Syria - |UN peace Keepers or interventions


View Poll Results: Arab League to intervene if killings continue in Syria
Yes - but only with sanctions 0 0%
Arab league should increase sanctions 1 25.00%
Yes with armed force if required 0 0%
No - armed force should not be used 2 50.00%
Arab league to inform Russia China that a Veto would be unacceptable. 1 25.00%
Voters: 4. You may not vote on this poll

Goober
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

I'd rather the ME countries settle ME problems and do it peacefully as possible.

Look to Iraq.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2...un-friday.html

Syrian forces have killed more than 100 people in the central area of the country, including the city of Homs, where the Red Cross has begun removing injured women and children.

The Local Coordincation Committees said civilians were killed in the continued bombardment of Homs and in attacks on the countryside of Hama and the east and north of the country on Friday.

Red Cross teams in Homs are still negotiating with rebels and government forces to remove all the wounded from Homs, including two journalists.

Since Friday afternoon, the Red Cross and the Syrian Arab Red Crescent have been in Baba Amr, the neighbourhood in Homs that has become the centre of the Syrian revolt, agency officials say.

Syrian Canadians
Dr. Ahmed Chaker, a member of the Syrian National Council and co-founder of the Syrian Canadian Council, told CBC News that the Canadian government's response to the atrocities in Syria has been "very weak up to now."

"We are expecting Canada to do much more [to push] for a humanitarian mission, for a medical mission … through the UN, through any way. We need Canada to do something today."

Chaker added any humanitarian mission should involve "safe corridors" supported by planes and ships.
French journalists Edith Bouvier and William Daniels have asked for help leaving embattled Homs after Bouvier was wounded in shelling Wednesday that killed U.S.-born veteran war correspondent Marie Colvin and French photographer Remi Ochlik.

The Red Cross called the removal of the women and children a "first step forward."
Last edited by Goober; Feb 24th, 2012 at 07:48 PM..
 
MHz
#32
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

The initial crack down was by Syrian Military on orders from Assad.
Remember how his father put down dissidents in Homs?

Remember how Syrian was falsely blamed as having taken part in an international assassination and it turned out to be a lie, by the US and some cronies. Lot of good it did 5 years later. It would be like you finding out Pearl Harbor didn't happen the way the books say it did.
 
Goober
#33
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Remember how Syrian was falsely blamed as having taken part in an international assassination and it turned out to be a lie, by the US and some cronies. Lot of good it did 5 years later. It would be like you finding out Pearl Harbor didn't happen the way the books say it did.

The Lebanese PM - Hezbollah - who do they work for?
 
damngrumpy
#34
This is a very troubled place and we do not need to bring down another dictator to replace him
with something worse. Egypt is a prime example. We got rid of Mubarak and now we have the
Islamic Brotherhood that is about to introduce a fundamentalist regime in that country before the
dust settles.
We got rid of Saddam in Iraq and what we have now is worse and will get worse, as it slides into
the Iranian orbit. Afghanistan is a nation that we rid the place of the Taliban and that was a good
thing. The problem is we have not liberated the entire country and the government there is now
is more corrupt than any government before it. The afghan mission has also destabilized the
nation of Pakistan.
In North Africa there is some hope, not much but some and in North East Africa we have now
replaced corrupt governments with pirates what a refreshing change that is eh?

In Syria we have had a stable government although a dictatorship. This is a government not
friendly with Iran, and the population has enjoyed a reasonable amount of secularism rather than
Islamic dictates. Now of course the Islamic Brotherhood is at work doing what they did in Egypt
and soon we will see any hope of democracy become a distant memory. If we continue to support
the forces at work in the Middle East we are setting ourselves up for a massive conflict withing
a decade.
I say no do not support a new Devil deal with the one you have at present, This situation is not
about oil its about the balance of power in the region and we dare not turn that over to religious
fundamentalist Muslims. In the west we are about to be confronted with another group of
religious fundamentalist Christians storming the White House. In my opinion fundamentalists be
they Muslim or Christian or anything else they are a dangerous mix for a democracy.
I say wait this out and do not take sides its a civil war and civil wars need to come to conclusive
ends within the boarders of a nation.
 
