British Columbia debt near $60 billion.


Cliffy
-1
#31
Personally, I would like to see BC declared an international heritage park, stop all logging, mining and oil pipelines.

When I lived in the Cariboo I was a member of the Cariboo Tourist association. At the annual meeting some clown got up and said "we will soon run out of trees that are economical to cut, so tourism will become the number one industry. We should start building motels and hotels right now to accommodate all the people who will flock here." So I said, "If we wait until we cut down all the trees, pray tell, who the hell will want to come here?"

Some guy on Vancouver Island thought he would start a business offering guided tours of clearcuts on the island - epic fail! Loggers like to piss and whine about ecotards screwing up the industry, but the fact is that the loggers over logged themselves out of a job. Now we ship what few jobs that would be left out of country for pennies. Whose fault is it really? We once had a pristine wilderness that people used to love to visit. Now we practically have to beg them to come to view the devastation.
 
JLM
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

I still got the strap in 1974. Grumble grumble grumble.... Things must have been slow coming to Winfield.

In the past 40 years what do you have to show for all them except oodles of debt, financial stagnancy, low incomes, high crime rate and corruption?

Oh, oh, Eileen Dailly probably didn't like you too much.
 
damngrumpy
#33
Actually loggers did not out log themselves, the government is selling raw logs to foreign countries
and that should stop. Dave Barrett was in fact a good Premier, the problem for him was he believed
you could do everything at once and you can't. What happened was a first time government who did
try to change the landscape instead of concentrating on the real problems at hand and it did not
work out at all.
Bill Bennett practiced a government of mean spirit. he sold the boxcar plant and a number of other
companies that could have diversified the economy of BC much earlier than it happened.
Bill Vander Zalm was a figure who created a crisis of confidence, that brought the Province to its own
level of disintegration and his successor was probably the meanest person they could have found
and that backfired.
Harcourt was likely the most honorable man this Province ever had as a leader, I personally didn't
care for him but he was a Statesman even when he was in office. Bingo Gate which happened a
couple of decades earlier came back to haunt the party not Mike Harcourt. He was a victim of
circumstance.
Glen Clark wasn't a bad guy really and when all the shouting was done he proved to be right he didn't
do anything wrong. He hired a guy who lived on his block who wasn't working. He wrote a second
check because the cost of materials was higher than estimated by the time the projects started. At
that time lumber prices skyrocketed. he did not want is said he got special treatment or something for
nothing. The lumbermen's club different story. There were politicians who patronized that place over
nearly twenty years and they were from different parties as well.
The same can be said for Piggies Palace many will remember, it was located on the other end of the
Pickton Property and had no licence to operate but politicians and some say other officials patronized
it from time to time at least it was alleged so.
After Clark was the sellout artist Ujjal who was nothing more than a gutter snipe a liberal hiding in the
NDP Premiers office. Much of his leadership campaign was paid for by federal liberals I understand.
Gordon Campbell was the most divisive man the province had for a Premier. Policy decisions were
written on the backs of envelops on the way to announcement and sometimes cabinet ministers had
no idea of what was going to be announced.
Christi Crunch is an air head who's time will never come she will lose
Dix who knows he seems like a decent guy and has a well thought out program but will he have the
patients of leadership to stick to his own priorities only time will tell.
Meanwhile someone has to tackle the mountain of debt they have all created.
 
Kreskin
#34
During the Dave Barrett era our band played at one of the NDP shindigs. I couldn't how many of them were heavy drinkers. Most of the leadership was completely ****faced.
 
Machjo
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

We already pay a hefty gas tax for driving. Unfortunately we also pay a hefty gas tax to subsidize public transit for those that don't drive. We could do without a lot of expensive bureaucrats. There are several levels of government and some quasi government bodies that have taxing authority but only one level of taxpayer to foot the bill. The one that I find most ridiculous is parks. There are at least 4 different levels of government with parks in their mandate, all with their own highly and over manned bureaucracy. That does not include school playgrounds either.

I could agree with cutting subsidies to public transit too. This might encourage more people to move closer to work and use the cities' walking and cycling paths, far less expensive than highways and buses.

Quote: Originally Posted by KreskinView Post

During the Dave Barrett era our band played at one of the NDP shindigs. I couldn't how many of them were heavy drinkers. Most of the leadership was completely ****faced.

That might explain why they support socialized health care, so that we teetotallers can foot the bill for their alcohol-related illnesses. You want socialized medicine, then pay the tax on booze and cigs.
 
Cannuck
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

You want socialized medicine, then pay the tax on booze and cigs.

...and fast food, prepackaged food, athletic equipment, vehicles, TV, microwaves, dirt bikes, BBQs, books, computers, vacations and anything else that leads to an unhealthy or sedentary lifestyle.
 
