Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Machjo

#31

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 5th, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman

The masses control inflation by making decisions when to buy if companies want to stay in business they won’t gouge the consumer.

If you raise tariffs, you may be reducing competition for certain specialized companies, though even that might be possible to regulate with enough regulation and the added bureaucracy to enforce the rules.

Beyond that though, there is also the reintroduction of make-work jobs mainly via the shipping industry. For example, imagine a company with a factory in Seattle and one in Montreal. With free trade, the company would be smart to reduce costs by having its Seattle factory cover the Western North American market, and the Montreal plant the Eastern market. The moment you reintroduce protectionism, both plants suddeenly have to pay more to ship their products further afield in each respective country, thus pushing shipping costs up.

Does this create jobs for truckers? Sure it does. Does it increase national wealth? Absolutely not, since those truckers are not producing anything of economic value, and considering that they're doing a job that would be totally redundant in the context of free trade, we must conclude therefore that those are purely make-work jobs, thus a burden on the economy, the costs being passed down to consumers.

While I can agree that protectionism creates jobs, it does not create wealth. Free trade does kill jobs indeed as it eliminates such make-work jobs especially in the shipping and other such industries, and definitely governments have to deal with this reality by providing quality trades and professional training programmes for the unemployed to help them re-enter the job market in the new economically productive jobs that are created by people spending their extra money to buy other products and services that they would otherwise have spent on the extra shipping overhead costs for products under protectionism.

CDNBear

#32

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 5th, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

If you raise tariffs, you may be reducing competition for certain specialized companies, though even that might be possible to regulate with enough regulation and the added bureaucracy to enforce the rules.

You sound like Buzz Hargrove there.

Machjo

#33

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 5th, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

You sound like Buzz Hargrove there.

Who?

CDNBear

#34

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 5th, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

Who?

Buzz Hargrove.

Machjo

#35

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 5th, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear

Buzz Hargrove.

OK, I've just read a little about him on Wiki.

But I think I made the point that while protectionism may create jobs, it does not create the kind of economically productive and enriching jobs we want, but rather make-work jobs mostly in shipping, resulting in an economic burden. Add to that that it can also lead to reduced economies of scale for certain specialized and niche companies, resulting in greater inefficiencies and expenses there too as they establish two separate national plants where a North American one would have been cheaper. Again, it may create jobs, but all make-work jobs that add zilch to the GDP.

Liberalman

#36

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 5th, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by SLM

Well they keep all our monopolies chugging along don't they?

In my opinion government, in all it's guises, should keep their nose out of business for the most part. The only usefulness of regulations that I can see would be in areas such as health & safety or issues surrounding work hours and such.

All government does is muddy up the waters. After all they (government) is not exactly known for their stellar business acumen are they?

The people are the government

Tonington

#37 Top Rated Post

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 5th, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman

The people are the government

Almost right.

The people are the government's piggy bank.

mentalfloss

#38

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 5th, 2012

Canada's jobless rate hits 9-month high
Economy adds just 2,300 jobs, far fewer than the 24,500 (!!!) expected

Canada's unemployment rate rose to 7.6 per cent in January according to Statistics Canada, a 0.1 per cent increase, as 23,700 more people searched for work.

The Canadian economy added only 2,300 jobs last month, according to figures released Friday. That fell far below the 24,500 jobs that economists had predicted would be created.

Last month's numbers were disappointing for anyone looking for work across the country, with the unemployment rate rising in Atlantic Canada and Ontario in January and little changed in the other provinces.

Arguing against austerity

The weak job numbers come as federal and provincial governments are planning to table budgets with deep spending cuts and austerity measures.

"Laying off public sector workers and cutting public spending that supports private sector jobs threatens Canada's soft labour market," said United Steelworkers economist Erin Weir, "Four months of rising unemployment mean the priority should be on job creation rather than cutbacks."

Other analysts echoed this sentiment, with David Madani, Canada economist at Capital Economics, writing in a note to clients that continuing with aggressive cuts "potentially risks injuring the economy."

Bright Spots

There were some bright spots, with an increase in private and public sector employment offsetting a drop of 37,000 in self-employment. Self-employment jobs are generally considered lower quality than employment by the private or public sector.

