What does the new NDP leader have against the Canadian Flag???


DaSleeper
#1
NDP votes against flag freedom bill


OTTAWA - One of the first acts of the NDP under newly elected leader Thomas Mulcair was to vote against a bill encouraging Canadians to "proudly display the National Flag of Canada."

The Conservatives and Liberals voted in favour of Bill C-288, the National Flag of Canada Act, sponsored by Tory MP John Carmichael and Heritage Minister James Moore. A previous version, introduced last year, included fines and up to two years in jail for condo boards or housing authorities that try to prevent Canadians from flying the flag.

The new version contains no such penalties.

The NDP faced some criticism for not displaying enough Canadian flags during last weekend's leadership convention. An NDP spokesman couldn't immediately explain the party's position......

NDP votes against flag freedom bill | Canada | News | Ottawa Sun (external - login to view)
 
Goober
+1
#2
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

NDP votes against flag freedom bill
OTTAWA - One of the first acts of the NDP under newly elected leader Thomas Mulcair was to vote against a bill encouraging Canadians to "proudly display the National Flag of Canada."
The Conservatives and Liberals voted in favour of Bill C-288, the National Flag of Canada Act, sponsored by Tory MP John Carmichael and Heritage Minister James Moore. A previous version, introduced last year, included fines and up to two years in jail for condo boards or housing authorities that try to prevent Canadians from flying the flag.
The new version contains no such penalties.
The NDP faced some criticism for not displaying enough Canadian flags during last weekend's leadership convention. An NDP spokesman couldn't immediately explain the party's position......
NDP votes against flag freedom bill | Canada | News | Ottawa Sun

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Guess they want to have this for at least one third of a new flag under an NDP Govt.
 
lone wolf
+1
#3
Maybe it's just something about flag-wavers....
 
WLDB
#4
Indeed, dumb move politically.

But really, why was the HOC wasting time on such a bill?
 
petros
+1
#5
Nationalism is dangerous.
 
Goober
+1
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDBView Post

Indeed, dumb move politically.
But really, why was the HOC wasting time on such a bill?

To give people the right to display the flag. Do you have an issue with that.
 
WLDB
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

To give people the right to display the flag. Do you have an issue with that.

They have it. I see flags flying from homes and apartment buildings nearly every day.
 
Goober
+2
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDBView Post

They have it. I see flags flying from homes and apartment buildings nearly every day.

No, not all. Various times over the years a person has displayed the flag from an apartment building and been ordered to remove it.
 
Spade
+1
#9
I believe in Edmonton a person was told he could not display one from his balcony; but, that, if I'm right, is the only one I can think of.

This issue is a contrived wedge issue. I'll trade you three Harpers for one Mulcair.
 
Goober
#10
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

I believe in Edmonton a person was told he could not display one from his balcony; but, that, if I'm right, is the only one I can think of.
This issue is a contrived wedge issue. I'll trade you three Harpers for one Mulcair.

A number of times in Canada's center of the universe.
 
DaSleeper
+1
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Guess they want to have this for at least one third of a new flag under an NDP Govt.

Thank you for posting that....

Last year at the Tottenham Bluegrass Festival where we often have visitors from the U.S......the proud Americans, would have their flag on their trailers....but....they would also have a Canadian flag flying a little higher out of respect.

I happened to stay over in that park after the festival until July the second before going on to the next festival, and on Canada Day everybody there flew the Canadian flag proudly...except one twit or rather twat because of her sex, had the fleur-de-lys flying on her trailer...
I told her..right in front of her husband in french "T'as beaucoup de front Mé t'as pas de classe"
Translation: You got balls but no class...
Her husband, from Ontario... only did this
 
Tonington
+1
#12
What's the largest Canadian flag? I can imagine if someone were to put that in a place that would block all sunlight from an apartment or home, that might be a real problem.
 
Goober
+1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

What's the largest Canadian flag? I can imagine if someone were to put that in a place that would block all sunlight from an apartment or home, that might be a real problem.

Canadian Heritage - Flag Etiquette in Canada (external - login to view)
 
BruSan
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by WLDBView Post

They have it. I see flags flying from homes and apartment buildings nearly every day.


Read the bill It said it would PREVENT condo associations and HOC's ruling against the flying of the flag.
 
B00Mer
#15
NDP proposes new Canadian Flag which promotes Canada's French heritage.. Quebec
(Canada's country within a country)


Oh Canada...

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Holly Sh!t!!! The NDP elected Thomas Mulcair as their new leader.. dam'it.

That's the biggest blunder since, I dunno... let's see.



Stéphane Dion



Lost my vote, tired of these political parties that think they need a leader from Quebec to win elections.

Let's see, is there a leader from Alberta??
 
damngrumpy
+3
#16
This shows just how shallow some groups are in Parliament, what the hell are we wasting all
this time for? Political rhetoric and nothing more. When someone moves in and buys a condo
they know the rules, and its not enough to start changing the entire charter of a housing project.
If you don't like the rules, don't buy into the development.
As for the flag thing, I am in BC and I live in an area where some wave the bloody thing and some
of us could care less. I am not that insecure that I have to wrap myself in a flag. I am very much
a Canadian and an proud Canadian, but I am not big on flag waving and nor singing national
anthems. On proper occasions its great, no problem. Before Hockey games on Canada Day
and so on but every day give me a break.
 
