British Columbia debt near $60 billion.


JLM
#1
Yesterday there was reminders that we need another holiday. It seems there are more pressing matters at hand, with our provincial debt close to $60 billion ($15,000 for every man woman and child) . At what point do we as individuals start taking some responsibility for this. Should we lay off asking for more and do more for ourselves. Is it our own greed that has got us to this point? How much of it is our own stupidity (getting lost in the bush because we don't tell people where we are going or taking a map or G.P.S.), participating in extreme sports (like couch surfing) or just plain gluttony and laziness. Has the time come to quit blaming "Government" for everything, while we fail to pick up a pen or the phone to let them know how we feel? Any ideas?

B.C. budget 2012: 'Status quo' won
 
petros
#2
60 Billion? Jesus Christ!
 
Machjo
+1
#3
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Yesterday there was reminders that we need another holiday. It seems there are more pressing matters at hand, with our provincial debt close to $60 billion ($15,000 for every man woman and child) . At what point do we as individuals start taking some responsibility for this. Should we lay off asking for more and do more for ourselves. Is it our own greed that has got us to this point? How much of it is our own stupidity (getting lost in the bush because we don't tell people where we are going or taking a map or G.P.S.), participating in extreme sports (like couch surfing) or just plain gluttony and laziness. Has the time come to quit blaming "Government" for everything, while we fail to pick up a pen or the phone to let them know how we feel? Any ideas?

B.C. budget 2012: 'Status quo' won

Require mandatory insurance for some extreme sports? I'm just brainstorming, but this might help a little.

More user-pay taxation could help too, like gas tax for example. You drive on the road, you pay for the road.
 
skookumchuck
+3
#4  Top Rated Post
As long as we allow politicians to buy votes then blame the other party. What the hell do they think happened to Greece and several other countries?
Don't blame the kids for being spoiled when you were the one who gave them everything until your money ran out.
 
captain morgan
+1
#5
Hey, here's a thought... Maybe BC should look into generating revenues from operating LNG and bitumen exporting facilities on their North coast.

Hell, they could probably even make a bunch of cash from their natural gas to boot!
 
JLM
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

60 Billion? Jesus Christ!

That belongs in the praying thread (but it won't help)

Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Require mandatory insurance for some extreme sports? I'm just brainstorming, but this might help a little.

More user-pay taxation could help too, like gas tax for example. You drive on the road, you pay for the road.

That has already happened. 4 or 5 cent/litre carbon tax, 3.5 cent/litre road construction tax.
 
grumpydigger
-1
#7
How could this be possible,we've been told by this Liberal government that they are the only ones who are competent to handle our money. we've been told by Kevin falcon and Gordon Campbell and now Christy Clark that if the socialist hordes were ever elected our finances would be a mess...LOL so they gave themselves all raises and goldplated retirement plans.

And the funny thing is,the Liberal government still tries to blame the NDP for British Columbia's financial mess

And the mastermind, behind all this destruction is sitting in England being treated like damn royalty...thank you Gordo
 
Highball
#8
Look at California. They have almost that much in annual Bond Debt payments. And they are still spending money down here. There is a big difference. BC has a vast wealth in resources. California has so many Environmental regulations that thousands of acres of timber are just wasting away. The water issues are now critical and they want to spend another $90 billion to construct a High Speed rail corridor that about 50% of the taxpayers will never be able to use but all with be required to pay for it. KALEEFORNIA got raped by the movie actor Faux Governor Arnold.
 
Machjo
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by HighballView Post

Look at California. They have almost that much in annual Bond Debt payments. And they are still spending money down here. There is a big difference. BC has a vast wealth in resources. California has so many Environmental regulations that thousands of acres of timber are just wasting away. The water issues are now critical and they want to spend another $90 billion to construct a High Speed rail corridor that about 50% of the taxpayers will never be able to use but all with be required to pay for it. KALEEFORNIA got raped by the movie actor Faux Governor Arnold.

Resources are not the only concern. Yes, BC has many resources, but it does not have a large population to exploit them, and thus also a small tax base. Resources help indeed, but they're not the be all and end all.
 
