Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

JLM

#1Nov 1st, 2012

We point to the crap that is happening in third world countries and yet the way we treat people here is no better. It's high time thugs were banned from anything to do with law enforcement, security and working in prisons. In fact that is exactly where a lot of them should be but in a different capacity.
Videos show Ashley Smith was tough, but just not tough enough | Full Comment | National Post

captain morgan

+2 / -1

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

I'm guessing that Smith had a track record in her behaviour towards the guards that lead to this treatment. The prison staff don't use those mesh hoods and the like for no reason at all.

JLM

-1

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan

I'm guessing that Smith had a track record in her behaviour towards the guards that lead to this treatment. The prison staff don't use those mesh hoods and the like for no reason at all.

My guess would be that it was the prison guards that allowed the situation to escalate to this point in the first place!

captain morgan

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

I don't understand what you mean by that

EagleSmack

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Those hoods are placed when prisoners spit at guards.

JLM

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan

I don't understand what you mean by that

Surveillance videos screened publicly Wednesday at a coroner’s inquest into Ashley Smith’s prison death show the troubled teenager repeatedly tranquilized against her will, and at one point being threatened with having her face duct-taped.
That is just one example.

captain morgan

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

Surveillance videos screened publicly Wednesday at a coroner’s inquest into Ashley Smith’s prison death show the troubled teenager repeatedly tranquilized against her will, and at one point being threatened with having her face duct-taped.
That is just one example.

They did these things for a reason, I think that the mesh hoodie to prevent guards being spit upon say volumes in terms of Smith's treatment of the security personnel

Despite the actions of the security people, again, it was likely Smith's previous actions and track record that lead to the guards taking such harsh steps with her..

taxslave

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

The NP article seems very one sided. The real story is what this girl did to have so many run ins with the legal system.

SLM

#9 Top Rated Post

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

What it highlights is that the prison system is no place for those with mental illness.

JLM

-1

#10

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan

They did these things for a reason, I think that the mesh hoodie to prevent guards being spit upon say volumes in terms of Smith's treatment of the security personnel

Despite the actions of the security people, again, it was likely Smith's previous actions and track record that lead to the guards taking such harsh steps with her..

I don't buy that, Smith was a marginalized person to start with, a professional person in charge would have had the situation under control from the getgo. These guys are thugs!

captain morgan

#11

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave

The NP article seems very one sided. The real story is what this girl did to have so many run ins with the legal system.

That comment speaks volumes in terms of our society absolving people of their personal responsibilities for their individual actions

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

I don't buy that, Smith was a marginalized person to start with, a professional person in charge would have had the situation under control from the getgo. These guys are thugs!

Marginalized?.. She took the actions herself that lead to her incarceration. The original charges would see her in youth detention for 1-2 months, but her behavior increased that to over 4 years.

Ashley Smith charged over 500 times for behaviour in jail, court hears - thestar.com

Charged over 500 times...

SLM

#12

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

I don't buy that, Smith was a marginalized person to start with, a professional person in charge would have had the situation under control from the getgo. These guys are thugs!

I think the problem here is that these "thugs" are accustomed to dealing with individuals who behave in a willful destructive manner, ie someone out to make trouble for it's own sake. She may have been willful but her history (and of course hindsight is 20/20) does reveal some deep psychological issues that they were unqualified to recognize and deal with. But the administrators of the system (Corrections Canada) should have recognized it. I think the guards are the fall guys for the publics wrath, but really it needs to move up the chain.

That's my take on the whole Ashley Smith saga anyway.

JLM

#13

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave

The NP article seems very one sided. The real story is what this girl did to have so many run ins with the legal system.

One possibility is it all got started with the home environment.

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM

I think the problem here is that these "thugs" are accustomed to dealing with individuals who behave in a willful destructive manner, ie someone out to make trouble for it's own sake. She may have been willful but her history (and of course hindsight is 20/20) does reveal some deep psychological issues that they were unqualified to recognize and deal with. But the administrators of the system (Corrections Canada) should have recognized it. I think the guards are the fall guys for the publics wrath, but really it needs to move up the chain.

That's my take on the whole Ashley Smith saga anyway.

Yep, I think there is some truth in what you say. I would like to add that Corrections Canada may have been remiss either by not recruiting the right people or in not properly training the ones they recruited.

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan

Charged over 500 times...

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is the clue right there. If something doesn't work after trying it once or twice, you can bet your bottom dollar the procedure won't work unless something is changed.

taxslave

#14

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Corrections Canada is not set up to deal with serious mental problems. They deal with criminals. Unfortunately the do gooders have decided that locking up and treating people with mental problems for their own good is not PC. SO these people run around loose and might be OK when they take their meds but there is no one forcing them to.
The PC crowd that forced the closure of Riverview and turned the residents loose with no facilities to care for them should all be tossed in jail.

captain morgan

#15

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There is the clue right there. If something doesn't work after trying it once or twice, you can bet your bottom dollar the procedure won't work unless something is changed.