MHz
#35
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

The Lebanese PM - Hezbollah - who do they work for?

The people of Lebanon are the ones who hired them. Before being elected they were an opposition part supported by a minority of the people, I don't recall any pleas from the world to arm them with the means to start a bloody revolt.
 
Goober
#36
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

The people of Lebanon are the ones who hired them. Before being elected they were an opposition part supported by a minority of the people, I don't recall any pleas from the world to arm them with the means to start a bloody revolt.

And with massive support in weapons and money from Iran.

Guess you should reconsider who hired them.
 
MHz
#37
The government can buy weapons from anybody they wish. Smalls arms are what compared to S-300 air defense systems, you willing to try and tell Russia (or China) who they can support after they have made contracts, ones that are backed up unlike the omes the West makes in terms of international agreements.

That is Syria's situation. Lebanon isn't in danger of attack they get visits fro US aircraft carries and no shell fly so it must be a friendly visit.
 
MHz
#38
If there wasn't news I wouldn't bump this, but too bad you-tube doesn't get some 'last minute confessions' of better yet from the French soldiers knowing they were caught behind enemy lines while out of uniform. "they shoot spies don't they?" is not just a movie. To set yourself up for military execution must mean they would rather have that than being a prisoner under the label that applies to those in GITMO.

(in part)
During the assault on the rebel stronghold in the Homs district of Bab Amr, the Syrian army took more than 1,500 prisoners, mostly foreigners. Of these, a dozen French nationals requested the status of prisoner of war, refusing to give their identity, rank and unit of assignment. One of them is a Colonel working for the DGSE (external - login to view) transmission service.


In the absence of an obligation stipulated in the relevant treaties, the secret war led by President Sarkozy and his government constitutes an unprecedented act under the Fifth Republic. It violates Article 35 of the Constitution and amounts to a crime punishable by the High Court (Article 6.

France's secret war against the Syrian people [Voltaire Network] (external - login to view)


www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkzS5...layer_embedded (external - login to view)
Last edited by MHz; Feb 25th, 2012 at 12:43 PM..
 
Goober
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

If there wasn't news I wouldn't bump this, but too bad you-tube doesn't get some 'last minute confessions' of better yet from the French soldiers knowing they were caught behind enemy lines while out of uniform. "they shoot spies don't they?" is not just a movie. To set yourself up for military execution must mean they would rather have that than being a prisoner under the label that applies to those in GITMO.
(in part)
During the assault on the rebel stronghold in the Homs district of Bab Amr, the Syrian army took more than 1,500 prisoners, mostly foreigners. Of these, a dozen French nationals requested the status of prisoner of war, refusing to give their identity, rank and unit of assignment. One of them is a Colonel working for the DGSE transmission service.
In the absence of an obligation stipulated in the relevant treaties, the secret war led by President Sarkozy and his government constitutes an unprecedented act under the Fifth Republic. It violates Article 35 of the Constitution and amounts to a crime punishable by the High Court (Article 6.
France's secret war against the Syrian people [Voltaire...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Odd that the Syrians have not posted this?
 
MHz
#40
Still odder is that FOXNBCMNS haven't put out any government inspired headlines claiming how false the report is.

After all they did post an article that covered the country in high detail as to the causalities. Other reports, be glad to give you the links, say that inside reports from Syria say no big violent demonstrations are going on in the stated neighborhoods. Video is a solid witness is it not (once it is verified and the individual identified)?

Not so odd that Syria is quiet if negotiations are underway with the French. Think how it will look if they have been missing long enough that the French should have reported them missing if they were 'innocent people'. Would you not not lose a lot of your leverage in behind closed doors negotiations if you blabbed to the news that you even had them in that they were in civilian clothes and on tape doing spy type stuff.

If some Iranians from out of town were 'captured' and recorded then I' sure Syria has the same capabilities. Egypt just did a sweep of the NGO's and neted a dozen fish, not surprising you would find 100 times that in Syria in the ramp up to war. Somehow I don't see this going the same way as it did in libya if it starts out this badly. The first mark of success for NATO in Libya was to send in some spies and make contact with the opposition, enough so they were shown a weapons cache and , surprise, surprise it blows up a few days later.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6_1Pw1xm9U (external - login to view)


Lets not forget the classic of this century, send in a 'camera crew' to assassinate the leader of the opposition so somebody friendly to the CIA is in charge. Or did you forget who the allies are in Afghanistan and how they were recruited?
Last edited by MHz; Feb 25th, 2012 at 03:21 PM..
 
