British Columbia debt near $60 billion.


captain morgan
#61
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I agree. Cut off all the politicians and CEOs. They are the free loaders with the biggest pensions.


Change starts at home Cliffy... You game?
 
petros
#62
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post



This is what the interior of BC looks like. All those lovely light coloured patches are clear cuts. If you look closely you will notice that the majority of green patches are on really steep slopes. This province was raped and it is the timber industry that is at fault. Campbell cut most of the regulations, gutted the Forest Ministry and put the industry in charge of regulating itself (fox in charge of the hen house syndrome). So pointing fingers at unions and government regs doesn't wash. That is just passing the buck.

If you don't want to see trees cut down around you move to the prairies.
 
JLM
#63
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post



This is what the interior of BC looks like. All those lovely light coloured patches are clear cuts. If you look closely you will notice that the majority of green patches are on really steep slopes. This province was raped and it is the timber industry that is at fault. Campbell cut most of the regulations, gutted the Forest Ministry and put the industry in charge of regulating itself (fox in charge of the hen house syndrome). So pointing fingers at unions and government regs doesn't wash. That is just passing the buck.

I'm just not sure how much of the blame can be laid to Campbell, soft U.S. markets had an impact as did the mountain pine beetle. I think clear cuts are alright as long as they are kept small- perhaps 320 acres- selective logging works good for a guy logging his own property with a team of horses, but isn't too safe for "high lead" logging. Those clear cuts can also be replanted for another harvest in 80 years.
 
petros
#64
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Those clear cuts can also be replanted for another harvest in 80 years.

Try 25. Trees hugged in 1987 are ready for harvest today.
 
JLM
#65
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I agree. Cut off all the politicians and CEOs. They are the free loaders with the biggest pensions.

You're 75% right but you on a slippery slope when you say ALL.

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Try 25. Trees hugged in 1987 are ready for harvest today.

Yeah, works good for Xmas trees.

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

If you don't want to see trees cut down around you move to the prairies.

And live in tents not houses!
 
Cliffy
#66
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I'm just not sure how much of the blame can be laid to Campbell, soft U.S. markets had an impact as did the mountain pine beetle. I think clear cuts are alright as long as they are kept small- perhaps 320 acres- selective logging works good for a guy logging his own property with a team of horses, but isn't too safe for "high lead" logging. Those clear cuts can also be replanted for another harvest in 80 years.

A tree farm is not a forest. If we have to wait 80 years to cut more trees there won't be anybody around who knows how to cut them. I'll repeat this one more time. When I got here in 72, everybody had a job. There were 3 or 4 times more people employed in the industry and about 1/3rd the trees were being cut than in 2000. Then everything was mechanized and only 1/3rd the people were employed and 3 times more trees were being cut annually. The forests were creamed off and now only steep mountain sides that economically unviable are left. Yes the mountain beetle has devastated much of what was left of our pine forests, but there is a logical and scientific explanation for that and it points back to human greed. It stems from industry and government only seeing dollar signs instead of eco systems.

Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

You're 75% right but you on a slippery slope when you say ALL.

Yeah, works good for Xmas trees.

And live in tents not houses!

I have built several houses for myself using standing dead trees and recycled lumber from abandoned mining operations. First off people demand houses that are far bigger than they need and two, logging methods, particularly clear cutting, are unsustainable. Saying that selective logging is not feasible is pure nonsense propaganda fed to us by the greedy timber industry. Ask the Swedes.
 
petros
+1
#67
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post



Yeah, works good for Xmas trees.



And live in tents not houses!

6-9 years for an X-mas tree.

We have no shortage of aspen, fir and spruce in SK.to build houses. If BC doesn't want to benefit, other provinces wil gladly meet the demand.
 
captain morgan
#68
I think that BC prefers to have their forests naturally regenerated via forest fires
 
JLM
#69
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

I think that BC prefers to have their forests naturally regenerated via forest fires

"Forest fires" can be healthy.................as long as they can be controlled.
 
petros
#70
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

"Forest fires" can be healthy.................as long as they can be controlled.

Controlled like clear cuts?
 
captain morgan
+1
#71
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

"Forest fires" can be healthy.................as long as they can be controlled.

Don't expect to have any form of control on that. The forestry management techniques over the last decades have ensured that there are a couple of meters of deadfall (read: kindling) all over the place.

It won't be pretty, but at least the forests weren't logged - there is some comfort in that.
 
JLM
#72
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Controlled like clear cuts?

Thinning, removing debris, building fire guards every mile or so.
 
captain morgan
#73
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Thinning, removing debris, building fire guards every mile or so.


That ought to add nicely to the $60 billion debt.
 
petros
#74
Clear cuts every mile? Would that give humans access to every square inch of forest?
 
JLM
#75
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

That ought to add nicely to the $60 billion debt.

I'm not sure of that, might be able to transfer some from the welfare budget. We'd lose much less merchantable timber.

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Clear cuts every mile? Would that give humans access to every square inch of forest?

