Non-Status Indian

Non-Status Indian

JamesBondo

#1Jan 20th, 2013

Someone said that a recent decision has affirmed that it is unlawful to sign away the aboriginal rights of your children?

I am wondering what that means?

For example, if a great grandmother was metis, but married to a non-indian. Currently, the great grandchildren are 1/8th metis but probably aren't recognized as anything. They certainly aren't recognized by any of the bands. Additionally, the government hasn't even recognized them as non-status indians.

Will any of the recent decisions allow them to identify themselves with their history, possibly regain some of the more fundamental of aboriginal rights such as fishing without having to buy a fishing license from the gov?

Last edited by JamesBondo; Jan 20th, 2013 at 01:00 PM..

Liberalman

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

I was looking at my family tree and there is some aboriginal there I think and when I was young when I smoked up I said peace so it must have been a peace pipe so now I need to find out where the government office is to get the money.

gerryh

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondo

Someone said that a recent decision has affirmed that it is unlawful to sign away the aboriginal rights of your children?

I am wondering what that means?

For example, if a great grandmother was metis, but married to a non-indian. Currently, the great grandchildren are 1/8th metis but probably aren't recognized as anything. They certainly aren't recognized by any of the bands. Additionally, the government hasn't even recognized them as non-status indians.

Will any of the recent decisions allow them to identify themselves with their history, possibly regain some of the more fundamental of aboriginal rights such as fishing without having to buy a fishing license from the gov?

I doubt it would effect the example you have given. I have more Indian in me then your example and when my sister tried to reassert her status she was basically told to piss up a rope.

CDNBear

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondo

Someone said that a recent decision has affirmed that it is unlawful to sign away the aboriginal rights of your children?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

At one time you could sign away your status as First Nations for an education, land, British/Canadian citizenship, or to serve in the public sector.

But that practice ended years ago.

Quote:

For example, if a great grandmother was metis, but married to a non-indian. Currently, the great grandchildren are 1/8th metis but probably aren't recognized as anything.

They would be recognized as Metis.

And Metis is capitalized btw.

Quote:

They certainly aren't recognized by any of the bands.

The fact that Bands is also capitalized aside, I can not recall any Bands that do not recognize the Metis.

Oh there are purists out there that claim if you aren't Red River Metis, you aren't Metis. But fortunately Metis means of mixed blood, so what those idiots think is irrelevant.

Quote:

Additionally, the government hasn't even recognized them as non-status indians.

See R v Powley.

Quote:

Will any of the recent decisions allow them to identify themselves with their history, possibly regain some of the more fundamental of aboriginal rights such as fishing without having to buy a fishing license from the gov?

The Metis already have harvesting rights.

Again, see R v Powley.

Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman

I was looking at my family tree and there is some aboriginal there I think and when I was young when I smoked up I said peace so it must have been a peace pipe so now I need to find out where the government office is to get the money.

When you find out can you PM me its whereabouts?

As a status Native, I'd love to get my hands on all this free money you people keep talking about.

Last edited by CDNBear; Jan 20th, 2013 at 01:46 PM..

gerryh

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

Oh there are purists out there that claim if you aren't Red River Metis, you aren't Metis. But fortunately Metis means of mixed blood, so what those idiots think is irrelevant.

My Grandmother was "full" native. She married a white man, so my mother was 1/2. My Great Grandmother "left" (read "kicked off")the reserve after she left her abusive husband. There are "purists" that would say that even my Mother is not Native or Metis.

We won't get into the "bad blood" my Grandmother had for first Nations which she passed on to her daughter.

CDNBear

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh

My Grandmother was "full" native. She married a white man, so my mother was 1/2. My Great Grandmother "left" (read "kicked off")the reserve after she left her abusive husband. There are "purists" that would say that even my Mother is not Native or Metis.

Idiots abound.

But if your bloodline is documented, and meets the legal standard, it really doesn't matter what they think.

The Old Medic

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

Métis are not "Non-Status Indians". They are a separate and distinct aboriginal people, and are recognized as such in the Charter.

Instead of spreading around all of the rumored "benefits" of being either a "Native" or "Indian", or of being "Métis", how about actually checking out what is required to be recognized for that status. And actually check into what benefits, if any, that people so designated actually receive.

I am Métis, and I am very proud of that ancestry and culture. But, even if I were to live in Canada, the only right that I would have, in some Provinces, is the right to "harvest". I would have no monetary benefits of any type. There are no Reserves for the Métis, or anything even roughly equiivalent. We receive no government medical care, no scholarships, nothing at all.