Goober
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Still odder is that FOXNBCMNS haven't put out any government inspired headlines claiming how false the report is.

After all they did post an article that covered the country in high detail as to the causalities. Other reports, be glad to give you the links, say that inside reports from Syria say no big violent demonstrations are going on in the stated neighborhoods. Video is a solid witness is it not (once it is verified and the individual identified)?

Not so odd that Syria is quiet if negotiations are underway with the French. Think how it will look if they have been missing long enough that the French should have reported them missing if they were 'innocent people'. Would you not not lose a lot of your leverage in behind closed doors negotiations if you blabbed to the news that you even had them in that they were in civilian clothes and on tape doing spy type stuff.

I checked the Syrian Papers this am - State and Private - as they all toe the party line - None had a report of this. Not one. I find that odd.
 
MHz
#42
Didn't you just eliminate your own reason for doubt. No word would be the sign of a tight dictatorship. Even CSI doesn't make statements to the press before charges are laid. What I find odd is that you find no news odd when it appears to be a secret on this side of the news also, yet ...... The voice on the vid is the same one who did a lot of interviews with a woman who was inside Libya during NATO's invasion. It wasn't fake then so why would it be now?
You just happen to have those Syrian links on speed-dial, ... comrade??
 
L Gilbert
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Look to Iraq.

More than 100 killed in Syria - World - CBC News

Syrian forces have killed more than 100 people in the central area of the country, including the city of Homs, where the Red Cross has begun removing injured women and children.

The Local Coordincation Committees said civilians were killed in the continued bombardment of Homs and in attacks on the countryside of Hama and the east and north of the country on Friday.

Red Cross teams in Homs are still negotiating with rebels and government forces to remove all the wounded from Homs, including two journalists.

Since Friday afternoon, the Red Cross and the Syrian Arab Red Crescent have been in Baba Amr, the neighbourhood in Homs that has become the centre of the Syrian revolt, agency officials say.

Syrian Canadians
Dr. Ahmed Chaker, a member of the Syrian National Council and co-founder of the Syrian Canadian Council, told CBC News that the Canadian government's response to the atrocities in Syria has been "very weak up to now."

"We are expecting Canada to do much more [to push] for a humanitarian mission, for a medical mission … through the UN, through any way. We need Canada to do something today."

Chaker added any humanitarian mission should involve "safe corridors" supported by planes and ships.
French journalists Edith Bouvier and William Daniels have asked for help leaving embattled Homs after Bouvier was wounded in shelling Wednesday that killed U.S.-born veteran war correspondent Marie Colvin and French photographer Remi Ochlik.

The Red Cross called the removal of the women and children a "first step forward."

uhuh I'd still rather they settle their own problems as peacefully as possible. If the Arab League chooses to force a stop to the killings, it's still up to them.
 
Goober
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

uhuh I'd still rather they settle their own problems as peacefully as possible. If the Arab League chooses to force a stop to the killings, it's still up to them.

The Arab league if they go in then it will be led by Turkey and financed by Saudi.
 
L Gilbert
+3
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

The Arab league if they go in then it will be led by Turkey and financed by Saudi.

Yeah. It's still ME countries looking into ME affairs. Other countries should butt out, IMO. Especially if they have only self-serving agendas.
 
Goober
#46
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Yeah. It's still ME countries looking into ME affairs. Other countries should butt out, IMO. Especially if they have only self-serving agendas.

I agree.
 
Goober
#47
I wonder why there have not been charges of mass murder, crimes against humanity. Who is holding these up?

www.aljazeera.com/news/middle...959617479.html (external - login to view)

Hadi al-Abdallah, a Homs-based activist, told the AFP news agency the international outcry over the deaths appeared only to have strengthened the government’s determination to eliminate all opposition in the city.

"The more the condemnations pile on, the heavier the bombing becomes," he said.

Abdullah said there was evidence that the makeshift media centre where the journalists were killed was deliberately targeted by government forces.

