Planned Pipelines to Rival Keystone XL

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Two major energy companies are planning to build new pipelines that will move as much as 850,000 barrels of crude oil a day from Canada to refineries along the Gulf Coast by mid-2014, in the latest effort to cope with a surge of oil production in North America.

The separate projects, planned by Houston-based Enterprise Products Partners LP and Enbridge Inc. of Calgary, will compete with TransCanada Corp.'s proposed Keystone XL pipeline, a massive project to move crude from the oil sands of Alberta to U.S. refineries. The Keystone project was delayed late last year after pressure from environmental groups and has become a hot-button topic in the U.S. presidential campaign, with critics of the Obama administration contending that the delay will contribute to high gasoline prices in the future.

Enbridge and Enterprise already operate the Seaway Pipeline, which used to move oil north—from Freeport, Texas, near Houston, to the massive oil storage hub in Cushing, Okla. Last year the companies said they would reverse the flow of that pipeline because a recent surge in Canadian and U.S. oil production has created an overabundance at that location. The reversal will let Seaway move as much as 150,000 barrels a day south to refiners by June 1 and 400,000 barrels a day by early next year by adding new pumping stations.

The companies said Monday they now have enough long-term commitments from new customers to also build a new 30-inch pipeline along the same right-of-way, which will add up to 450,000 barrels per day in capacity by the middle of 2014. Two smaller pipeline projects will connect the Seaway pipeline to Enterprise's storage hub along the Houston Ship Channel and to refineries near Port Arthur, Texas.

Enbridge, which is one of the largest shippers of Canadian crude oil to the U.S. with a capacity of 2.5 million barrels a day, is also going to start work on a pipeline to move oil from its existing Flanagan, Ill., pipeline hub to Cushing. The pipeline, which will run alongside an existing conduit, will have an initial capacity of 585,000 barrels per day.

The Enterprise and Enbridge projects don't face the same hurdles as Keystone XL, like a U.S. State Department review, because the cross-border portions of their pipelines are already built, experts say. But the new pipelines will require approval from the U.S. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, which oversees how much pipeline owners can charge for moving products, and the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which must review the engineering and environmental plans.

While environmental groups have focused most of their efforts on blocking Keystone, they still have concerns about the Flanagan and Seaway projects, said Anthony Swift, a lawyer for the Natural Resources Defense Council.

Crude from oil sands may be more corrosive than other oils and thus make pipelines more likely to leak, Mr. Swift said. An oil-sands crude leak from an Enbridge pipeline near the Kalamazoo River in Michigan in July 2010 proved to be particularly costly to clean up, he said.

"The NRDC does not oppose pipelines, but we do oppose tar sands pipelines," Mr. Swift said. "It makes sense to know how to build a pipeline safely before you proceed with this kind of infrastructure."

The U.S. Department of Transportation's Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration is studying whether Canadian oil sands are more corrosive than other crude oils, with the results expected by July 2013.

The Enterprise and Enbridge projects don't negate the need for the Keystone XL, analysts said. Canadian oil-sands production is expected to double to 3 million barrels a day between 2010 and 2020, while total Canadian crude production is expected to increase 50% to 4.2 million barrels a day over that period, according to the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers.

In the U.S., the Energy Information Administration expects oil production to increase by as much as 20% by 2020 as drillers tap into large oil shale formations that were considered uneconomical before the industry successfully paired the techniques of hydraulic fracturing and horizontal drilling.

Keystone and Seaway's combined capacity to move oil south from Cushing may be more than is needed in 2014 when they start up, said Rusty Braziel, an energy infrastructure analyst, but both will likely be running at full capacity soon after.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Since all those refineries are old already why not build some new ones close to the resources and then Canada is exporting final products instead of raw material for which we get pennies on the dollar compared to refined products.
 

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
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Since all those refineries are old already why not build some new ones close to the resources and then Canada is exporting final products instead of raw material for which we get pennies on the dollar compared to refined products.

Yeah, well if your so smart, why don't you go and build one. Or are you one of those dumbos that likes to tell everybody else what they should do?
I don't think you know sh^t about how the oil industry works. Best you stay with your knitting!!!
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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What more do I need to know other than America has always had control of the Canadian oil and gas resources. We don't make any moves without approval of Bid Oil and that isn't a Canadian entity.
BTWGFY
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Since all those refineries are old already why not build some new ones close to the resources and then Canada is exporting final products instead of raw material for which we get pennies on the dollar compared to refined products.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Finished products can't be piped without being diluted to the point there is more slickum than there is finished product in the line.
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Why would you even want to ship a finished product to the GOM? Finished goods would eliminate the lines altogether and finished products would be moved the same way they move them from the existing GOM refineries.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
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Since all those refineries are old already why not build some new ones close to the resources and then Canada is exporting final products instead of raw material for which we get pennies on the dollar compared to refined products.