The ONLY right that has been "granted", by a decision of the Supreme Court of Canada, is the right to harvest (hunt and fish) without a permit. BUT, most Provinces do not recognize the Métis as having such rights, so they have to take each Province through the entire Court system, over and over and over again.

There are also disputes about who is, and who is not, Métis. The Supreme Court defined us as a unique people, of mixed ancestry, with a language and culture that is unique. So, not every
"mixed blood" person is Métis.

Instead of being so certain of all of the "benefits" of being an aboriginal person in Canada, it would help a lot if you would actually study the subject before you sound off about something you know almost nothing about.

gerryh

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

Idiots abound.

But if your bloodline is documented, and meets the legal standard, it really doesn't matter what they think.

not documented. no birth certificate for my great grandmother or my grandmother.

Quote: Originally Posted by The Old Medic

Métis are not "Non-Status Indians". They are a separate and distinct aboriginal people, and are recognized as such in the Charter.
Instead of spreading around all of the rumored "benefits" of being either a "Native" or "Indian", or of being "Métis", how about actually checking out what is required to be recognized for that status. And actually check into what benefits, if any, that people so designated actually receive.
I am Métis, and I am very proud of that ancestry and culture. But, even if I were to live in Canada, the only right that I would have, in some Provinces, is the right to "harvest". I would have no monetary benefits of any type. There are no Reserves for the Métis, or anything even roughly equiivalent. We receive no government medical care, no scholarships, nothing at all.
The ONLY right that has been "granted", by a decision of the Supreme Court of Canada, is the right to harvest (hunt and fish) without a permit. BUT, most Provinces do not recognize the Métis as having such rights, so they have to take each Province through the entire Court system, over and over and over again.
There are also disputes about who is, and who is not, Métis. The Supreme Court defined us as a...
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

CDNBear

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by The Old Medic

There are also disputes about who is, and who is not, Métis. The Supreme Court defined us as a unique people, of mixed ancestry, with a language and culture that is unique. So, not every "mixed blood" person is Métis.

Speaking of "it would help if you would actually study the subject before you sound off about something you know almost nothing about", you really should take your own advice.

The SCoC made no such ruling.

Although each Provinces Metis Councils have their own set of application, the clinch pin is, you have to be of mixed blood, period, full stop. You don't have to be able to trace your ancestry to the Red River or any other silly crap that you have claimed and been proven wrong about in the past.

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh

not documented. no birth certificate for my great grandmother or my grandmother.

Crappy. Can you find where they were born. Sometimes even geographical records are enough.

Goober

#10

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

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Speaking of "it would help if you would actually study the subject before you sound off about something you know almost nothing about", you really should take your own advice.

The SCoC made no such ruling.

Although each Provinces Metis Councils have their own set of application, the clinch pin is, you have to be of mixed blood, period, full stop. You don't have to be able to trace your ancestry to the Red River or any other silly crap that you have claimed and been proven wrong about in the past.

Crappy. Can you find where they were born. Sometimes even geographical records are enough.

The SCoC has accepted oral history as evidence.People have long memories. Perhaps tracing it back at the band would help. Don't know. Just saying.

CDNBear

#11

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by gerryh

You can say that again.

Remember what I was saying about "idiots abound".

Quote: Originally Posted by Goober

The SCoC has accepted oral history as evidence.

It has to be a pretty strong oral record, with a history.

Not something that just crawled out of the wood work last week.

DaSleeper

#12 Top Rated Post

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

Idiots abound.

But if your bloodline is documented, and meets the legal standard, it really doesn't matter what they think.

According to the documentation from Maniwaki, I think I sent you a while back, I have an ancestry similar to Gerry's, my Grandmother on my mother's side being Native, but like we discussed, it would cost me $150 to get my card.......but to what purpouse ....
Being over 65, I can already fish without a license, I don't live on a Reserve so I would still have to pay sales tax on any vehicle I buy.....so there really is no percentage for me to dish out $150.
If anyone can inform me on a way I could get at least a good pay-back I'd go for it

L Gilbert

#13

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

The last I heard about status vs non-status was that my wife can be status because her father is aboriginal, but our kids can't because the aboriginal in our family is female. F'n archaic, draconian, and sexist crap, IMO. Not sure if anything has changed about that.