"We are sure that the centre was targeted, because 11 rockets struck in and around it," he said.

"The regime forces intercepted a transmission signal."

The Syrian government made no effort to deny that its forces had fired the lethal rounds.
 
MHz
#48
I believe one report said the journalists that were recently killed were victims caught in a crossfire. If you sneak into a country do you 'automatically' float over to the neighborhood that is about to be questioned to see if their papers are in order or not.

You do support enforcing park rules, by all means, and such right? Apparently a lot were not in order.

Why not wait till the 'operation' is over and see what the information gives out. They kept quiet about what was going on in that assassination they were falsely accused of as having a part in, with so much video available letting 'portions out' would show the courts just what actually took place. I'm all for that.

Egypt made the leap from a govt based on skulduggery to one being groomed to be based on, well .... skulduggery Not a great leap in any direction really, however with the new arrests and the courts free the PM trials these might be somewhat faster and more public as they are of the international flavor rather than one of internal shame.
 
Goober
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

I believe one report said the journalists that were recently killed were victims caught in a crossfire. If you sneak into a country do you 'automatically' float over to the neighborhood that is about to be questioned to see if their papers are in order or not.
.

Deliberate targeting of civilians is a war crime is it not. Under your logic, any illegals can be killed legally.
 
MHz
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Yeah. It's still ME countries looking into ME affairs. Other countries should butt out, IMO. Especially if they have only self-serving agendas.

And if other countries , like the French, asking for POW status after being captured?? I would say what war, you must be a spy instead and if they sut 'off' for any reason it is not a trip like 'off to' the best jail in town. Left alone to their own devices but televised or netivised . Part of the Court UN. From initial investigation to impact statements on anniversaries out as far as 20 years, then 'get over it already', even the skunks are vomiting.

Be interesting to see their comment cross the screens during the 'treaty trials and tribulations' in our own little court room right next door. Hezbullah should be able to book the two top floors of most any hotel, at NATO's expense, Judge and defendants in the daytime, nightime, same think-tank to, well ..... whatever those things are for, co-citizens cooped up in a 'hotel' with room service and an open bar ... tea room, ... as the trials will,be manufactured to run 20 years and in that time the whole families will have had the shortcut course in how the west was won, .... and then lost and then sued, ...... and sued ...... The education learned in those years would make for specialty courses in 'how to null and void a treaty using their own tools'.

We don't mind broadcasting the hell out of it when the headlines 'flatter us'.

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Deliberate targeting of civilians is a war crime is it not. Under your logic, any illegals can be killed legally.

Say no more, really a lawyer at this point would say. 'say no more'.

Israeli troops fire on Syrian protesters in Golan Heights - YouTube (external - login to view)

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

"The more the condemnations pile on, the heavier the bombing becomes," he said.

Abdullah said there was evidence that the makeshift media centre where the journalists were killed was deliberately targeted by government forces.

"We are sure that the centre was targeted, because 11 rockets struck in and around it," he said.

"The regime forces intercepted a transmission signal."

The Syrian government made no effort to deny that its forces had fired the lethal rounds.

All you have to do is pull out the list they gave you to read if the 'radio ever went dead'.

The "French journalists; just happened to end up outside the compound whet French CIA types were holed up in the 100's. waiting for 'orders'. I bet she got the parch in a war zone, not a fast learner either, now both eyes are black. RIP

Obviously they walked in on an ongoing Syrian Military operation, we would call it a mop up.

I would think the operations were busted by Syria if we see a lull in the killings and bombings and that would lessen the war-drums on Iran cause Israel can't take on Iran and Stria, no matter who their partners are. Just as soon as Hilliary said something about the 'rebels' getting aid the whole house of cards comes tumbling down, that's not the first mess up for her, she lost a dress in Haiti that closed down the relief effort of hours so a certain photo could be taken. An inspired one like the one they tried to fake in this site. ( I bookmarked it when the STL was just about to take a 'short' break, It's right there if nothing else.

 
L Gilbert
#51
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

And if other countries , like the French, asking for POW status after being captured??

If other countries what?

