Firefighters not guilty in melee with police

petros

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Nov 21, 2008
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Saskatoon cop has snout whacked for sticking it where it doesn't belong.

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The StarPhoenix November 29, 2012​

A jam-packed Saskatoon courtroom erupted in applause as three firefighters were found not guilty of all charges in connection with an alleged brawl with police on the Broadway Bridge this summer.

Clifford Ronald Hamilton, 44, Jeffrey Adam Tysdal, 28, and Keith Anthony Walliser, 35, were each charged with assaulting and obstructing a police officer in connection with the Aug. 12 incident.

However, Const. Dylan Lisson was not acting in the lawful execution of his duties when he physically intervened in a playful fight between friends, Judge Barry Singer said in his verdict in Saskatoon provincial court Wednesday. Singer had reserved his judgment following a three-day trial that ended Nov. 21.

"Any physical contact between the firefighters and Const. Lisson (was) at Const. Lisson's instigation and he was not justified in using any force against them as he was not justified in intervening in the first place or arresting anyone," Singer said.

"He was not in the execution of his duty. All charges against all accused are dismissed."

The three firefighters were suspended from their jobs with Saskatoon Fire and Protective Services after charges were laid.

The acquittal opens the door for them to return to work, although acting fire chief Dan Paulsen didn't say whether or when that would happen.

"The ruling that's come down is very positive towards the individuals, but I really want to emphasize that we'll just make sure, that from the organization internally, we follow through with our rules and regulations," he told reporters outside court.

Police Chief Clive Weighill said he respected the judge's ruling, but that the two officers - Const. Lisson and Const. Christine Tal-loden - were doing what they're trained to do when they see people fighting.

"Our officers came upon a scene. They thought a fight was happening and they thought they had to intervene and that's what we're here to do," Weighill said. "Yes, charges were laid on that, and to gain a conviction you have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt and in that case, it wasn't proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

"In my mind, that's the end of the case. We get back to work again."

The incident started after Lisson and Talloden, on patrol in a police cruiser, saw Walliser and Hamilton go to the ground while they were play fighting on the Broadway Bridge around 2 a.m. on Aug. 12.

The officers stopped to investigate a possible assault in progress. Two other firefighters, Tysdal and David Nickel, were nearby and shouted they were all friends and that Walliser and Hamilton were play fighting. The four firefighters had been at Lydia's Pub celebrating a co-worker's birthday and Nickel was the only one of the four not intoxicated.

Lisson pushed Walliser off Hamilton. At that point, the police and civilian accounts of the circumstances diverge. Lisson said Walliser pushed him back and the violence escalated from there, with Hamilton getting in the way and trying to punch Lisson when Lisson tried to arrest Walliser for assaulting a police officer.


Hamilton said one moent he was play wrestling with Walliser and the next moment, he was on his front with the side of his face being "drilled into" the sidewalk by someone on top of him, who turned out to be Lisson.

Tysdal stepped in to come to the aid of Hamilton - his mentor - and grabbed Lisson from behind. Nickel stayed out of the fray.

Lisson testified that at the very beginning, he saw Walliser choking Hamilton and that's why he took action. However, Singer did not accept that happened for a number of reasons, including that Lisson didn't mention choking in his notes and no one else, including Talloden, saw any choking.

Because there was no choking or assault going on - and there were people yelling it was a play fight - Lisson had no reasonable grounds to physically intervene, Singer said.

Talloden's testimony was also problematic, Singer said.

"It would be unsafe to convict anyone based upon the evidence of Const. Talloden, who gave confusing and contradictory evidence that was not supported, either by her partner or any of the others who were there," Singer said.

In contrast, Singer accepted the firefighters were telling the truth.

"I believe the testimony of the accused - all of them," he said.

The firefighters are happy with the verdict, their defence lawyers said outside court. They are all anxious to return to work, Walliser's lawyer Leslie Sullivan and Tysdal's lawyer Brad Mitchell both said.

"Justice was done and four firefighters were outright believed as to what they said in court," said Morris Bodnar, who represented Hamilton.



 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Interesting.

I'll have to mention that defence the next time there's a brawl infront of the Town Dump.

"Don't worry, they're just play fighting, they're friends"

The cops will have to automatically back off.

Good call, excellent precedent, lol.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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Oddly enough, it came as no surprise to hear they were drunk.