damngrumpy
#10
Yes sixty billion and a great portion of it happened during Gordon Campbell's term in office.
Yes the New Democrats added to the debt don't deny that, but since WAC Bennett so has
every other government Vander Zalm, Bill Bennett and then the NDP. Gordon Campbell
came along and things went to hell in a hand basket.
He gave his richest friends two billion in tax breaks. We never recovered as we had to borrow
money to pay the bills and the interest on debt alone drove the deficit up. Then the convention
center, a project worth around three hundred plus million went to over a billion. The Olympic
Games saw millions of dollars in debt carefully plugged into all kinds of expense closets but its
still there.
The stadium roof built to improve the stadium across the street from a proposed casino didn't
help the price ballooned to over six hundred million. These are mere examples of a much bigger
problem. That in a moment. The. current situation is they banked on having the HST which had
both good and bad points. The HST was negotiated with the Federal Government in a cloak of
secrecy. Gordon Campbell took the blame but Snidely Whiplash aka Harper, was equally
involved as a leader. They were deceptive and people became angry, and now of course we have
lost the revenue source and we get to pay the money back.
The real problem for the government is the contracts they have in private public partnerships.
It is a cost plus formula that first made a showing after WWII. It didn't work then and it won't work
now, and here is why. Instead of a firm contract price the company can recover their cost plus
receive a five percent profit. The more cost the more profit in real terms I know there are safeguards
but those safeguards mean nothing. Remember the administration fees I mentioned above in this
thread? That is where it all get deposited. We have all kinds of projects that are cost plus.
The Kelowna bridge was one hundred eighty seven million dollars. The real cost with a maintenance
agreement for thirty years is something like five hundred million dollars and so on.
The finances were also not helped during the recession when the commodity prices collapsed.
Governments revenues have been down for some time. unemployment has bee up and the
economy has not rebounded either. This government has made a bigger mess than the NDP ever
did and these are only a few of the reasons we are in trouble and why the present Liberal/Conservative
coalition will not win the next election either.
 
L Gilbert
#11
Considering that each and every time the Dippers got in, they doubled the provincial debt and the last time they raised taxes which resulted in companies and residents moving out; I'd say, yes, at least part of our financial woes have been due to the Dippers. But the other gov'ts we've had since WAC haven't exactly been all that great either. For the life of me I can't understand why AB can hum along happily (for the most part) without taxing people as much as BC does, manages to spend more on healthcare, sends more than any other province to Ottawa for equalistioon and stuff, etc. I think the AB gov't is simply a lot more efficient.
 
Goober
#12
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Considering that each and every time the Dippers got in, they doubled the provincial debt and the last time they raised taxes which resulted in companies and residents moving out; I'd say, yes, at least part of our financial woes have been due to the Dippers. But the other gov'ts we've had since WAC haven't exactly been all that great either. For the life of me I can't understand why AB can hum along happily (for the most part) without taxing people as much as BC does, manages to spend more on healthcare, sends more than any other province to Ottawa for equalistioon and stuff, etc. I think the AB gov't is simply a lot more efficient.

And the rainy day fund has almost been spent on covering deficits for the past 3 or 4 years.
 
JLM
+1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by grumpydiggerView Post

And the funny thing is,the Liberal government still tries to blame the NDP for British Columbia's financial mess

There is a dedicated thread for jokes that would be more appropriate for this post. Maybe some people have forgotten all about the $100 million that Lizzy Cull misplaced, or the surplus budget that Lizzy extolled at election time only to have a deficit budget immerge three days later. And then there was Glenny's $600 million spent on Fast Cats which we were able to recover 2 cents on the dollar.
Actually maybe I'll start a dedicated joke thread just for N.D.P. jokes- no use putting a damper on other joke threads.

Here is some wisdom by Bill Cosby, that may give a clue to part of this problem

Bill Cosby "I'm 74 and Tired" (Born July 12th. 1937)















"I'm 74 and Tired" Worth reading.....


This should be required reading for every man, woman and child in Jamaica,








the UK , United States of America , Canada , Australia and New Zealand and





to all the world...

"I'm 74 and I'm Tired"

I'm 74
Except for brief period in the 50's when I was doing my National





Service, I've worked hardsince I was 17. Except for some some serious





health challenges, I put in 50-hour weeks, and didn't call in sick in nearly





40 years. I made a reasonable salary, but I didn't inherit my job or my





income, and I worked to get where I am. Given the economy, it looks as





though retirement was a bad idea, and I'm tired. Very tired.

I'm tiredof being told that I have to "spread the wealth" to people who





don't have my work ethic. I'm tired of being told the government will take the money
I earned, by force if necessary, and give it to people too lazy to earn it.


I'm tiredof being told that Islam is a "Religion of Peace," when every day I





can read dozens of stories of Muslim men killing their sisters, wives and





daughters for their family "honor"; of Muslims rioting over some slight





offense; of Muslims murdering Christian and Jews because they aren't





"believers"; of Muslims burning schools for girls; of Muslims stoning





teenage rape victims to death for "adultery"; of Muslims mutilating the





genitals of little girls; all in the name of Allah, because the Qur'an and





Shari'a law tells them to.

I'm tiredof being told that out of "tolerance for other cultures" we must let





Saudi Arabia and other Arab countries use our oil money to fund mosques





and madrassa Islamic schools to preach hate in Australia , New Zealand ,





UK, America and Canada , while no one from these countries are allowed to





fund a church, synagogue or religious school in Saudi Arabia or any other





Arab country to teach love and tolerance..