JLM
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

...and fast food, prepackaged food, athletic equipment, vehicles, TV, microwaves, dirt bikes, BBQs, books, computers, vacations and anything else that leads to an unhealthy or sedentary lifestyle.

And golf.
 
Cannuck
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

And golf.

You mean golf carts. Golf itself leads to a healthy and active lifestyle.
 
JLM
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

I could agree with cutting subsidies to public transit too. This might encourage more people to move closer to work and use the cities' walking and cycling paths, far less expensive than highways and buses.



.

Buses are good, you don't want to encourage people to move closer to the city core- ever check the price of real estate downtown? As the population ages there are fewer people able to do long distance walking or cycling.

Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

You mean golf carts. Golf itself leads to a healthy and active lifestyle.

No Golf. When you are lolly gagging around the golf course you are just putting yourself in a position of getting hit on the head with a golf ball. Also strolling along the golf course isn't real exercise- it's OK for 85 year old women.
 
Machjo
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

...and fast food, prepackaged food, athletic equipment, vehicles, TV, microwaves, dirt bikes, BBQs, books, computers, vacations and anything else that leads to an unhealthy or sedentary lifestyle.

I could agree with taxing cholesterol-laden basic ingredients.

Cigs and alcohol however are never necessary, whereas some prepackaged food, depending on the ingredients, might not be so bad now and then when you're busy, athletic equipment can make you fit if used properly, vehicles can be essential for some businesses (though I can support a gas tax and maybe tax on resources like metals), TV can sometimes be educational, dirt bikes use gas (refer to gas tax), BBQ can cook healthy food in some cases, computers are sometimes necessary for work (though I can agree to taxing non-renewable energy resources that might power my computer), and during vacations you'll probably still pay lots of gas tax for the flight there.

As for cigs and alcohol, they are never healthy, or in the rare cases where alcohol may be used for some medicinal purpose, we could exempt hospitals from paying taxes on alcohol. But otherwise when are they ever necessary. Big difference.
 
Cannuck
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

No Golf. When you are lolly gagging around the golf course you are just putting yourself in a position of getting hit on the head with a golf ball. Also strolling along the golf course isn't real exercise- it's OK for 85 year old women.

You're right JLM, walking isn't considered exercise.

Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Cigs and alcohol however are never necessary


A drink a day linked to healthy aging - CNN.com (external - login to view)
 
Machjo
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Buses are good, you don't want to encourage people to move closer to the city core- ever check the price of real estate downtown?

Then what about encouraging business to move to the suburbs?

Quote:

As the population ages there are fewer people able to do long distance walking or cycling.

If they don't have to bus as far, that will also reduce the cost of public transit, no?
 
JLM
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

You're right JLM, walking isn't considered exercise.

A drink a day linked to healthy aging - CNN.com (external - login to view)

Only if you put some effort into it and the steeper the ground the better, not lolly gagging on flat golf courses.
 
Cannuck
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

not lolly gagging on flat golf courses.

I've never played on a flat course. Where do you find them?

www.livestrong.com/article/36...ered-exercise/ (external - login to view)
 
Machjo
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

You're right JLM, walking isn't considered exercise.




A drink a day linked to healthy aging - CNN.com (external - login to view)

Well at least find some way to make taxes more user-pay.

The only exceptions to that might be universal compulsory education (since all children ought to have a right to an education, we could all contribute via some flat income tax) and other basic essentialy services such as the administration of the government itself, and the justice system.

But all non-essentials ought to be as user-pay as possible somehow.
 
petros
#46
It's already law that kids HAVE TO attend school until 16.
 
taxslave
+1
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

The fast cat ferries actually provided some serious benefit to the Province of BC.
Remember we had a considerable number of welders who were able to obtain
first quality skills with aluminum welding that has proved invaluable. The taxes
these people paid on earnings and the company contracts for additional work
after the cats has brought a lot of money and expertise to BC and the latest round
of contracts demonstrates that.
The Cats were sold cheap mostly for political reason actually and some of those
boats were used by private interests from America in BC waters for a time then
sold overseas by others for profit.
The present government has made the most mess of the deficit and debt though.
In addition people here do pay more taxes and they receive benefits for those taxes
I do not regret that I pay more as we have a lot going for us in BC. The problem is
we have a dishonest government in power or should I say making believe they are
in power. They have lost the confidence of citizens and are putting in time until
they are replaced.
The latest version of the NDP is much different and I think I will likely support them in
the next election. Politics is a living thing, in the sense that what happened before is
not necessarily what will happen again. Take Saskatchewan for example. When the
Grant Divine Tories were in power the order of the day was mismanagement and even
corruption. Today Brad Wall has his fault like anyone else but the present version
of conservative rule is much different that the one back then.
I think we need a change and the present Liberal/Federal Conservative coalition is done,
the social Conservative movement is not the answer either and the Greens are out in
the wilderness looking for organic berries. The NDP is the only alternative to the present
unethical crowd.