I don't know a Fire Fighter that isn't either a coke head or a raging alcoholic or both.
 

karrie

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Jan 6, 2007
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Oddly enough, it came as no surprise to hear they were drunk.

I don't know a Fire Fighter that isn't either a coke head or a raging alcoholic or both.

Altercation with the police while out walkingand wrestling at 2 am.... it doesnt matter what they do for a living, their drunkeness was never in doubt.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Oddly enough, it came as no surprise to hear they were drunk.

I don't know a Fire Fighter that isn't either a coke head or a raging alcoholic or both.

Well I know for a fact that there are neither in our volunteer department. Can't speak for the unionized career depts.
 

Ron in Regina

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Apr 9, 2008
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Were the cops drunk? High?

Nope, but sounds like the senior officer was a big guy on the job less than
two years, and his partner was on day two as a police officer. That might
have played into things.

There was stupidity on all sides, but what happened didn't need to happen
at all from the sounds of things.
 

PoliticalNick

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Mar 8, 2011
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Oddly enough, it came as no surprise to hear they were drunk.

I don't know a Fire Fighter that isn't either a coke head or a raging alcoholic or both.

I know plenty that aren't either. Kind of d*ckhead statement trying to stereotype decent public servants in favor of a group who are proven time & time again to abuse power and lie under oath.

Lisson testified that at the very beginning, he saw Walliser choking Hamilton and that's why he took action. However, Singer did not accept that happened for a number of reasons, including that Lisson didn't mention choking in his notes and no one else, including Talloden, saw any choking.

Because there was no choking or assault going on - and there were people yelling it was a play fight - Lisson had no reasonable grounds to physically intervene, Singer said.

Talloden's testimony was also problematic, Singer said.

"It would be unsafe to convict anyone based upon the evidence of Const. Talloden, who gave confusing and contradictory evidence that was not supported, either by her partner or any of the others who were there," Singer said.

It would seem to me some serious perjury was going on (as seems to be normal from the cops) and realistically these 2 should be charged and fired. I doubt it will happen and once again a couple of PIGS will be let off instead of being held to a higher standard. It is no wonder we see so much misconduct when there are no ramifications when it happens.

Good call, excellent precedent, lol.

A precedent that says cops cannot use unnecessary force (ram someone's head into the pavement) first and ask questions later....that is a good call.
 

SLM

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Mar 5, 2011
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I know plenty that aren't either. Kind of d*ckhead statement trying to stereotype decent public servants in favor of a group who are proven time & time again to abuse power and lie under oath.



It would seem to me some serious perjury was going on (as seems to be normal from the cops) and realistically these 2 should be charged and fired. I doubt it will happen and once again a couple of PIGS will be let off instead of being held to a higher standard. It is no wonder we see so much misconduct when there are no ramifications when it happens.



A precedent that says cops cannot use unnecessary force (ram someone's head into the pavement) first and ask questions later....that is a good call.

So it's wrong to stereotype firefighters but a-ok to stereotype police officers?
 

Cannuck

Time Out
Feb 2, 2006
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Police Chief Clive Weighill said he respected the judge's ruling, but that the two officers - Const. Lisson and Const. Christine Tal-loden - were doing what they're trained to do when they see people fighting.

...but they weren't fighting. Perhaps part of their training should include determining the difference between real fights and play fights. Personally, I think it's pretty easy but given the standards used in police recruiting, you may as well go right back to basics.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

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May 28, 2007
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I think the only issue here is that they pressed charges after the 'fight' had been broken up and everybody had cooled off and sobered up.
 

PoliticalNick

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Mar 8, 2011
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So it's wrong to stereotype firefighters but a-ok to stereotype police officers?

There are quite a few good cops out there but incidents of them lying, using unnecessary force, covering-up for each other and a complete lack of real disciplinary action when they are caught makes them all suspect. It is a shame that we need to worry about the police but we do and the 'thin blue line' means we have to worry about them all.

...but they weren't fighting. Perhaps part of their training should include determining the difference between real fights and play fights. Personally, I think it's pretty easy but given the standards used in police recruiting, you may as well go right back to basics.

These days police are trained to use force and arrest people first and ask questions and lie about it later. They are given para-military training, taught to use deception and trickery and taught how to lie and create a plausible story for court.

Unfortunately they are no longer servants of the people who keep the peace but servants of the government used to control the population.