No- FIRE GUARDS every mile.
 
petros
#76
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I'm not sure of that, might be able to transfer some from the welfare budget. We'd lose much less merchantable timber.

Do the math on the habit lost to a 1 mile by 1 mile grid system.
 
captain morgan
#77
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

I'm not sure of that, might be able to transfer some from the welfare budget. We'd lose much less merchantable timber.

I suppose that it might make sense to get the welfare population working on setting up the program. At least BC might see a little value for the monies spent - other than opening a few new Insite offices that is.
 
petros
+1
#78
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

I suppose that it might make sense to get the welfare population working on setting up the program. At least BC might see a little value for the monies spent - other than opening a few new Insite offices that is.

It would cost far far more to house and feed people in remote locations while they work than to have them run freely on the streets.

Perhaps if BC had a real economy there wouldn't be so much welfare?
 
captain morgan
#79
Well said
 
JLM
#80
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It would cost far far more to house and feed people in remote locations while they work than to have them run freely on the streets.

Perhaps if BC had a real economy there wouldn't be so much welfare?

Forestry, agriculture, fishing, mining, tourism, manufacturing, natural gas, ranching, ship building, deep sea ports................how much more real can we be?
 
petros
#81
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Forestry, agriculture, fishing, mining, tourism, manufacturing, natural gas, ranching, ship building, deep sea ports................how much more real can we be?

Are they managed properly?
 
JLM
#82
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Are they managed properly?

No idea, probably some are, some aren't. One thing for sure if the Unions were taken out of the equation they'd be managed a lot better. Nothing like supporting a fourth level of parasites.
 
petros
+1
#83
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

No idea, probably some are, some aren't. One thing for sure if the Unions were taken out of the equation they'd be managed a lot better. Nothing like supporting a fourth level of parasites.

It's the Unions fault that management is ****ed up? Since when is management Union?

If Unions are the problem then why is the debt ratio of BC compared to SK at 20:1? You can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting a Union. Why are we leading Canada in growth Unions and all?
 
JLM
#84
Quote: Originally Posted by petros;1550432[B

]It's the Unions fault that management is ****ed up?[/B] Since when is management Union?

My experience with Unions was it was absolutely impossible to get rid of the drones, parasites and sh*t disturbers. The frustration they cause wastes so much valuable time and it takes away incentive from serious employees. I often found myself in a position where I earned exactly the same wage as a guy who worked beside me and dog f&&ked all day.
 
petros
#85
Drones, parasites and sh*t disturbers are the norm in and out of the Union setting.
 
JLM
#86
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Drones, parasites and sh*t disturbers are the norm in and out of the Union setting.

But out of the Union setting you fire them!
 
petros
#87
Nobody gets canned if they are Union members?
 
JLM
#88
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Nobody gets canned if they are Union members?

Not unless they shoot the boss or screw his wife!
 
Tonington
#89
$60 billion...so? BC has a great credit rating, and one of the lowest debt to gdp ratios amongst provinces. More important is what the government is doing. They seem to be doing many things to address the debt issue, which doesn't really look that bad.
Quote:

The government intends to reduce the civil service by more than 2,000 people by the end of 2014/15.

The K-12 education budget barely moved from 2011-12 to 2012-13. It was $5.2-billion a year ago and will be $5.3-billion this year. More impressive, however, is what the B.C. government has done with health-care costs, which not that long ago were rising at the rate of about 7 per cent a year.

Over the next few years, the budget forecasts Health Ministry spending to increase by an average of less than 3 per cent a year.

In all, the budgets of 14 of 17 ministries have either been cut or increased by less than 1 per cent over the next three years.

Mr. Falcon seemed almost embarrassed to admit that the province’s debt-to-GDP ratio was going to inch up to 18.3 per cent in 2014-15 before – if all goes according to plan – it begins to go downward again. (B.C.’s accumulated debt will hit $66-billion in two years). By contrast, Ontario’s debt-to-GDP ratio is 37 per cent. The country’s as a whole is 35 per cent.

With B.C. budget, Clark establishes her conservative credentials - The Globe and Mail
 
JLM
#90
Quote: Originally Posted by ToningtonView Post

$60 billion...so? BC has a great credit rating, and one of the lowest debt to gdp ratios amongst provinces. More important is what the government is doing. They seem to be doing many things to address the debt issue, which doesn't really look that bad.

With B.C. budget, Clark establishes her conservative credentials - The Globe and Mail

Well, that's right, there's debt and then there's debt. Debt for infrastructure is more like an investment. I was glad to see M.S. premiums being increased- (some are whining of course that it's just another tax) but that is bullsh*t- it's more like paying for the service they demand. For all but the indigent I'd like to see it raised 50%, instead of 4% and then they'd appreciate the health services more. I think the number of hospitals could be reduced so the main ones could be funded properly. I can think of one area with a total population of 150,000 where there are 4 hospitals in 32 miles. The two bigger ones at either end would serve well if more funding was available and no one would be more than 16 miles from a hospital. We need more extended care facilities, so hospital beds aren't being tied up unnecessarily.
 

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