Pure Bull$hit. Building the fat cats was a political stunt with no business plan. Did you know that out of work journeyman welders were not hired because they dippers wanted to make a training program out of this. Or that they ran a welding training program for women only?

Currently we have the best government we have had since WAC Bennett. Unfortunately in 10 years they still have not managed to undo all the damage the dippers did. And you want to replace them with dishonest Dix, one of the architects of the dark decade of dipper mismanagement? Those of us that still have to work for a living cannot afford another hit like that to the economy.
 
captain morgan
#48
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

I could agree with taxing cholesterol-laden basic ingredients.

Cigs and alcohol however are never necessary, whereas some prepackaged food, depending on the ingredients, might not be so bad now and then when you're busy, athletic equipment can make you fit if used properly, vehicles can be essential for some businesses (though I can support a gas tax and maybe tax on resources like metals), TV can sometimes be educational, dirt bikes use gas (refer to gas tax), BBQ can cook healthy food in some cases, computers are sometimes necessary for work (though I can agree to taxing non-renewable energy resources that might power my computer), and during vacations you'll probably still pay lots of gas tax for the flight there.

As for cigs and alcohol, they are never healthy, or in the rare cases where alcohol may be used for some medicinal purpose, we could exempt hospitals from paying taxes on alcohol. But otherwise when are they ever necessary. Big difference.

You're making excuses Machjo.

Excusing pre-packaged foods due to a 'convenience' issue or minimizing the healthcare costs resulting from high impact/high risk sports is disingenuous.
 
petros
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Pure Bull$hit. Building the fat cats was a political stunt with no business plan. Did you know that out of work journeyman welders were not hired because they dippers wanted to make a training program out of this. Or that they ran a welding training program for women only?

Currently we have the best government we have had since WAC Bennett. Unfortunately in 10 years they still have not managed to undo all the damage the dippers did. And you want to replace them with dishonest Dix, one of the architects of the dark decade of dipper mismanagement? Those of us that still have to work for a living cannot afford another hit like that to the economy.

You figure the latest abortion is a good govt?
 
taxslave
+1
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Actually loggers did not out log themselves, the government is selling raw logs to foreign countries
and that should stop. Dave Barrett was in fact a good Premier, the problem for him was he believed
you could do everything at once and you can't. What happened was a first time government who did
try to change the landscape instead of concentrating on the real problems at hand and it did not
work out at all.
Bill Bennett practiced a government of mean spirit. he sold the boxcar plant and a number of other
companies that could have diversified the economy of BC much earlier than it happened.
Bill Vander Zalm was a figure who created a crisis of confidence, that brought the Province to its own
level of disintegration and his successor was probably the meanest person they could have found
and that backfired.
Harcourt was likely the most honorable man this Province ever had as a leader, I personally didn't
care for him but he was a Statesman even when he was in office. Bingo Gate which happened a
couple of decades earlier came back to haunt the party not Mike Harcourt. He was a victim of
circumstance.
Glen Clark wasn't a bad guy really and when all the shouting was done he proved to be right he didn't
do anything wrong. He hired a guy who lived on his block who wasn't working. He wrote a second
check because the cost of materials was higher than estimated by the time the projects started. At
that time lumber prices skyrocketed. he did not want is said he got special treatment or something for
nothing. The lumbermen's club different story. There were politicians who patronized that place over
nearly twenty years and they were from different parties as well.
The same can be said for Piggies Palace many will remember, it was located on the other end of the
Pickton Property and had no licence to operate but politicians and some say other officials patronized
it from time to time at least it was alleged so.
After Clark was the sellout artist Ujjal who was nothing more than a gutter snipe a liberal hiding in the
NDP Premiers office. Much of his leadership campaign was paid for by federal liberals I understand.
Gordon Campbell was the most divisive man the province had for a Premier. Policy decisions were
written on the backs of envelops on the way to announcement and sometimes cabinet ministers had
no idea of what was going to be announced.
Christi Crunch is an air head who's time will never come she will lose
Dix who knows he seems like a decent guy and has a well thought out program but will he have the
patients of leadership to stick to his own priorities only time will tell.
Meanwhile someone has to tackle the mountain of debt they have all created.

More Bull$hit. The government is not selling logs anywhere. In fact it is not that easy to export logs from crown land. The vast majority of log exports come from private lands and Indian reserves. The biggest reason there are few mills left in B.C. is because a combination of union greed, over regulation and multiple levels of government over taxation killed the goose that laid the golden egg.
The rest of your trash must have come directly from the Tyee news. Lots of lefty spin but no facts or reality.