Well, go figure: I just found out it changed in 1985: Assembly of First Nations*-* FAQ about Native Status

CDNBear

#14

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper

According to the documentation from Maniwaki, I think I sent you a while back, I have an ancestry similar to Gerry's, my Grandmother on my mother's side being Native, but like we discussed, it would cost me $150 to get my card.......but to what purpouse ....
Being over 65, I can already fish without a license, I don't live on a Reserve so I would still have to pay sales tax on any vehicle I buy.....so there really is no percentage for me to dish out $150.

It won't even help you out with hunting or fishing.

I can hunt and fish in two treaty zones, sans licenses. But as soon as I leave those zones, I have to have a tag for any game I may be transporting.

And that would apply to you too. Your treaty zone would be in Quebec.

Quote:

If anyone can inform me on a way I could get at least a good pay-back I'd go for it

Easy there skippy, I asked first.

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

The last I heard about status vs non-status was that my wife can be status because her father is aboriginal, but our kids can't because the aboriginal in our family is female. F'n archaic, draconian, and sexist crap, IMO. Not sure if anything has changed about that.

Well, go figure: I just found out it changed in 1985: Assembly of First Nations*-* FAQ about Native Status

LOL, you beat me to it.

It's retroactive to 1951 I believe.

DaSleeper

#15

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

The last I heard about status vs non-status was that my wife can be status because her father is aboriginal, but our kids can't because the aboriginal in our family is female. F'n archaic, draconian, and sexist crap, IMO. Not sure if anything has changed about that.

Well, go figure: I just found out it changed in 1985: Assembly of First Nations*-* FAQ about Native Status

Here"s more on this.......
Federal Court grants rights to Métis, non-status Indians - Politics - CBC News

gerryh

#16

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

It's retroactive to 1951 I believe.

which would be the reason my sis was told to piss up a rope.

JamesBondo

#17

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 20th, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by L Gilbert

The last I heard about status vs non-status was that my wife can be status because her father is aboriginal, but our kids can't because the aboriginal in our family is female. F'n archaic, draconian, and sexist crap, IMO. Not sure if anything has changed about that.

Well, go figure: I just found out it changed in 1985: Assembly of First Nations*-* FAQ about Native Status

So who is making that decision to deny them the aboriginal status? the Band council or the Canadian gov? I am wondering if no Band will recognize them, if the Canadian gov would still recognize them as non-status.

However, the grandchildren that I am speaking of a just Canadians, no one recognizes them as status or non-status. They wouldn't even know which Band to speak with. If all they wanted was non-status recognition, wouldn't they contact the Canadian gov directly?

JamesBondo

#18

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 21st, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeper

Here"s more on this.......
Federal Court grants rights to Métis, non-status Indians - Politics - CBC News

I want to know the definition of non-status once the smoke clears on this one.

DaSleeper

#19

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 22nd, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondo

So who is making that decision to deny them the aboriginal status? the Band council or the Canadian gov? I am wondering if no Band will recognize them, if the Canadian gov would still recognize them as non-status.

However, the grandchildren that I am speaking of a just Canadians, no one recognizes them as status or non-status. They wouldn't even know which Band to speak with. If all they wanted was non-status recognition, wouldn't they contact the Canadian gov directly?

Just do what my nephew did.......contact the band office closest to where my mother and grandmother were born.. and make inquiries there.

Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondo

I want to know the definition of non-status once the smoke clears on this one.

Look up the Indian Act and read through it...here...Indian Act
I believe I found out why some Natives around here do not pay GST on purchases in the local stores....
Those that I have seen exempt from paying, are all temporarily relocated people from Attawapiskat and get the same dispensation as if they were "On Reserve".

L Gilbert

#20

Re: Non-Status Indian

Jan 22nd, 2013

Quote: Originally Posted by JamesBondo

So who is making that decision to deny them the aboriginal status? the Band council or the Canadian gov?

Well, it wasn't bands that came up with the Indian Act.

Quote:

I am wondering if no Band will recognize them, if the Canadian gov would still recognize them as non-status.

I think the gov't would determine that with the individual's lineage.

Quote:

However, the grandchildren that I am speaking of a just Canadians, no one recognizes them as status or non-status. They wouldn't even know which Band to speak with. If all they wanted was non-status recognition, wouldn't they contact the Canadian gov directly?

I would think so.

Read All About It! Métis and Non-Status Indians Win Recognition at Federal Court « mediaINDIGENA

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