Because by the time the refineries are built oil will be obsolete
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
48
Toronto
What more do I need to know other than America has always had control of the Canadian oil and gas resources. We don't make any moves without approval of Bid Oil and that isn't a Canadian entity.
BTWGFY

If Canada would have let more people in the country then we would be a power house instead of a minor irritant

Oil will be obsolete in 4 years?

Bio fuels and better car batteries that can hold a longer charge you never know.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
39,778
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What more do I need to know other than America has always had control of the Canadian oil and gas resources. We don't make any moves without approval of Bid Oil and that isn't a Canadian entity.
BTWGFY

It's okay.

If Durry disagrees with you, then you should have the official stamp of approval.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Why would you even want to ship a finished product to the GOM? Finished goods would eliminate the lines altogether and finished products would be moved the same way they move them from the existing GOM refineries.
Ask yourself. You said we need more refineries but what we really need is more upgraders.

I burn food all the time and as for a car they will produce a better electric car

You really should learn to cook if you're burning and wasting food.

Will they? Where will the lithium come from? Fall from space?
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Surprise surprise, another way to rip of Afghanistan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

oil produces a certain amount of gasoline from crude, depending where the crude comes from it varies as to how much is produced. It is not a commodity that has a long shelf life so whatever they produce has to be used up, that would seem the be the deciding factor in what MPG we get with new vehicles. If anything these will just make up shortfalls from being able to import from OPEC or wherever.

When we ship crude south of the border we end up buying it back at a greatly reduced cost.
Perhaps Ontario should get into the refinery business, there must be enough 'space' from all the mines that have quit producing so space is not an issue and the area is already contaminated so a new facility built to 2020 specs would actually clean up the areas used.
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
5,623
35
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Toronto
Ask yourself. You said we need more refineries but what we really need is more upgraders.



You really should learn to cook if you're burning and wasting food.

Will they? Where will the lithium come from? Fall from space?

Lithium come from? I am not talking about lithium I am talking about a new undiscovered material
 

Durry

House Member
May 18, 2010
4,709
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What more do I need to know other than America has always had control of the Canadian oil and gas resources. We don't make any moves without approval of Bid Oil and that isn't a Canadian entity.
FY
So again, why don't you go and build a refinery if your so smart??? Is it because you are not very smart,,,,errrr maybe stupid???
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Is it because you are not very smart,,,,errrr maybe stupid???
I'm in no danger of running out of fuel, and at a decent price, now Ontario may be up the creek as their fuel will be imported from the US.
Perhaps Ontario is the dummy in the room in that they can't find the money to build the refineries and they aren't objecting to being left out in the cold, literally. Perhaps they are just banking on taking some equalization money from the West to cover their extra fuel costs. That is the way a lazy and uneducated group would handle it.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Surprise surprise, another way to rip of Afghanistan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all
oil produces a certain amount of gasoline from crude, depending where the crude comes from it varies as to how much is produced. It is not a commodity that has a long shelf life so whatever they produce has to be used up, that would seem the be the deciding factor in what MPG we get with new vehicles. If anything these will just make up shortfalls from being able to import from OPEC or wherever.
When we ship crude south of the border we end up buying it back at a greatly reduced cost.
Perhaps Ontario should get into the refinery business, there must be enough 'space' from all the mines that have quit producing so space is not an issue and the area is already contaminated so a new facility built to 2020 specs would actually clean up the areas used.
Good luck getting an environmental permit t build a refinery in Canada any time soon. This is where the real problem with business in Canada is. We are a country of NIMBYs, NOPEs and BANANAs.
Just down the road from my place is a major oyster growing area. Been commercially harvested for decades. In the last 15 or so years rich retirees from elsewhere have infested the area, raising property prices and protesting the building of the floats that oysters grow on because it ruins their view of the ocean. Now when people are protesting the growing of food do you really think they will permit an oil refinery?
 

BruSan

Electoral Member
Jul 5, 2011
416
0
16
I'm in no danger of running out of fuel, and at a decent price, now Ontario may be up the creek as their fuel will be imported from the US.
Perhaps Ontario is the dummy in the room in that they can't find the money to build the refineries and they aren't objecting to being left out in the cold, literally. Perhaps they are just banking on taking some equalization money from the West to cover their extra fuel costs. That is the way a lazy and uneducated group would handle it.

How many years again was Ontario a net contributor to that fund? Oh that's right Ontario was the only province that from it's (equalization) commencement (72) until fiscal 09/10 didn't get anything from it.

Time you paid us back Mhz, I figure another 20 years or so oughtta do it.
 
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