Manning calls Mulcair hypocrite on environment

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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Thomas Mulcair is a hypocrite for not applying his polluter-pay principles to Quebec's hydro sector when he had the chance and now attacking Alberta's oilsands on the same subject, Reform party founder Preston Manning said Saturday in an interview on CBC's The House.

Manning said he ultimately agreed with the NDP leader when it came to forcing companies to internalize environmental costs through a cap-and-trade system or carbon levy, but the requirement must apply to all sectors of the energy business.

"I've been an advocate myself that you ought to internalize these environmental externalities, in other words, when you produce energy, you recognize that you're going to have environmental effects, you identify those environmental effects and the cost of avoiding them or mitigating and then you try to find some way to integrate that cost into the cost of the product," he said.

"The hydro companies of this country have flooded forest areas the size of Lake Ontario, so where's the reservoir tax that's the hydro equivalent of the carbon levy?"

As Quebec's sustainable-development minister in Jean Charest's Liberal government, Mulcair didn't talk about internalizing the environ-mental effects of the province's hydro operations, Manning argued.

"If you're going to preach that to the petroleum industry, how come you didn't implement that concept there?" he said.

Mulcair has come under fire for creating an East-West divide by blaming Alberta's oilsands for the so-called "Dutch disease" - artificially inflating the Canadian dollar and killing manufacturing jobs in Central Canada.

© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen
 

Machjo

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Oct 19, 2004
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But it's interesting none the less that he agrees with Mulcair.

There is another distinction to make here: oil is nonrenewable; hydro is.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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But it's interesting none the less that he agrees with Mulcair.

There is another distinction to make here: oil is nonrenewable; hydro is.
And so is the land they drowned. But for it to be renewed, you would have to remove the damns and the water.

How soon do you think that will happen?
 

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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But it's interesting none the less that he agrees with Mulcair.

There is another distinction to make here: oil is nonrenewable; hydro is.

And Hydroc can cause significant and massive environmental damages and changes- Please refer to the Three Gorges as one clear example- the Chinese have many more.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
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Then there is the deforestation from stringing thousands of kilometres of copper (super bad for environment) transmission wire across pristine wilderness to reach markets.
 

CDNBear

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Then there is the deforestation from stringing thousands of kilometres of copper (super bad for environment) transmission wire across pristine wilderness to reach markets.
Now that can grew back. Not to mention the hunting and offroading opportunities it presents.
 

CDNBear

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It can but right now it gives easy access for man (Joe average) into areas previously unreachable.
This is true. I fall into that category myself. The main reason I have a 4x is to get to places where others can't. The fishing is great, the scenery is amazing, and the sounds of nothing more than our own voices and the wildlife around us, golden!
Especially when you got the keys and combinations for every Altalink and Fortis gates on their right of ways in Alberta. *wink*
Lucky bastard!!!

I love running the power lines to the north of us. No one bugs us, but there some areas where we could use a set of keys to get past gates to some challenging looking rock technicals.
 

petros

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This is true. I fall into that category myself. The main reason I have a 4x is to get to places where others can't. The fishing is great, the scenery is amazing, and the sounds of nothing more than our own voices and the wildlife around us, golden!
Lucky bastard!!!

I love running the power lines to the north of us. No one bugs us, but there some areas where we could use a set of keys to get past gates to some challenging looking rock technicals.
You are a responsible hunter/outdoosman. I highly doubt you'll leave beer cans, chip bags and styrofoam coolers behind after cutting donuts all day on your quad.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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You are a responsible hunter/outdoosman. I highly doubt you'll leave beer cans, chip bags and styrofoam coolers behind after cutting donuts all day on your quad.
Thanks and of course. We always end up bringing back more garbage than we made.
 

Kakato

Time Out
Jun 10, 2009
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This is true. I fall into that category myself. The main reason I have a 4x is to get to places where others can't. The fishing is great, the scenery is amazing, and the sounds of nothing more than our own voices and the wildlife around us, golden!
Lucky bastard!!!

I love running the power lines to the north of us. No one bugs us, but there some areas where we could use a set of keys to get past gates to some challenging looking rock technicals.
Too bad your not in Alberta.I build,maintain most ROW's from Banff to Blairmore last 3 years when not up north.
I do get to see some awesome scenery,especially at the switching towers as their allways on top of a mountain.
My good friend and boss is prime contractor for Altalink and his daughter just got her masters in environmental science and her thesis and main study is the effect of vegetation and the critters on the ROW's.

Pretty interesting and i'll give this advice when your on a ROW,dont ever lean against a power pole and dont ever touch a guy wire.The buzzing sound you hear is electricity thats not going through the wire.It could be running down the ground wire on the pole or guy wire.Supposed dead or de energized or broken lines will still also hold a charge unless grounded,you probably know all this but lots dont,I didnt 4 years ago.
 

taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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BC Hydro pays a water tax as do the independent power producers. Unfortunately like most taxes it just goes into general revenue. Even this would be ok if the price was just added to export hydro and not domestic consumption. The way it is the citiots that use the bulk of the power have no idea of the environmental damage done for their convenience since not much of it is near the city.
 

captain morgan

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Mar 28, 2009
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Thomas Mulcair is a hypocrite

Goes without saying

Manning said he ultimately agreed with the NDP leader when it came to forcing companies to internalize environmental costs through a cap-and-trade system or carbon levy, but the requirement must apply to all sectors of the energy business.

Why just the energy sector? How about any sector, industry, company or individual that uses the energy? Why should their not be a tax on the demand-side of the equation? After all, curb the demand and the supply alters to suit.

There is another distinction to make here: oil is nonrenewable; hydro is.

Does the notion that hydro is renewable make the enviro consequences less impacting?

How do you renew a silt filled, mercury, lead and aresnic contaminated reservoir?

Apparently with more taxes.

BC Hydro pays a water tax as do the independent power producers. Unfortunately like most taxes it just goes into general revenue.

Consider that water tax akin to a oil/gas royalty (on top of corp taxes of course).

The new hydro tax would go towards programs that highlight the dangers and eco-consequences of hydro projects in general.
 

petros

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With lots of money, lots of work, and lots of time. Those elements are all found in...tailing ponds.
No amount of money, work or time could clean up a hydro reservoir. Dreging would create far too much turbidity and kill off fish stocks in the process. No matter what we do to aquire energy, it's going to have consequences in the long run.
 

Kakato

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With lots of money, lots of work, and lots of time. Those elements are all found in...tailing ponds.
Yes but where did they come from? The same place that made the tailings pond and it's called an open pit mine.You allways fill in the first pit with overburden from the second one,thats been going on since they invented strip mining.

A tailings pond is made to contain and they do a very good job of it.