Ottawa ordered to provide all residential schools documents

Ottawa ordered to provide all residential schools documents

Machjo

#1 Top Rated PostJan 30th, 2013

Finally.

Sorry about the screw up in the thread title:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/30/pol-cp-truth-reconciliation-commission-documents.html

Ottawa ordered to provide all residential schools documents

The sad part is that getting the truth of of the government is like pulling teeth.

Last edited by Locutus; Jan 30th, 2013 at 06:17 PM..Reason: Fixed thread title

CDNBear

Re: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/30/pol-cp-truth-reconciliation-comm

Jan 30th, 2013

Sooner or late someone will be a long to tell those who lost children, lost their innocence, or lost their souls, to get over it.

This may prove to be interesting.

Machjo

Re: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/30/pol-cp-truth-reconciliation-comm

Jan 30th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

Sooner or late someone will be a long to tell those who lost children, lost their innocence, or lost their souls, to get over it.

This may prove to be interesting.

Yup. If an individual did this to a white kid, they'd all be screaming for justice. If it's done in a systematic manner by government and the churches explicitely with the intent of getting rid of the Indian Problem to 150,000 red kids with the courts and the RCMP enforcing this genocide, and suddenly they should just get over it.

Wasn't it Churchill who said something along the lines that if one person dies, it's a tragedy; if a million people die, it's statistics.

gerryh

Re: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/30/pol-cp-truth-reconciliation-comm

Jan 30th, 2013

The Commission was struck to make First Nations "think" something was being done. The government telling the Commission that they had to go through the archives themselves was an easy way to restrict the findings. Now they'll have to come up with some other way of doing it.

SLM

Re: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/30/pol-cp-truth-reconciliation-comm

Jan 30th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

Sooner or late someone will be a long to tell those who lost children, lost their innocence, or lost their souls, to get over it.

This may prove to be interesting.

It's like chumming the water. The sharks will be along eventually, lol.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh

The Commission was struck to make First Nations "think" something was being done. The government telling the Commission that they had to go through the archives themselves was an easy way to restrict the findings. Now they'll have to come up with some other way of doing it.

I think this pretty much says it all.

Quote:

The decision is anything but clear-cut," Duncan told the House of Commons during question period Wednesday. "The discussion in terms of relevant documents is left somewhat open by the judge. We believe that we've been meeting the spirit and intent [of the agreement], but if there is a slightly different interpretation we will meet the spirit and intent of the judge's decision."

Give us the archived documents has no other meaning but give us the archived documents.

I'm sure they could find some way to redact most of the info though too, that would buy lots more time.

It's time to play the waiting game and the government plays it very well.

CDNBear

Re: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/30/pol-cp-truth-reconciliation-comm

Jan 30th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

Yup. If an individual did this to a white kid, they'd all be screaming for justice.

Maybe.

There are members here who have been adamant about how Injins should just get over it.

Quote:

If it's done in a systematic manner by government and the churches explicitely with the intent of getting rid of the Indian Problem to 150,000 red kids with the courts and the RCMP enforcing this genocide, and suddenly they should just get over it.

Dude, we're talking about people that think the treaty and land claim issues should be met with F 18's.

They have a serious aversion to logic and intelligence. What makes you think compassion is something they'd hang on to?

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM

It's time to play the waiting game and the government plays it very well.

Buying time until all the possible litigants are dead.

SLM

Re: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/30/pol-cp-truth-reconciliation-comm

Jan 30th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

Buying time until all the possible litigants are dead.

Exactly. The raw emotional value of living memory plays a big role in keeping cases like this alive.

Machjo

Re: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/30/pol-cp-truth-reconciliation-comm

Jan 30th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

Buying time until all the possible litigants are dead.

Seeing that soe are only in their late 30s or at least early 40s, that could be a while.

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM

Exactly. The raw emotional value of living memory plays a big role in keeping cases like this alive.

And let's not forget intergenerational trauma.

CDNBear

Re: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/30/pol-cp-truth-reconciliation-comm

Jan 30th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM

Exactly. The raw emotional value of living memory plays a big role in keeping cases like this alive.

I think emotion and the 'payday' mentality are the worst part of these things.

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

Seeing that soe are only in their late 30s or at least early 40s, that could be a while.

You don't know the government very well.

Quote:

And let's not forget intergenerational trauma.

I have a problem with that.

I was raised by a residential school survivor. I certainly wouldn't blame him for my mistakes. He never blamed the school for his mistakes, or his achievements.

SLM

#10

Re: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/30/pol-cp-truth-reconciliation-comm

Jan 30th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

Seeing that soe are only in their late 30s or at least early 40s, that could be a while.

Have you met the government? Familiar with their work at all? Lol.

Quote:

And let's not forget intergenerational trauma.

I'm not meaning to imply that there is no impact beyond the immediate person or persons that were affected. Of course there is. But there is also no way that the grandchild feels the same drive as the grandparent to right a wrong that happened to the grandparent. They have some drive sure, but it's not as urgent or it doesn't represent a need for healing.

I had no direct involvement yet I would definitely like to see complete disclosure and acknowledgement because I think it's a horrible stain on our history. We can't keep allowing anyone to deny it any longer. Would I devote years of my life to the fight though? Probably not. I can imagine the farther removed you are from the source, the less likely you are to be willing to donate the necessary time to the fight.

