Tory Charter of Rights attitude 'shocking'

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
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Tory Charter of Rights attitude 'shocking'


http://www.theprovince.com/news/Tory+Charter+attitude+shocking/6440085/story.html


"30th anniversary of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the 1982 patriation of the Constitution will largely escape the official attention of the Conservative government."

"The 1st of July, I never refused to celebrate it because John A. Macdonald was the prime minister. It would be ridiculous to say, no, he was not a Liberal."

"Chretien said his proudest personal achievement at the time was his success in convincing Trudeau to have minority-language rights enshrined in the Charter."

One of Canada's most defining moments and our Federal Conservative government does not care.


What do you think?
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Okay, I'll bite.

Further to this article, there was mention from Harper that he did not think that it should be celebrated because there is still some adversity from some parts of the country. While I can see the reason in avoiding glorification, he's an enormous hypocrite considering the amount of adversity there is to the long gun registry issue, and how much the CPC are celebrating that endeavour.
 

BruSan

Electoral Member
Jul 5, 2011
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Yep; that charter made a gimongous difference in the lives of every average Canadian alrighty! I know I sure fealt the change come over me just knowing my rights and freedoms were now guaranteed because Trudy did a little dance and brought a piece of paper back from the old sod.

Said charter overlooks and enabled the language bill 101 in 'La Belle Province' being the most racist piece of legislation, within a so-called democratic country on earth. Chretien; the chief liar, is proud of forcing the language inclusion? That's all I need to know to condemn the thing.
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You don't see conservatives running around organizing celebrations on the anniversary of NAAFTA and it arguably had far more effect, good or bad, on average joe cannuck than the charter has in the last 30 years. Liberals ran an election campaign on getting rid of the thing but subsequently embraced it so maybe Steven just doesn't want to subject them to the embarrassment.

How come Bobby Rae Days isn't squeeling? Oh that's right, he went on record as an NDPeep'r as villifying it as a 'big show over nothing' way back then, can't hardly expect him to flip-flop yet again can we?

I agree with not holding that charter 'non-event' up for special rememberance.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Rights and Freedoms? How is it that people are thrown in jail for smoking a joint if we have rights and freedoms?
A forced long gun registry that once in place made some rifles that were previously legal prohibited with out a vote and then confiscated without compensation once the Liberal government knew where most of them were. Where are the rights and freedoms in that?
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Rights and Freedoms? How is it that people are thrown in jail for smoking a joint if we have rights and freedoms?
A forced long gun registry that once in place made some rifles that were previously legal prohibited with out a vote and then confiscated without compensation once the Liberal government knew where most of them were. Where are the rights and freedoms in that?

And what about the right and freedom to walk around naked?

I mean.. the nerve of some people. Sheesh.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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One more that seems to be missing. With a little time we could come up with a long list of "rights" that are denied us by government.

I think my point was that rights eventually become a bit frivolous depending on societal norms and expectations, but are constantly evolving. No one, in this day and age, should look at a document produced in 1982 and believe that it should encompass every single freedom we can think of.

It would be more reasonable in my view, to at least be happy about the progress that was made through patriation and the real benefits the charter has brought.

Let's also keep in mind that libertarianism has its downfall, and things like drunk driving (as an example) is something that most people completely reject as an individual freedom. We need to strike the right balance between freedom and security.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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At some point, people will begin to understand that a big element of the rights issue relates to the notion that my 'rights' end where your rights begin

That is a hard to define point all right.
Somewhat depends on your view of "rights" For the most part I am more in favor of individual rights over group rights with logical restrictions of course. As MF said where is the right to be naked? Which is completely natural since we were all born that way. Obviously there are places where it is neither safe or appropriate but to completely ban nudity because of some religious fanatic's views is not acceptable.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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That is a hard to define point all right.
Somewhat depends on your view of "rights" For the most part I am more in favor of individual rights over group rights with logical restrictions of course. As MF said where is the right to be naked? Which is completely natural since we were all born that way. Obviously there are places where it is neither safe or appropriate but to completely ban nudity because of some religious fanatic's views is not acceptable.

Here's another perfect case example. If the right to be naked is offset by an enormous statistical jump in rape - then we would have to find a more granular approach to that right.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Then you keep the right to be naked and take away the right to gawk. Nobody can tell if your naked unless they are looking.
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Maybe we ought to have a Declaration of Freedoms and Obligations, seeing that the rights of one impose obligations on the other.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Maybe we ought to have a Declaration of Freedoms and Obligations, seeing that the rights of one impose obligations on the other.

Hehe.. I think we need to take a more Sartrean approach to freedom in general. We may like all of these freedoms and perks, but must understand that freedom always comes packaged with responsibility. And I don't mean the responsibility of worrying about being jailed, but rather, the natural repercussions (effect) that our actions will have on others.

It's a bit of trial and error, but we should always continue to incrementally give ourselves freedoms - look at the repercussions, and decide from that point whether we need to maintain the status quo, amplify those freedoms, or scale them back for the greater good.

In this way, both right and left can reconcile their differences and much of the bi-polar debate that goes on can actually be rectified.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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Here's another perfect case example. If the right to be naked is offset by an enormous statistical jump in rape - then we would have to find a more granular approach to that right.

You are suggesting that there MIGHT be a link between the way people dress, and the chance of them getting raped? Isn't it a big no-no to suggest such a possibility might exist? Seems to me, some Toronto police officer got into major doo-doo for saying that, which has led to the '**** walks' protests.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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You are suggesting that there MIGHT be a link between the way people dress, and the chance of them getting raped? Isn't it a big no-no to suggest such a possibility might exist? Seems to me, some Toronto police officer got into major doo-doo for saying that, which has led to the '**** walks' protests.

Did he say there "might" or that there definitely would be a causal relationship?
 

Cliffy

Standing Member
Nov 19, 2008
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Rape seems to be more prevalent in countries with strict dress and moral codes. I think the rape rate, in countries like France, where nudity is more acceptable, is probably lower than in countries like Canada and the US, where the religious are prudish about nudity. I believe rape is more a product of sexually repressive attitudes than how someone dresses.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Rape seems to be more prevalent in countries with strict dress and moral codes. I think the rape rate, in countries like France, where nudity is more acceptable, is probably lower than in countries like Canada and the US, where the religious are prudish about nudity. I believe rape is more a product of sexually repressive attitudes than how someone dresses.

Or a product of someone who just isn't getting any.
 

BruSan

Electoral Member
Jul 5, 2011
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I think the point being missed is; nothing essentially changed with the repatriation of the charter as pertains to actual "rights and freedoms" .

The single most nefarious thing it accomplished was to open the door for more court challenges and questionable legislation seemingly encouraged by the stupid charter.