I'm tiredof being told I must lower my living standard to fight global





warming, which no one is allowed to debate.

I'm tiredof being told that drug addicts have a disease, and I must help





support and treat them, and pay for the damage they do. Did a giant germ





rush out of a dark alley, grab them, and stuff white powder up their noses





or stick a needle in their arm while they tried to fight it off?

I'm tiredof hearing wealthy athletes, entertainers and politicians of all





parties talking about innocent mistakes, stupid mistakes or youthful





mistakes, when we all know they think their only mistake was getting





caught. I'm tired of people with a sense of entitlement, rich or poor.

I'm really tiredof people who don't take responsibility for their lives and





actions. I'm tired of hearing them blame the government, or discrimination





or big-whatever for their problems.

I'm also tired
and fed up with seeing young men and women in their teens and





early 20's be-deck them selves in tattoos and face studs, thereby making





themselves un-employable and claiming money from the Government..

Yes, I'm damn tired.But I'm also glad to be 74.. Because, mostly, I'm not





going to have to see the world these people are making. I'm just sorry for





my granddaughter and her children. Thank God I'm on the way out and not





on the way in.


There is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us






sends it on!

This is your chance to make a difference.












" I'm 74 and I'm tired.



Don?t you be too tired to forward this!





























































 
Cliffy
+1
#14
What a lode of old fart crap. Did the young turn this beautiful garden planet into a garbage heap? Did the young spend the future of seven generations out from under their feet? Did the young leave a mountain of dept that the young for generations to come will never see the end of? Sorry but what we are seeing is a generation with no hope and no future, expressing their frustration at generations of old farts who stole their future. We created an unsustainable economic system bent on bankrupting the planet andwe sit around and whine about the youth who see what we have done and feel powerless to do anything about the shyte hole we created.
 
taxslave
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Require mandatory insurance for some extreme sports? I'm just brainstorming, but this might help a little.

More user-pay taxation could help too, like gas tax for example. You drive on the road, you pay for the road.

We already pay a hefty gas tax for driving. Unfortunately we also pay a hefty gas tax to subsidize public transit for those that don't drive. We could do without a lot of expensive bureaucrats. There are several levels of government and some quasi government bodies that have taxing authority but only one level of taxpayer to foot the bill. The one that I find most ridiculous is parks. There are at least 4 different levels of government with parks in their mandate, all with their own highly and over manned bureaucracy. That does not include school playgrounds either.
 
Kreskin
#16
How can this be, we still have the HST?
 
taxslave
+2
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Considering that each and every time the Dippers got in, they doubled the provincial debt and the last time they raised taxes which resulted in companies and residents moving out; I'd say, yes, at least part of our financial woes have been due to the Dippers. But the other gov'ts we've had since WAC haven't exactly been all that great either. For the life of me I can't understand why AB can hum along happily (for the most part) without taxing people as much as BC does, manages to spend more on healthcare, sends more than any other province to Ottawa for equalistioon and stuff, etc. I think the AB gov't is simply a lot more efficient.

Simple. They don't have all the social programs we got stuck with and there is an entrepreneurial spirit even among hourly employees. People in Alberta for the most part have a pride in making things happen. Meanwhile B.C. gets all the free loaders from the rest of the country that complain about and protest every single job creation project. Having had 10 years of dipper mismanagement didn't help either. There are thousands of government employees that thrive on red tape which costs money and curbs investment. You almost need an environmental assessment and a hand full of permits just to fart. And someone like cliffy will even complain about that.
 
damngrumpy
#18
The fast cat ferries actually provided some serious benefit to the Province of BC.
Remember we had a considerable number of welders who were able to obtain
first quality skills with aluminum welding that has proved invaluable. The taxes
these people paid on earnings and the company contracts for additional work
after the cats has brought a lot of money and expertise to BC and the latest round
of contracts demonstrates that.
The Cats were sold cheap mostly for political reason actually and some of those
boats were used by private interests from America in BC waters for a time then
sold overseas by others for profit.
The present government has made the most mess of the deficit and debt though.
In addition people here do pay more taxes and they receive benefits for those taxes
I do not regret that I pay more as we have a lot going for us in BC. The problem is
we have a dishonest government in power or should I say making believe they are
in power. They have lost the confidence of citizens and are putting in time until
they are replaced.
The latest version of the NDP is much different and I think I will likely support them in
the next election. Politics is a living thing, in the sense that what happened before is
not necessarily what will happen again. Take Saskatchewan for example. When the
Grant Divine Tories were in power the order of the day was mismanagement and even
corruption. Today Brad Wall has his fault like anyone else but the present version
of conservative rule is much different that the one back then.
I think we need a change and the present Liberal/Federal Conservative coalition is done,
the social Conservative movement is not the answer either and the Greens are out in
the wilderness looking for organic berries. The NDP is the only alternative to the present
unethical crowd.
 
