Planned Pipelines to Rival Keystone XL


petros
#1
Two major energy companies are planning to build new pipelines that will move as much as 850,000 barrels of crude oil a day from Canada to refineries along the Gulf Coast by mid-2014, in the latest effort to cope with a surge of oil production in North America.

The separate projects, planned by Houston-based Enterprise Products Partners LP and Enbridge Inc. of Calgary, will compete with TransCanada Corp.'s proposed Keystone XL pipeline, a massive project to move crude from the oil sands of Alberta to U.S. refineries. The Keystone project was delayed late last year after pressure from environmental groups and has become a hot-button topic in the U.S. presidential campaign, with critics of the Obama administration contending that the delay will contribute to high gasoline prices in the future.

Enbridge and Enterprise already operate the Seaway Pipeline, which used to move oil north—from Freeport, Texas, near Houston, to the massive oil storage hub in Cushing, Okla. Last year the companies said they would reverse the flow of that pipeline because a recent surge in Canadian and U.S. oil production has created an overabundance at that location. The reversal will let Seaway move as much as 150,000 barrels a day south to refiners by June 1 and 400,000 barrels a day by early next year by adding new pumping stations.

The companies said Monday they now have enough long-term commitments from new customers to also build a new 30-inch pipeline along the same right-of-way, which will add up to 450,000 barrels per day in capacity by the middle of 2014. Two smaller pipeline projects will connect the Seaway pipeline to Enterprise's storage hub along the Houston Ship Channel and to refineries near Port Arthur, Texas.

Enbridge, which is one of the largest shippers of Canadian crude oil to the U.S. with a capacity of 2.5 million barrels a day, is also going to start work on a pipeline to move oil from its existing Flanagan, Ill., pipeline hub to Cushing. The pipeline, which will run alongside an existing conduit, will have an initial capacity of 585,000 barrels per day.

The Enterprise and Enbridge projects don't face the same hurdles as Keystone XL, like a U.S. State Department review, because the cross-border portions of their pipelines are already built, experts say. But the new pipelines will require approval from the U.S. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, which oversees how much pipeline owners can charge for moving products, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which must review the engineering and environmental plans.

While environmental groups have focused most of their efforts on blocking Keystone, they still have concerns about the Flanagan and Seaway projects, said Anthony Swift, a lawyer for the Natural Resources Defense Council.

Crude from oil sands may be more corrosive than other oils and thus make pipelines more likely to leak, Mr. Swift said. An oil-sands crude leak from an Enbridge pipeline near the Kalamazoo River in Michigan in July 2010 proved to be particularly costly to clean up, he said.

"The NRDC does not oppose pipelines, but we do oppose tar sands pipelines," Mr. Swift said. "It makes sense to know how to build a pipeline safely before you proceed with this kind of infrastructure."

The U.S. Department of Transportation's Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration is studying whether Canadian oil sands are more corrosive than other crude oils, with the results expected by July 2013.

The Enterprise and Enbridge projects don't negate the need for the Keystone XL, analysts said. Canadian oil-sands production is expected to double to 3 million barrels a day between 2010 and 2020, while total Canadian crude production is expected to increase 50% to 4.2 million barrels a day over that period, according to the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers.

In the U.S., the Energy Information Administration expects oil production to increase by as much as 20% by 2020 as drillers tap into large oil shale formations that were considered uneconomical before the industry successfully paired the techniques of hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling.

Keystone and Seaway's combined capacity to move oil south from Cushing may be more than is needed in 2014 when they start up, said Rusty Braziel, an energy infrastructure analyst, but both will likely be running at full capacity soon after.
 
MHz
+1
#2
Since all those refineries are old already why not build some new ones close to the resources and then Canada is exporting final products instead of raw material for which we get pennies on the dollar compared to refined products.
 
Durry
+2
#3  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Since all those refineries are old already why not build some new ones close to the resources and then Canada is exporting final products instead of raw material for which we get pennies on the dollar compared to refined products.

Yeah, well if your so smart, why don't you go and build one. Or are you one of those dumbos that likes to tell everybody else what they should do?
I don't think you know sh^t about how the oil industry works. Best you stay with your knitting!!!
 
MHz
#4
What more do I need to know other than America has always had control of the Canadian oil and gas resources. We don't make any moves without approval of Bid Oil and that isn't a Canadian entity.
BTWGFY
 
petros
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Since all those refineries are old already why not build some new ones close to the resources and then Canada is exporting final products instead of raw material for which we get pennies on the dollar compared to refined products.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Finished products can't be piped without being diluted to the point there is more slickum than there is finished product in the line.
 