January was the third month in the last four in which the unemployment rate increased since last September's 7.2 per cent post-recession low.

Jobs lost in construction, professional services

The construction industry experienced a loss of 13,700 jobs, the second straight month of declines for the sector. The drop highlights Canada's "vulnerability to a slowdown in housing," according to Weir.

The professional, scientific and technical services industry lost a record number of jobs, with 44,800 fewer jobs in January. "This substantial loss of jobs in a well-paid area is troubling," said Weir.

Weak outlook for 2012

After a strong start in 2011, employment in Canada has largely stalled since last summer, with fewer than 15,000 jobs being added in the last six months.

Over the last 12 months, the economy has produced 129,000 new jobs, or a 0.7 per cent gain in employment, one of the weakest records in a non-recessionary period in many years.

Compared with the same period one year ago, the number of full-time workers rose 1.2 per cent, or by 170,000. Meanwhile, the number of part-time workers slipped by 1.2 per cent, or by 41,000.

The drop in job creation has coincided with generally weaker economic conditions and declining business confidence due to uncertainty in the global outlook. "These figures are consistent with an economy fighting to keep its head above water," said Derek Burleton, deputy chief economist at TD Bank.

Most economists believe conditions in Canada, as well as job creation, will remain weak throughout 2012.

"We continue to expect average monthly job gains of about 10,000 per month," said Burleton, adding that job creation will be "more heavily weighted to the second half of the year."

Meanwhile, the U.S. added 243,000 jobs in January, dropping the unemployment rate there to the lowest level since 2009.

Canada's jobless rate hits 9-month high - Business - CBC News

Liberalman

#39

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 5th, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

If you raise tariffs, you may be reducing competition for certain specialized companies, though even that might be possible to regulate with enough regulation and the added bureaucracy to enforce the rules.
Beyond that though, there is also the reintroduction of make-work jobs mainly via the shipping industry. For example, imagine a company with a factory in Seattle and one in Montreal. With free trade, the company would be smart to reduce costs by having its Seattle factory cover the Western North American market, and the Montreal plant the Eastern market. The moment you reintroduce protectionism, both plants suddeenly have to pay more to ship their products further afield in each respective country, thus pushing shipping costs up.
Does this create jobs for truckers? Sure it does. Does it increase national wealth? Absolutely not, since those truckers are not producing anything of economic value, and considering that they're doing a job that would be totally redundant in the context of free trade, we must conclude therefore that those are purely make-work jobs, thus a burden on the economy, the costs being passed down to consumers.
While I can agree that protectionism creates jobs, it does not create wealth. Free trade does kill jobs indeed as it eliminates such make-work jobs especially in the shipping and other such industries, and definitely governments have to deal with this reality by providing quality trades and...
Quote has been trimmed, See full post:

WOW, do you have a hangover?

Did you really think this through or is it just a robotic response.

The truckers are not producing value? They are taking the load to market on time, which is part of the costs of the products they carry.

Make work jobs? Sorry but if there is a need and people are willing to pay for it is not a make work job.

Like I said the global economy model is broken and with all the companies that moved the jobs out of Canada for cheaper pastures means that new businesses can be created.

Jobs do create wealth and the sooner our Conservative federal government starts believing it and puts back the tariffs on foreign made goods the sooner this country can get their jobs back and be a vibrant economy

Quote: Originally Posted by Tonington

Almost right.

The people are the government's piggy bank.

The people are the government and they pay for benefits that they can enjoy.

Machjo

#40

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 5th, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman

WOW, do you have a hangover?

Did you really think this through or is it just a robotic response.

The truckers are not producing value? They are taking the load to market on time, which is part of the costs of the products they carry.

If they are shipping a product from Montreal to Vancouver when they could have shipped the same product from Seattle to Vancouver, how is that not a make-work job?

Quote:

Make work jobs? Sorry but if there is a need and people are willing to pay for it is not a make work job.

But this is a need artificially created by protectionism. If we passed a law requiring all cell phone companies to hire acrobats to entertain guests at their shops, there would suddenly be a demand for that too, and of course the cost would be passed on to the customer.