JLM
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

The fast cat ferries actually provided some serious benefit to the Province of BC.
Remember we had a considerable number of welders who were able to obtain
first quality skills with aluminum welding that has proved invaluable. The taxes
these people paid on earnings and the company contracts for additional work
after the cats has brought a lot of money and expertise to BC and the latest round
of contracts demonstrates that.
.

Cannot aluminum welding courses be put on without building albatrosses? Fast Cats were a fiasco in all aspects. However bad the Liberals get we don't ever need another N.D.P. Gov't.
 
petros
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Cannot aluminum welding courses be put on without building albatrosses? Fast Cats were a fiasco in all aspects. However bad the Liberals get we don't ever need another N.D.P. Gov't.

BC has never had a successful Govt. They've all blown it big time.
 
Cannuck
+2 / -1
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

What a lode of old fart crap. Did the young turn this beautiful garden planet into a garbage heap? Did the young spend the future of seven generations out from under their feet? Did the young leave a mountain of dept that the young for generations to come will never see the end of? Sorry but what we are seeing is a generation with no hope and no future, expressing their frustration at generations of old farts who stole their future. We created an unsustainable economic system bent on bankrupting the planet andwe sit around and whine about the youth who see what we have done and feel powerless to do anything about the shyte hole we created.


Why do you hate seniors?
 
JLM
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

BC has never had a successful Govt. They've all blown it big time.

That's debatable as I think the early days of WAC weren't too bad and he never ran any deficits.
 
petros
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

That's debatable as I think the early days of WAC weren't too bad and he never ran any deficits.

If you have to go back 40 years to name a politician who could manage the growth during boom times then something should be slapping you upside the noggin.

In the past 40 years since Bennet how many govts ended in scandal or obliteration of their party as growth spiralled downward?
 
captain morgan
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

If you have to go back 40 years to name a politician who could manage the growth during boom times then something should be slapping you upside the noggin.

In the past 40 years since Bennet how many govts ended in scandal or obliteration of their party as growth spiralled downward?


All of the past BC gvts (recent memory that is) have used the same strategy to bribe the electorate and the schmucks just keep on voting them back in.

They haven't quite figured-out that it's revenues from the private sector that keep the wheels greased. They somehow think that if they keep on creating more gvt jobs, that it will magically be different next time.
 
petros
+2
#25
BC needs two govts. One to appease the weirdos in Vancouver/Victoria and another to handle the rest and the resources that funds the only hole above the ground (Vancouver). Without the weirdos in Vancouver, BC would be flourishing.
 
captain morgan
+2
#26
No doubt, the tail wags the dog in that neck of the woods.

Nat resources coming out of their *** in the form of forestry, fisheries, gas, hydro, mining (damn near every precious metal in demand), possibly the best protected natural deep water port and almost direct access to the tenth (?) largest economy in the world (that being California).

But, we gotta give credit where credit is due... They've worked very hard for the last 40 years to f*ck up the province and no question about it - they've excelled in that area.
 
petros
#27
I have zero regrets getting the hell out of there.
 
captain morgan
#28
Same with me
 
JLM
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

If you have to go back 40 years to name a politician who could manage the growth during boom times then something should be slapping you upside the noggin.

In the past 40 years since Bennet how many govts ended in scandal or obliteration of their party as growth spiralled downward?

I didn't think Dave Barrett (1972-1975) was too bad, but he did a couple of stupid things, took the strap out of the schools and gave hippies a dog welfare allowance. He also brought in the A.L.R. (good). Bill Bennett was all right but his term ended during a recession so he probably wasn't remembered too fondly. Vanderzalm ended up a disaster for three reasons, he mixed religion with politics, he mixed personal business with politics and he wasn't good at managing his people, but actually a good man himself and a hard worker. Harcourt was good but not mean enough. Dave Stupich may have been his undoing over Bingo Gate.

You guys have problem put the problem in a nutshell, Government trying to do business.
 
petros
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I didn't think Dave Barrett (1972-1975) was too bad, but he did a couple of stupid things, took the strap out of the schools and gave hippies a dog welfare allowance. He also brought in the A.L.R. (good). Bill Bennett was all right but his term ended during a recession so he probably wasn't remembered too fondly. Vanderzalm ended up a disaster for three reasons, he mixed religion with politics, he mixed personal business with politics and he wasn't good at managing his people, but actually a good man himself and a hard worker. Harcourt was good but not mean enough. Dave Stupich may have been his undoing over Bingo Gate.

I still got the strap in 1974. Grumble grumble grumble.... Things must have been slow coming to Winfield.

In the past 40 years what do you have to show for all them except oodles of debt, financial stagnancy, low incomes, high crime rate and corruption?
 

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