Tonington
+3
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by B00MerView Post

NDP proposes new Canadian Flag which promotes Canada's French heritage.. Quebec
(Canada's country within a country)


Oh Canada...

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Holly Sh!t!!! The NDP elected Thomas Mulcair as their new leader.. dam'it.

That's the biggest blunder since, I dunno... let's see.



Stéphane Dion



Lost my vote, tired of these political parties that think they need a leader from Quebec to win elections.

Let's see, is there a leader from Alberta??



Flag hating commie bastard!
 
Goober
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by B00MerView Post

NDP proposes new Canadian Flag which promotes Canada's French heritage.. Quebec
(Canada's country within a country)

Oh Canada...
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
Holly Sh!t!!! The NDP elected Thomas Mulcair as their new leader.. dam'it.
That's the biggest blunder since, I dunno... let's see.

Stéphane Dion

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Twins - OMG - Twins.
 
taxslave
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

Thank you for posting that....
Last year at the Tottenham Bluegrass Festival where we often have visitors from the U.S......the proud Americans, would have their flag on their trailers....but....they would also have a Canadian flag flying a little higher out of respect.
I happened to stay over in that park after the festival until July the second before going on to the next festival, and on Canada Day everybody there flew the Canadian flag proudly...except one twit or rather twat because of her sex, had the fleur-de-lys flying on her trailer...
I told her..right in front of her husband in french "T'as beaucoup de front Mé t'as pas de classe"
Translation: You got balls but no class...
Her husband, from Ontario... only did this

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Ever come to Vancouver Island for a bluegrass festival?
 
DaSleeper
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Ever come to Vancouver Island for a bluegrass festival?

A bit far for me, but I've gone to the other coast....P.E.I and New Brunswick.
 
mentalfloss
+3 / -2
#21
Good.

Let's not turn this place into the U.S., where we're proud of having stupid flags on our houses.
 
CDNBear
+2
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Good.

Let's not turn this place into the U.S., where we're proud of having stupid flags on our houses.

How bitterly divisive of you.

Weren't you crying about bitter divisiveness somewhere?
 
Cannuck
+2
#23
It's not often I agree with the Dippers but I do on this one. It's one of those bills that looks good on the surface. Most people don't scratch it though.



