currently livelihood. In fact it sounds like you support outsourcing.

Wait until your job gets outsourced then see how much you support outsourcing.

I don't support my fellow Canadians any more than I support any particular race, gender, religious community, etc. in the marketplace.

Of course I don't mind paying taxes (and might even be willing to pay more) to provide education for the unemployed, but I don't believe in unfair discrimination based on accident of birth, be it racial, gender-based, religious, or even national.

 

[Sal]

I don't support my fellow Canadians any more than I support any particular race, gender, religious community, etc. in the marketplace.

Of course I don't mind paying taxes (and might even be willing to pay more) to provide education for the unemployed, but I don't believe in unfair discrimination based on accident of birth, be it racial, gender-based, religious, or even national.

so you think it is perfectly fine if you go into work tomorrow and they introduce you to a new person from India, tell you to train them and tell you your job is done in a month and goes home with the person you are training...that's okay with you?

It's called outsourcing and you are supporting it.

 

[Machjo]

Wait until your job gets outsourced then see how much you support outsourcing.

Yep, instead of bettering myself, I'll just promote others as 'foreigners', those evil foreigners out to take my job. Much easier, don't ya think. Besides, it's not like they need to feed their famiies or anything.

Again, like I said, I might even be willing to pay more taxes to provide quality skills training for the unemployed, a nice hand-up which they'll appreciate. What I'm not prepared to do is demonize others, whether based on race, gender, or even nationality, that last bastion of acceptable, or dare I say fashionable, prejudice it would seem.

so you think it is perfectly fine if you go into work tomorrow and they introduce you to a new person from India, tell you to train them and tell you your job is done in a month and goes home with the person you are training...that's okay with you?

It's called outsourcing and you are supporting it.

It would depend on my contract. I'd expect them to honour my contract and the law, and that's it.

Now, it would only be fair for those East Indians to also pay higher taxes just like the rest of us to provide me with free skills training to compensate. Then I might get an even better job than before, thanks to them.

As for 'outsorcing', what's the difference between outsourcing from town, province, or country. We're all one family in the end, if you believe that.

 

[PoliticalNick]

I don't support my fellow Canadians any more than I support any particular race, gender, religious community, etc. in the marketplace.

Then maybe you should consider leaving Canada.

The problem with this story is that the Canadians involved are already trained and employed whereas the new, foreign employees are not trained or skilled and not employed in Canada. In fact if it were not for i-gate and RBC perpetrating this scam upon Citizenship & Immigration they would not have received work visas at all.

I would imagine that the cost savings to RBC is not just in salary/wages but if most of those being let go are long time employees in their 50's then there will be a huge savings in pension and pensionable benefits.

Do not kid yourself that this is about anything but some corporate VP looking to add to the bottom line so he/she can increase their bonus at the cost of the livelihood of people who have contributed to this country for their entire lives.

 

[Sal]

Yep, instead of bettering myself, I'll just promote others as 'foreigners', those evil foreigners out to take my job. Much easier, don't ya think. Besides, it's not like they need to feed their famiies or anything.

What's with the crazy labels (evil foreigners etc.)...I think this whole post and its repercussions has zoomed right over your head. So just carry on with your equality malarkey.

Again, like I said,

yes you keep saying that...but are quite willing to give away jobs where people are already employed so your prejudice is there just focused on another group..the group that are already employed.

I might even be willing to pay more taxes to provide quality skills training for the unemployed, a nice hand-up which they'll appreciate.

yeah because someone who has worked at the bank for 30 years and is all set to retire in five would love to retrain. :roll:

What I'm not prepared to do is demonize others, whether based on race, gender, or even nationality, that last bastion of acceptable, or dare I say fashionable, prejudice it would seem.

on the contrary....your prejudice is quite evident

 

[IdRatherBeSkiing]

Why shouldn't they?

They are doing the identical thing as their customer base when they shop at WalMart and ignore those companies that support North American made products

I never offered judgement on whether they should or should not only that they should have handled it differently.

But everybody, business and consumer, almost always chooses lowest monetary cost regardless of the social cost behind it.

 

[Machjo]

Then maybe you should consider leaving Canada.

The problem with this story is that the Canadians involved are already trained and employed whereas the new, foreign employees are not trained or skilled and not employed in Canada. In fact if it were not for i-gate and RBC perpetrating this scam upon Citizenship & Immigration they would not have received work visas at all.

I would imagine that the cost savings to RBC is not just in salary/wages but if most of those being let go are long time employees in their 50's then there will be a huge savings in pension and pensionable benefits.

Do not kid yourself that this is about anything but some corporate VP looking to add to the bottom line so he/she can increase their bonus at the cost of the livelihood of people who have contributed to this country for their entire lives.

I don't know the details of their contracts, but of course if the issue is that it costs less to outsource, RBC could have offered their staff the option of moving to India before hiring the East Indians. Did they make that offer? I don't know.

Also, RBC could have shown some respect to long-time employees by shifting through attrition: start training the new team a little later, but keep the old team until they retire, and then shift.

My issue is with the way the article seems to make it an 'evil foreigners' issue. Le'ts say they were outsourcing to a different province or different city, would we have heard the same hooplah? Again, RBC could have been a little more considerate, but the article seems to be putting the accent not on that but on the fact that the one's replacing them are 'foreigners'.

I'd say Canada should just sign a free labour-movement agreement with India.

 

[PoliticalNick]

I'd say Canada should just sign a free labour-movement agreement with India.

And I would say we should rip up all free-trade agreements and NEVER enter into anything of the sort whether it be trade or labour again. Screw the rest of the world. If they want what we have (either our products & resources or our labour & marketplace) then they can pay for the privilege.