Unbelievable.

You're blaming the corrections system for the 500 incidents that Smith abused personnel or broke the law?

I'm curious, do you think that someone that breaks the law should be held accountable at all or is it the fault of society?

JLM

#16

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave

Corrections Canada is not set up to deal with serious mental problems. They deal with criminals. Unfortunately the do gooders have decided that locking up and treating people with mental problems for their own good is not PC. SO these people run around loose and might be OK when they take their meds but there is no one forcing them to.
The PC crowd that forced the closure of Riverview and turned the residents loose with no facilities to care for them should all be tossed in jail.

Now we are getting somewhere. The problem there is much more mental than criminal in my view. BUT from what I gather some of the staff at Riverview were a little ruthless too. (I had some relatives confined there so maybe the closure was timely before it was my turn)

IdRatherBeSkiing

#17

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by JLM

I don't buy that, Smith was a marginalized person to start with, a professional person in charge would have had the situation under control from the getgo. These guys are thugs!

Certainly they should have just politely asked her to do what was required. I am sure she would have cheerfully complied.

PoliticalNick

#18

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan

Unbelievable.

You're blaming the corrections system for the 500 incidents that Smith abused personnel or broke the law?

I'm curious, do you think that someone that breaks the law should be held accountable at all or is it the fault of society?

Just to set you straight, if she broke a law while in prison they are bound to inform the police & crown counsel and send her to court. The correctional facility charges can be anything like not making your bed to the guard's satisfaction or calling a guard a name and is processed through their own kangaroo court where another guard acts as judge.

I do not know what went on but I can tell you that there are a lot of correctional workers that should not be there. Also, they are not trained to deal with mental issues, in fact their training is similar to police where they learn to lie and use excessive force and cover-up for each other so it must all be taken with a grain of salt.

They should all be required to undergo pre-hire mental evaluations and then every year or 2.

After a thorough read of the article I can see charges against a myriad of staff including an RCMP officer. It is no wonder they fought tooth & nail to bar the videos from being seen. I would have suspicions raised at the first mention of NOT showing the tapes as it leads one to believe they have something to hide...which they obviously did.

Now I am not excusing her behavior that led her to the predicament she was in but I'm not going to excuse the staff's behavior either.

Last edited by PoliticalNick; Nov 1st, 2012 at 10:01 AM..

captain morgan

#19

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick

Just to set you straight, if she broke a law while in prison they are bound to inform the police & crown counsel and send her to court. The correctional facility charges can be anything like not making your bed to the guard's satisfaction or calling a guard a name and is processed through their own kangaroo court where another guard acts as judge.

I do not know what went on but I can tell you that there are a lot of correctional workers that should not be there. Also, they are not trained to deal with mental issues, in fact their training is similar to police where they learn to lie and use excessive force and cover-up for each other so it must all be taken with a grain of salt.

They should all be required to undergo pre-hire mental evaluations and then every year or 2.

She was 'charged' over 500 times while in custody. Being 'charged' incorporates the formal complaint being issued with a court appearance at teh appropriate time. I don't believe for one minute that the 'charges' would include refusal to eat all of one's vegetables or not making your bed.

Clearly her track record of behavior justified her being heavily restrained during any transportation event, mesh mask to prevent spitting and the numerous accounts of kicking and biting security personnel. In my opinion, and in this case, it is Smith who is the instigator and the major problem in this equation.

What I find interesting is that the MSM has strategically omitted the inclusion of her ongoing record of violence against the prison guards and elected to paint this girl as an innocent victim. Ultimately, Smith was sentenced to about 1 or 2 months in youth detention, but her sociopathic behavior alongside her lengthy record of assaulting guards extended her sentence into years and bridged youth into adulthood.

The prison system is far from perfect and the security personnel aren't perfect either, but blaming everyone else but the actual perpetrator is regressive to the point that it takes 10 steps back for every step forward

The Old Medic

#20

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Portions of these videos were shown. However, the only reliable evidence would be to see the ENTIRE film, so you can see what happened BEFORE the actions this attorney is objecting to.

petros

#21

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by slm

what it highlights is that the prison system is no place for those with mental illness.

jackpot!

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave

Corrections Canada is not set up to deal with serious mental problems. They deal with criminals. .

That would be a wrong. The funding for it is 90% of what it used to be. Now you know why there is so many free range lunatics on the streets.