Kennedy Stewart Burnaby—Douglas, BC
Mr. Speaker, I am here today to speak to Bill C-288, An Act respecting the National Flag of Canada (external - login to view).
I read this bill with interest over the weekend and noticed there are really three key clauses in it. The first is, of course, to prohibit or stop people from preventing other folks from displaying the national flag of Canada; the second is to allow the courts to grant injunctions against violators or potential violators of the first clause; and the third, if this injunction is ignored, allows prison sentences of up to two years for violators.
I am lucky that my wife, Jeanette Ashe, is also a political scientist. She puts up with these kinds of discussions over the weekends about these important private members' issues that come forward. We thought, as we were walking by the Peace Tower last night, looking at the Canadian flag billowing over this magnificent Parliament, that the bill was extraordinary for a number of reasons and worth discussing at length. I am glad we have the time today to do so.
First, I would like to state that I am very proud of the Canadian flag. I have worn it on my backpack while hostelling through Europe. As I stayed at various hostels, people would stop me, at least they did in the 1990s, and say how happy they were to meet a Canadian, as identified by my flag. They would say that Canada was a symbol of all that was good in the world. We have very strong national health care. We welcome immigrants. We are a peacekeeping nation. We try to promote peace internationally. I think that is why I was proud to wear the flag then. I am happy that people are proud to fly it on their own houses and to wear it on their backpacks around the world.
However, as much as I do support the flag and flag-flying, I really cannot support the bill in its current form. There are number of reasons for this. The first is the cost of this bill. I think as a responsible opposition, one of the first things we have to do is to speak about costs and think about being in a deficit position. Unfortunately, the Conservatives have brought us into a deficit position. We have to think about every penny and think about spending our pennies wisely.
To throw somebody in prison for two years would cost about $200,000. It costs about $100,000 a year to put somebody in prison. That does not even include all of the prosecution fees, all the police fees, and the various other fees that are entailed. There are about 12.5 million households in Canada. At a cost of about a dollar a flag, we could actually provide a flag to every Canadian household for the cost of about 65 prosecutions. I thought, is it worth it?
I read the member for Don Valley West (external - login to view)'s speech in Hansard. Actually, my wife and I perused Hansard as I was getting ready for this speech. He brought this bill forward based on a few bits of anecdotal evidence from his constituents; for example, a renter of an apartment flew a flag and the landlord forced him to take it down. What would be the implications of this act, this extraordinary act? At the furthest extent, that landlord would be put into jail for two years. Is that really the right way to handle this type of dispute, to allow the Attorney General of Canada, through the superior courts, to press charges against a landlord and then take that person out of the economy and put him or her into jail for two years at a cost of at least $200,000? Perhaps this is not the best way to go forward. Perhaps this is a wasteful use of taxpayer money.
There has been some talk in this House about allowing this bill to get to committee to allow more discussion of these clauses. However, the bill itself is very short and there do not seem to be any clauses to discuss, other than this one to throw people in jail for two years if they somehow interfere with the flying of a flag, or may do so in the future.
There are, in public policy, really two main instruments. They are referred to as carrots and sticks. There is the stick, where people are punished and beaten into submission to elicit a certain type of behaviour, and there are carrots, where people are rewarded for undertaking particular actions. The government seems particularly prone to using the stick. I would propose that a two-year prison sentence for interfering with, removing or intending to remove someone's flag some day is a very big stick. Putting people in jail for two years does not seem to make much sense.
On the cost side of things, if we are going to spend this enormous amount of money on this type of action, it would be much better to supply flags to every household rather than throwing a very small number of people in jail. It would cost millions of dollars. Again, I point out to the member that perhaps this is one reason he should reconsider this bill.
The second reason the bill should not go forward and why I cannot support it is the thought of who pays. There would be these prosecutions ongoing, during which time the attorney general would perhaps not be pursuing other prosecutions while going after these violent flag offenders. Because it is a sentence of less than two years, it would be served in provincial prisons. This bill seems to continue the theme of the current government of not only using a stick as a policy tool but also not absorbing the costs of using that stick.
This bill could perhaps have been added to Bill C-10 (external - login to view), which we all know is the omnibus crime bill that rolled nine pieces of legislation into one larger piece of legislation. Perhaps the most famous clause in Bill C-10 (external - login to view) is the one that requires six months for six plants, that is, if someone is caught with six marijuana plants in his or her window box, plants the size of a person's little finger, the mandatory minimum sentence is six months in jail. Of course, the federal government can pass these big stick laws without any fear that it is going to drive up the federal deficit because all of these costs are offloaded to the provinces. The Quebec government was the first one to come out and say that Bill C-10 (external - login to view) would cost the province perhaps upwards of $1 billion. Now other provinces have come out and said this is offloading by the federal government.
Bills like Bill C-10 (external - login to view) are going to cost provinces billions of dollars. It is irresponsible for the Conservative government to go ahead with bills like this without any discussion with the provinces and for it to say it is going to impose punitive laws, things that most Canadians would not agree with, and that it is not going to pay for them but make provincial taxpayers do so. Bill C-288 (external - login to view) is in the same nature as Bill C-10 (external - login to view).
Another forthcoming bill that would also offload costs to provinces concerns health care. The federal government, without really having any discussions with the provinces, is looking to offload health care costs to the provinces. This is a dangerous trend.
The last point I would make is there is very little empirical evidence the bill is needed. Perhaps the member senses there might be an escalation in people tearing down flags because they will be upset with government policy. For me, the only reason people would remove a flag is they are upset with the government. Perhaps the purchase of F-35s, perhaps the government becoming an international scourge in regard to climate change, and perhaps our moving from being a peacekeeping nation to an aggressor nation are reasons that people might be angry with the government. I think maybe this is a Freudian slip type of bill, where the member is perhaps anticipating with great nervousness what damage his government is going to do this country and is trying to get ahead of that problem by introducing such a bill.
I cannot support this bill going forward.
Last edited by Cannuck; Mar 29th, 2012 at 08:32 PM..
 
EagleSmack
+4
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Good.

Let's not turn this place into the U.S., where we're proud of having stupid flags on our houses.

Once again MF... this has nothing to do with the US. This is all Canada. Too often you point our way when you have internal problems.

Your people... your flag... your problem.
 
B00Mer
+5
#25  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Good.

Let's not turn this place into the U.S., where we're proud of having stupid flags on our houses.

so you're saying one shouldn't be proud of their country by hanging a flag outside their home.,. I personally think I would Love to see more Canadian flags hanging for Canadian homes.
 
EagleSmack
+3
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by B00MerView Post

so you're saying one shouldn't be proud of their country by hanging a flag outside their home.,. I personally think I would Love to see more Canadian flags hanging for Canadian homes.

Thats the way I see it. I see Canadian flags hanging out in front of a lot of homes around here.
 
CDNBear
+3
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by EagleSmackView Post

Thats the way I see it.

As do I. I don't support the Bill mind you. I've seen apartment complexes without rules on flags, they look like the UN took a shyte.

I always fly the Canadian flag, but rotate the Six Nations, Army Command, Anishinabe and "Support our Troops", through the lower position.
 
Spade
+1
#28
You can't legislate patriotism.
 
Cannuck
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by SpadeView Post

You can't legislate patriotism.

North Korea does.
 
mentalfloss
+2
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

How bitterly divisive of you.

Weren't you crying about bitter divisiveness somewhere?

Do I always have to share your opinion or can I think for myself?

It's a shame that the nanny state has turned you into such a predictable robot.

*sigh*

I personally don't give a crap about flags in front of houses, but I don't see why anyone should be punished for it.
 

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