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

You figure the latest abortion is a good govt?

Better than the alternative.
 
Machjo
#51
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

You're making excuses Machjo.

Excusing pre-packaged foods due to a 'convenience' issue or minimizing the healthcare costs resulting from high impact/high risk sports is disingenuous.

Well, if there was a tax on cholesterol-laden ingredients, then pre-packaged foods using such ingredients would be paying the tax indirectly.

As for high-risk sports, maybe require participants to buy medical insurance for it for instance. Either that or tax the equipment. This should not apply to low-impact/risk sports equipment beyond the tax on the metal itself.

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It's already law that kids HAVE TO attend school until 16.

I know. I'm waying though that I have no issues with the funding for that to come from income tax. But for most other things, the tax ought to be more targetted to reflect user-pay principles.
 
petros
#52
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Better than the alternative.

If you have to choose between abortions then the problem isn't the govt is it?

Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Well, if there was a tax on cholesterol-laden ingredients, then pre-packaged foods using such ingredients would be paying the tax indirectly.

As for high-risk sports, maybe require participants to buy medical insurance for it for instance. Either that or tax the equipment. This should not apply to low-impact/risk sports equipment beyond the tax on the metal itself.



I know. I'm waying though that I have no issues with the funding for that to come from income tax. But for most other things, the tax ought to be more targetted to reflect user-pay principles.

Education comes out of property taxes not income taxes.
 
taxslave
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

If you have to choose between abortions then the problem isn't the govt is it?

MUch like the options federally. Right now we have the best of a bad lot.
Don't forget that the BC NDP make Jack Layton look like a conservative.
 
JLM
#54
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

Currently we have the best government we have had since WAC Bennett. Unfortunately in 10 years they still have not managed to undo all the damage the dippers did. And you want to replace them with dishonest Dix, one of the architects of the dark decade of dipper mismanagement? Those of us that still have to work for a living cannot afford another hit like that to the economy.

You could be right- I guess the biggest blemish was getting rid of B.C. Rail and how it was done, but the fast cat fiasco overshadows that by a country mile. Gordo's impaired charge didn't help, but really is that a government matter, definitely didn't set a good example. He did reduce provincial income tax by 25% right off the bat. He was unpopular over closing small unefficient hospitals, but with hospital equipment so costly they were just unaffordable. I don't think Dixie Cup is going far, N.D.P. would be better off with Farnsworth.
 
taxslave
+1
#55
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Personally, I would like to see BC declared an international heritage park, stop all logging, mining and oil pipelines.

When I lived in the Cariboo I was a member of the Cariboo Tourist association. At the annual meeting some clown got up and said "we will soon run out of trees that are economical to cut, so tourism will become the number one industry. We should start building motels and hotels right now to accommodate all the people who will flock here." So I said, "If we wait until we cut down all the trees, pray tell, who the hell will want to come here?"

Some guy on Vancouver Island thought he would start a business offering guided tours of clearcuts on the island - epic fail! Loggers like to piss and whine about ecotards screwing up the industry, but the fact is that the loggers over logged themselves out of a job. Now we ship what few jobs that would be left out of country for pennies. Whose fault is it really? We once had a pristine wilderness that people used to love to visit. Now we practically have to beg them to come to view the devastation.

What we should do us eliminate expensive pensions to free loaders.
 
petros
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

MUch like the options federally. Right now we have the best of a bad lot.
Don't forget that the BC NDP make Jack Layton look like a conservative.

There is no such thing as good **** and bad ****. It's all **** no matter how you slice it.
 
captain morgan
#57
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

What we should do us eliminate expensive pensions to free loaders.


Let's not forget that if BC is declared an Intl Heritage Park, we'd have to move all of the folks outta there to preserve nature properly.
 
Cliffy
#58


This is what the interior of BC looks like. All those lovely light coloured patches are clear cuts. If you look closely you will notice that the majority of green patches are on really steep slopes. This province was raped and it is the timber industry that is at fault. Campbell cut most of the regulations, gutted the Forest Ministry and put the industry in charge of regulating itself (fox in charge of the hen house syndrome). So pointing fingers at unions and government regs doesn't wash. That is just passing the buck.
 
Machjo
#59
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It's already law that kids HAVE TO attend school until 16.

I know. I'm Saying though that I have no issues with the funding for that to come from income tax. But for most other things, the tax ought to be more targetted to reflect user-pay principles.
 
Cliffy
#60
Quote: Originally Posted by taxslaveView Post

What we should do us eliminate expensive pensions to free loaders.

I agree. Cut off all the politicians and CEOs. They are the free loaders with the biggest pensions.
 

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