Not saying it's right, just that it's human nature.

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

I think emotion and the 'payday' mentality are the worst part of these things.

I know what you mean, but the emotional component is, I think, very real as well. And a driving force.

Quote:

You don't know the government very well.

I have a problem with that.

I was raised by a residential school survivor. I certainly wouldn't blame him for my mistakes. He never blamed the school for his mistakes, or his achievements.

I can remember watching a program once and there was this guy in it, a residential school survivor. The abuse suffered at the school was the start of his abuse in life, he continue the abuse, self abuse, for many years on his own. And he talked about how he wanted to end his life, had made some attempts. You know what stopped him? What he learned as a child in the schools, that taking your own life was a sin. He couldn't do it, those lessons were a part of who he was. So in a really weird round about way, the school saved his life. Even though it was probably the root cause of his problems in the first place. He talked about being healed and at peace, at the time of the filming, but he was still really conflicted over that.

CDNBear

#11

Re: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/30/pol-cp-truth-reconciliation-comm

Jan 30th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM

I know what you mean, but the emotional component is, I think, very real as well. And a driving force.

It's an impaired driving force.

Quote:

He talked about being healed and at peace, at the time of the filming, but he was still really conflicted over that.

Sounds like Freddy Taylor.

If you ever want a one on one with an absolutely marvelous Anish artist, and residential school survivor, I'll tell where you can meet him.

SLM

#12

Re: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/30/pol-cp-truth-reconciliation-comm

Jan 30th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

It's an impaired driving force.

Mmmm, in some cases. But emotions can be useful, they can inspire us to go places that logic would dictate we don't. And sometimes that can be a good thing.

Quote:

Sounds like Freddy Taylor.

If you ever want a one on one with an absolutely marvelous Anish artist, and residential school survivor, I'll tell where you can meet him.

Cool. Wish I could remember the name of the documentary, I'd like to watch it again.

damngrumpy

#13

Re: Ottawa ordered to provide all residential schools documents

Jan 30th, 2013

I wonder what it would be like if some other society came along and suddenly
told North Americans they couldn't speak English or go to the church anymore
or wear certain clothing or give up the traditions of Christmas and they couldn't
speak their own language even amongst themselves. If that happened how
many do you think would just shrug their shoulders and say we'll get over it?
This is not about coming and conquering lands and peoples as some like to
pretend it goes back to, I believe it was King George the III when he said we had
a social duty to first nations people. Not a quote but the intent. Under his direction
he laid down the rules in perpetuity. In addition there are many who want to rid
the country of the reserves and so on for a really good reason.
The governments of the day gave the Indians the crappy lands and took the good
stuff for themselves As it turns out all those so called crappy lands have the oil,
the coal the iron ore, the natural gas and almost everything else. Now if some can
just get rid of the reserves the governments and companies can steal the rest of it.

Divine justice has a way of coming back on society doesn't it?

petros

#14

Re: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/30/pol-cp-truth-reconciliation-comm

Jan 31st, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

Yup. If an individual did this to a white kid, they'd all be screaming for justice.

If we're going to point fingers let's get down to the reality of it.

These were some of the most egotistical bucktoothed 150lb 5 foot monsters that ever walked the planet that ran Canada in 1800's to just prior my own/your lifetime before they died off.

I wouldn't have wanted to be any kid not under parental care who was Non-British at the mercy of the English "purists" that were running Canada at the time.

Race didn't matter. If you werent English you were nothing.

Canadian history is a very ugly history and grandkids of these English purists are scared sh*tless of facing the truth of the history of their people in Canada.

An example of the thinking of the era written during the same time Ukrainians were in concentration camps in Canada...It was in regards to Lebanese.

Quote:

In a 1914 letter, W.D. Scott, Superintendent of Immigration, wrote: “None of the races belong to those likely to assimilate with the Canadian people; none of them are of a class whose presence could reasonably be expected to improve the status of the Canadian race, whether considered from a political, social, moral, mental, physical or economic standpoint.”
http://esask.uregina.ca/entry/lebanese_community.html

Canadian race? WTF is the Canadian race?

Why is a rascist PM on the 100 dollar bill?

Last edited by Ron in Regina; Jan 31st, 2013 at 10:33 PM..Reason: Pete...Yikes!

Nuggler

#15

Re: http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/story/2013/01/30/pol-cp-truth-reconciliation-comm

Jan 31st, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

Sooner or late someone will be a long to tell those who lost children, lost their innocence, or lost their souls, to get over it.

This may prove to be interesting.

Hasn't happened here yet, Bear. Probably won't.

Anyone with half a brain realizes a terrible wrong was done to the Aboriginal kids and their families.
----------------------------------------

"I wouldn't have wanted to be any kid not under parental care who was Non-British at the mercy of the English "purists" that were running Canada at the time. "

Race didn't matter. If you werent English you were nothing.""

Nawsty Bawstads them Brits.

"Sawgant, take one man out of each rank and 'ang him" Rest of you lot, back to work. Let's 'ave no more of "please could I 'ave some watah".

And that's what they did to their own...................*British Army discipline circa 1800 - Nathanial Sproggate pp 312*

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