PoliticalNick

#22

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan

She was 'charged' over 500 times while in custody. Being 'charged' incorporates the formal complaint being issued with a court appearance at teh appropriate time. I don't believe for one minute that the 'charges' would include refusal to eat all of one's vegetables or not making your bed.

Then you need to learn about the corrections system. There are many things you can be charged with inside the facility that are not breaking any laws and are dealt with in their private kangaroo court. Basically anytime a guard tells you to do something, no matter what, your refusal will result in a correctional charge. Calling a screw a d*ck or an a$$hole will also get you charged. Like I said, if she broke a law, physically assaulted a guard, got caught with drugs etc, they HAVE to refer it to the RCMP & Crown for proper charges so unless she was dragged into court 500 times they are correctional charges.

Quote:

The prison system is far from perfect and the security personnel aren't perfect either, but blaming everyone else but the actual perpetrator is regressive to the point that it takes 10 steps back for every step forward

I am not blaming them for her actions and I'm not blaming her for their actions. Without even watching any video the description of the incident on the plane shows they were antagonizing her and using unnecessary force and being cruel while laughing about it. They should all be collecting welfare and seeking other employment right now. No question about it.

JLM

-1

#23

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiing

Certainly they should have just politely asked her to do what was required. I am sure she would have cheerfully complied.

It's often got more to do with who is doing the asking than what is being asked. I had one f*****g boss to be put politely (the guy was actually a f**king A$$hole) the chemistry wasn't compatible, it didn't matter much what his "marching orders" were!

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick

Then you need to learn about the corrections system. There are many things you can be charged with inside the facility that are not breaking any laws and are dealt with in their private kangaroo court. Basically anytime a guard tells you to do something, no matter what, your refusal will result in a correctional charge. Calling a screw a d*ck or an a$$hole will also get you charged. Like I said, if she broke a law, physically assaulted a guard, got caught with drugs etc, they HAVE to refer it to the RCMP & Crown for proper charges so unless she was dragged into court 500 times they are correctional charges.

I am not blaming them for her actions and I'm not blaming her for their actions. Without even watching any video the description of the incident on the plane shows they were antagonizing her and using unnecessary force and being cruel while laughing about it. They should all be collecting welfare and seeking other employment right now. No question about it.

I think you have it pegged pretty close, Nick.

petros

#24

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

500? That's it? She's a lightweight for a nutter in the regular system. If in somewhere like North Battleford, she'd be run of the mill.

captain morgan

#25

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

So, you're saying that it's OK for Smith to be charged 500+ times while in custody?

Should she be commended, maybe reduce her sentence for this stellar behavior?

petros

#26

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Yup if you stick in a nutter in a regular hoosegow, that's what you get. Ain't cutbacks grand?

captain morgan

#27

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

Yup if you stick in a nutter in a regular hoosegow, that's what you get.

Sounds good... On that note, if we're to applaud Smith's actions that lead to all those charges, maybe we ought to give the security people a raise and promotion in the event that the Court tries to charge them with any negligence.

Negligence causing death should result in a tripling or maybe quadrupling of pay, no?

Quote: Originally Posted by petros

Ain't cutbacks grand?

Too bad that the family didn't ante-up and get her in a private facility - or is that asking too much?

PoliticalNick

#28

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan

So, you're saying that it's OK for Smith to be charged 500+ times while in custody?

Should she be commended, maybe reduce her sentence for this stellar behavior?

Knowing a bit about the correctional system and their kangaroo court system I would guess that at least 75% are bogus. Maybe more. They are not trained or equipped to deal with people with disorders.

So what about the degrading and cruel treatment these video's show her receiving? Do the screws get a free pass to do these things because of her history?

captain morgan

#29

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick

Knowing a bit about the correctional system and their kangaroo court system I would guess that at least 75% are bogus. Maybe more.

Ok then.. Abolish the courts

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick

They are not trained or equipped to deal with people with disorders.

I suppose that the family could have had her placed in a private facility... But that would cost them money, right?

Easier to wash your hands of the kid and let the system deal with it.

Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNick

So what about the degrading and cruel treatment these video's show her receiving? Do the screws get a free pass to do these things because of her history?

... But Smith biting, kicking and spitting on the security folks is not degrading to those people?

Sheesh

JLM

#30

Re: Treatment of prisoner reprehensible!

Nov 1st, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan

Ok then.. Abolish the courts

I suppose that the family could have had her placed in a private facility... But that would cost them money, right?

Easier to wash your hands of the kid and let the system deal with it.

... But Smith biting, kicking and spitting on the security folks is not degrading to those people?

Sheesh

I think you hit the nail on the head where you asked if it is society's responsibility, but now when I look for the quote I can't find it.

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