The French? Since when are the French in the Arab League?
Quote:

I would say what war, you must be a spy instead

Good for you.
Quote:

and if they sut 'off' for any reason

I don't know what "and if they sut 'off' " means.
Quote:

it is not a trip like 'off to' the best jail in town. Left alone to their own devices but televised or netivised . Part of the Court UN. From initial investigation to impact statements on anniversaries out as far as 20 years, then 'get over it already', even the skunks are vomiting.

Impressive. I have no idea what you posted here.
 
Cliffy
+1
#52
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

If other countries what?

The French? Since when are the French in the Arab League? Good for you. I don't know what "and if they sut 'off' " means. Impressive. I have no idea what you posted here.

You are not the only one confused by his posts. Most of them end up looking like a dog's breakfast. A lot of them remind me of old VCR manuals translated by a Japanese dude using a dictionary and no understanding of English syntax.
 
MHz
#53
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

If other countries what?

The French? Since when are the French in the Arab League? Good for you. I don't know what "and if they sut 'off' " means. Impressive. I have no idea what you posted here.

Let me clear up the typo's, sorry for the confusion on your part, cliffy is confused all the time even when spelling errors and other typo's are absent.

If people from countries other than France will be begging for POW status. The links will verify that is what is promoted. You should try them sometime, they check for mistrakes like that, know what I mean??
The French have been in Lebanon since almost the end of WWII, why do you think the place is in constant turmoil, without that their troops would have had to leave decades ago. That would be 'say off' in the torture realm, if they say 'off' you may be losing a body part rather than being transferred to a 'nicer place'.

Why are the French CIA in the Syria and I assume the ones with military ranks would be the commando/terrorist wing of their military in the country being captured while meeting with journalists that sneaked into the country.

Leave Syria alone but but all the cases before the UN Courts so the cases could be broadcast worldwide since treason would be some charges that stem from international incidents.

Thanks for giving me the chance to clear a few things up, if you need more just ask. Same thing I've said to cliffy several times but he just likes to stay confused I guess since asking for clarity is never taken advantage of so far and now I'm rather pressed for time to be bothered even if he did do a follow-up question..
 
EagleSmack
#54
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Thanks for giving me the chance to clear a few things up, if you need more just ask.

You actually cleared things up with this post?
 
MHz
#55
You do realize you answered your own question don't you?
 
L Gilbert
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Let me clear up the typo's, sorry for the confusion on your part, cliffy is confused all the time even when spelling errors and other typo's are absent.

If people from countries other than France will be begging for POW status. The links will verify that is what is promoted. You should try them sometime, they check for mistrakes like that, know what I mean??
The French have been in Lebanon since almost the end of WWII, why do you think the place is in constant turmoil, without that their troops would have had to leave decades ago. That would be 'say off' in the torture realm, if they say 'off' you may be losing a body part rather than being transferred to a 'nicer place'.

Why are the French CIA in the Syria and I assume the ones with military ranks would be the commando/terrorist wing of their military in the country being captured while meeting with journalists that sneaked into the country.

Leave Syria alone but but all the cases before the UN Courts so the cases could be broadcast worldwide since treason would be some charges that stem from international incidents.

Oh. That's a bit more lucid, thanks.

Quote:

Thanks for giving me the chance to clear a few things up, if you need more just ask. Same thing I've said to cliffy several times but he just likes to stay confused I guess since asking for clarity is never taken advantage of so far and now I'm rather pressed for time to be bothered even if he did do a follow-up question..

You're welcome.
 
MHz
#57
Foiled again, I was hoping for a 'lot more lucid'. Gives me something to work on but don't hold your breath as understanding is a two way street, right cliffy?

Does having spies caught behind the border even count as a black-mark any longer? How about 1500?
 
L Gilbert
#58
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Foiled again, I was hoping for a 'lot more lucid'.

ok It's a lot more lucid.

Feel better? lol

Quote:

Does having spies caught behind the border even count as a black-mark any longer?

From my POV, yep.
Quote:

How about 1500?

ok
 
MHz
#59
Now say it in a non-patronizing way. lol
 
L Gilbert
+1
#60
Quote: Originally Posted by MHzView Post

Now say it in a non-patronizing way. lol

ok It's a lot more lucid.
(blue for sincerity)
Feel better? lol
 

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