MHz
#6
Why would you even want to ship a finished product to the GOM? Finished goods would eliminate the lines altogether and finished products would be moved the same way they move them from the existing GOM refineries.
 
Liberalman
#7
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Since all those refineries are old already why not build some new ones close to the resources and then Canada is exporting final products instead of raw material for which we get pennies on the dollar compared to refined products.

Because by the time the refineries are built oil will be obsolete
 
petros
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

Because by the time the refineries are built oil will be obsolete

Oil will be obsolete in 4 years?
 
Liberalman
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

What more do I need to know other than America has always had control of the Canadian oil and gas resources. We don't make any moves without approval of Bid Oil and that isn't a Canadian entity.
BTWGFY

If Canada would have let more people in the country then we would be a power house instead of a minor irritant

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Oil will be obsolete in 4 years?

Bio fuels and better car batteries that can hold a longer charge you never know.
 
petros
#10
You want to burn food? Car batteries? You knew a Prius is in the negative for being "green" right?
 
mentalfloss
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

What more do I need to know other than America has always had control of the Canadian oil and gas resources. We don't make any moves without approval of Bid Oil and that isn't a Canadian entity.
BTWGFY

It's okay.

If Durry disagrees with you, then you should have the official stamp of approval.
 
petros
#12
More!
Enbridge Pipelines to Ease Crude Logjam: Corporate Canada - Bloomberg (external - login to view)
 
Liberalman
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

You want to burn food? Car batteries? You knew a Prius is in the negative for being "green" right?

I burn food all the time and as for a car they will produce a better electric car
 
petros
+1
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Why would you even want to ship a finished product to the GOM? Finished goods would eliminate the lines altogether and finished products would be moved the same way they move them from the existing GOM refineries.

Ask yourself. You said we need more refineries but what we really need is more upgraders.

Quote: Originally Posted by LiberalmanView Post

I burn food all the time and as for a car they will produce a better electric car

You really should learn to cook if you're burning and wasting food.

Will they? Where will the lithium come from? Fall from space?
 
MHz
+1
#15
Surprise surprise, another way to rip of Afghanistan.
www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/wo...pagewanted=all (external - login to view)

oil produces a certain amount of gasoline from crude, depending where the crude comes from it varies as to how much is produced. It is not a commodity that has a long shelf life so whatever they produce has to be used up, that would seem the be the deciding factor in what MPG we get with new vehicles. If anything these will just make up shortfalls from being able to import from OPEC or wherever.

When we ship crude south of the border we end up buying it back at a greatly reduced cost.
Perhaps Ontario should get into the refinery business, there must be enough 'space' from all the mines that have quit producing so space is not an issue and the area is already contaminated so a new facility built to 2020 specs would actually clean up the areas used.
 
Liberalman
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Ask yourself. You said we need more refineries but what we really need is more upgraders.



You really should learn to cook if you're burning and wasting food.

Will they? Where will the lithium come from? Fall from space?

Lithium come from? I am not talking about lithium I am talking about a new undiscovered material
 
Durry
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

What more do I need to know other than America has always had control of the Canadian oil and gas resources. We don't make any moves without approval of Bid Oil and that isn't a Canadian entity.
FY

So again, why don't you go and build a refinery if your so smart??? Is it because you are not very smart,,,,errrr maybe stupid???
 
MHz
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by DurryView Post

Is it because you are not very smart,,,,errrr maybe stupid???

I'm in no danger of running out of fuel, and at a decent price, now Ontario may be up the creek as their fuel will be imported from the US.
Perhaps Ontario is the dummy in the room in that they can't find the money to build the refineries and they aren't objecting to being left out in the cold, literally. Perhaps they are just banking on taking some equalization money from the West to cover their extra fuel costs. That is the way a lazy and uneducated group would handle it.
 
taxslave
+2
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Surprise surprise, another way to rip of Afghanistan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/wo...pagewanted=all
oil produces a certain amount of gasoline from crude, depending where the crude comes from it varies as to how much is produced. It is not a commodity that has a long shelf life so whatever they produce has to be used up, that would seem the be the deciding factor in what MPG we get with new vehicles. If anything these will just make up shortfalls from being able to import from OPEC or wherever.
When we ship crude south of the border we end up buying it back at a greatly reduced cost.
Perhaps Ontario should get into the refinery business, there must be enough 'space' from all the mines that have quit producing so space is not an issue and the area is already contaminated so a new facility built to 2020 specs would actually clean up the areas used.