Quote:

Jobs do create wealth

Not if it's make-work jobs. If the government hire the unemployed to dig and fill holes all day long, that will create plenty of work, but no wealth. In fact, it would be an insult to the unemployed.

Quote:

and the sooner our Conservative federal government starts believing it and puts back the tariffs on foreign made goods the sooner this country can get their jobs back and be a vibrant economy

We need to create jobs, not beggar them from abroad. Do you honestly believe there would be no retaliation for our protectionism? To create jobs (not beggar other countries for them but actually crate them), we need to provide the unemployed with the education they need for the jobs already out there. So yes I can agree with greater government funding for trades and professional education for the unemployed, but not beggaring other countries for jobs.

taxslave

#41

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 5th, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by Liberalman

WOW, do you have a hangover?

Did you really think this through or is it just a robotic response.

The truckers are not producing value? They are taking the load to market on time, which is part of the costs of the products they carry.

Make work jobs? Sorry but if there is a need and people are willing to pay for it is not a make work job.

Like I said the global economy model is broken and with all the companies that moved the jobs out of Canada for cheaper pastures means that new businesses can be created.

Jobs do create wealth and the sooner our Conservative federal government starts believing it and puts back the tariffs on foreign made goods the sooner this country can get their jobs back and be a vibrant economy

The people are the government and they pay for benefits that they can enjoy.

Only resource industries create wealth. All others simply recycle money. This is known as First Dollar. Any government spending wether on public employees or contract work is a drain on the economy, especially when the government is in a deficit position since nearly all government revenue is taxation on money that is already earned and could be spent elsewhere.

Machjo

#42

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 5th, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave

Only resource industries create wealth.

Incorrect. The knowledge industry creates wealth too. Certainly you'll agree that a computer is worth more than the raw resources from which it's made.

A computer program has value too, even though it is not even tangible.

L Gilbert

#43

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 5th, 2012

Actually gov't money is just recirculated. It doesn't generate any wealth economy-wise, although it can for individuals (bureaucrats, politicians, an occasional company, as in grants and the like, etc.).

Quote: Originally Posted by Machjo

Incorrect. The knowledge industry creates wealth too. Certainly you'll agree that a computer is worth more than the raw resources from which it's made.

A computer program has value too, even though it is not even tangible.

Yup, it's called value-added. Same for heavy equipment, clothing, etc.

dumpthemonarchy

#44

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 7th, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave

Couldn't find Regina on my Vancouver Island road map. Is that south of Nanaimo? Thought it might be another name for Victoria but that is too far south to travel.LOL

Dumpy: That is old news. As most people know stats can does not consider you unemployed once EI runs out. Much like the inflation rate is about double what they claim because they do not count volatile priced essentials like gas and food in their basket of goods. Smoke and Mirrors.

Old tricks and cynical news. Always good to remind people the economy is complicated and many things are going on at the same time as the economy moves in different directions for different people and provinces.

Many of the family class immigrants don't qualify for the jobs mentioned. They move to the big cities and stay there. They're looking for basic jobs and lowering wages as their language and general skills are limited. Very good for capital. But not that good for the country or taxpayers.

Atlantic (white) Canadians and rural (aboriginal) Canadians get the most benefit from working the EI system to their advantage and can continue being layabouts and avoid work. Not so good for capital. But not that good for the country or taxpayers.

SLM

#45

Re: Unemployment is actually worse than numbers show

Feb 7th, 2012

Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchy

Old tricks and cynical news. Always good to remind people the economy is complicated and many things are going on at the same time as the economy moves in different directions for different people and provinces.

Many of the family class immigrants don't qualify for the jobs mentioned. They move to the big cities and stay there. They're looking for basic jobs and lowering wages as their language and general skills are limited. Very good for capital. But not that good for the country or taxpayers.

Atlantic (white) Canadians and rural (aboriginal) Canadians get the most benefit from working the EI system to their advantage and can continue being layabouts and avoid work. Not so good for capital. But not that good for the country or taxpayers.

You're getting lazy. Usually you take pot shots at immigrants and aboriginals in separate threads. Pressed for time?

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