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Good luck getting an environmental permit t build a refinery in Canada any time soon. This is where the real problem with business in Canada is. We are a country of NIMBYs, NOPEs and BANANAs.
Just down the road from my place is a major oyster growing area. Been commercially harvested for decades. In the last 15 or so years rich retirees from elsewhere have infested the area, raising property prices and protesting the building of the floats that oysters grow on because it ruins their view of the ocean. Now when people are protesting the growing of food do you really think they will permit an oil refinery?
 
BruSan
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

I'm in no danger of running out of fuel, and at a decent price, now Ontario may be up the creek as their fuel will be imported from the US.
Perhaps Ontario is the dummy in the room in that they can't find the money to build the refineries and they aren't objecting to being left out in the cold, literally. Perhaps they are just banking on taking some equalization money from the West to cover their extra fuel costs. That is the way a lazy and uneducated group would handle it.

How many years again was Ontario a net contributor to that fund? Oh that's right Ontario was the only province that from it's (equalization) commencement (72) until fiscal 09/10 didn't get anything from it.

Time you paid us back Mhz, I figure another 20 years or so oughtta do it.
Last edited by BruSan; Mar 29th, 2012 at 02:31 PM..
 
damngrumpy
#21
I am all for exploring, developing and selling oil. I am in favor of building refineries to handle
the crude. I am not in favor of shipping one gallon or litre of oil outside the country that is not
refined and priced before it leaves here.
We should not be sending jobs to a foreign nation. Remember America is not our friend, they
are a business partner and we do business with them in an orderly fashion. We expect to be
the benefactors of the development of our resource. Its time to deal with who owns what and
who will benefit from the development.
 
Kakato
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

I am all for exploring, developing and selling oil. I am in favor of building refineries to handle
the crude. I am not in favor of shipping one gallon or litre of oil outside the country that is not
refined and priced before it leaves here.
We should not be sending jobs to a foreign nation. Remember America is not our friend, they
are a business partner and we do business with them in an orderly fashion. We expect to be
the benefactors of the development of our resource. Its time to deal with who owns what and
who will benefit from the development.

Exporting jobs? We have to import workers as it is just to get it out of the ground.My boss just called,come back after easter as we have 55 wells to tie in and he said try and find 6 excavator operators and I cant do that.
I'm talking insane money too.
 
petros
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

I am all for exploring, developing and selling oil. I am in favor of building refineries to handle
the crude. I am not in favor of shipping one gallon or litre of oil outside the country that is not
refined and priced before it leaves here.
We should not be sending jobs to a foreign nation. Remember America is not our friend, they
are a business partner and we do business with them in an orderly fashion. We expect to be
the benefactors of the development of our resource. Its time to deal with who owns what and
who will benefit from the development.

We need more upgraders not refineries. We have oodles and oodles of heavy crude that is high in sulfur content and only worth around $60 a bbl. Upgraders remove the sulfur and parafin making it a far better grade giving value added turning it into a light crude worth around $100 pre bbl, a very profitable raw sulfur product to export and oodles of jobs which many think are going elsewhere . Huge money is being invested in upgrading right now in Canada and is going to continue.
 
taxslave
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

I am all for exploring, developing and selling oil. I am in favor of building refineries to handle
the crude. I am not in favor of shipping one gallon or litre of oil outside the country that is not
refined and priced before it leaves here.
We should not be sending jobs to a foreign nation. Remember America is not our friend, they
are a business partner and we do business with them in an orderly fashion. We expect to be
the benefactors of the development of our resource. Its time to deal with who owns what and
who will benefit from the development.

YEa I keep hearing the same thing about raw log exports. Until it comes down to having something industrial built in their area. Fact is we have killed the goose that laid the golden egg, especially with forestry in BC and much like manufacturing in Ontario. Between ultra high wages for low skill jobs, multiple levels of taxation and expensive permits for everything and overlapping bureaucracies demanding mountains of data for no good reason only a rich fool would invest in any kind of manufacturing in Canada when the unit cost is so much lower just by crossing an imaginary line across the continent.
 
Kakato
#25
I've been trying to find 6 excavator operators that can work around hotlines for a week now,insane money and we might have to import some Australians soon.
 

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