Is the Government Addicted to Gambling Revenues?Who's Regulating the Regulators?


Omicron
#31
Quote: Originally Posted by GreenFish66View Post

So who's sellin these nuts to the animals inorder to buy the Beer and Bread? What if the people don't like nuts?

So what your sayin is -- Got no beer; got no bread; you grow nuts! (?)

Huh?

Lemme guess... you didn't know modern people started growing grain in order to stuff into clay pots to discover coming out of that bread from the yeasts of bread (which the women loved) and beer from the yeasts of beer (which the bored guys loved after having been hammered down from being great warriors into being sedentary farmers).

That means you didn't know how after cooking meat you didn't know that stuffing stuff into clay pots caused changes because of yeast.

Question: What would be better... to send your kind to another planet in order to get that off the earth, or send those who got it to another planet in order for them to start over with a clean planet while the ook-ook eek-eeks feel such joy for being total monkeys as they take planet earth down.

It's a hard decision.

Let mother earth take care of it, or let us shorcut.

The only way I can think to make it fair, even though it is more expensive, is to take all species worth preserving to another planet while the idiots here destroy themselves, and then bring life back.

Still... I can't help feeling like there's something wrong with that picture...

You guys seriously don't know what happened in the heavenly mind when it saw self-awareness come out of dust.

Notice how the legend of creation does not involve an otter diving down to the bottom of an ocean to come back with some mud to make earth from? Notice how the legend of creation does not involve a turtle swirling over an infinite ocean with a continent on its back?

Notice how the only thing you babies needed other than to be loved (which I have figured out the string theory of) was to break heart over the timeline?

Starting with... it says that birds preceded the mammals, which is weird until you learn that birds are dinosaurs.

Anyway... seriously... compare the Moses Genesis creation story, apply it against the minds of your ancestors, and compare that to the story of an otter building the world from a handful of mud, stop complaining, and start paying attention to Chinese ambassadors having studied history capable pf seeing the time-line and don't want it to go that way nearly as much as they'd like to colonize planets and the galaxy, which is exactly when one would expect Wall Street to step in selling snake oil, but oops...

They would like to trade more than mercury/lead laced toys, said trick they learned from Japan...

They are total bully assholes having been deprived of spiritual leveling. If you put out your hand to shake it they will swat it aside if they think you are a twit, such that in that respect maybe they are human, or maybe they are imitating western civilization as seen by them.

That can be played to counter-measure reconnection.

If they want to build all the cheep stuff like Japan used to do, then there is a way for them to build rocket ships to colonize the solar system, using all the resource and polluting planet earth on a level that Japanese never could.

In the west, dork-hole MBAs incapable of doing anything other than take down the global economy like a jar of fruit-flies sucking Lucifer's dick are idiots leaving Chinese with no direction in spite of all the military power, while I know from return that Chinese see it too and don't want it. Something about our university system combined with ancient hiring practiced put us back to the old ways of dummies having important jobs in order to not progress civilization.

tunes.digitalock.com/tijuanataxi.mp3 (external - login to view)

Ever notice how once being outed, the harder good tries to make things right, the harder the enemy fights to take another trillion dollars from that which they exploit, in order to be granted a few more years before Lucifer eats their souls?

That explains the bad attitude of demons. They know they're going to be eaten, so all they can do is bring in as many others to be eaten first before it is their turn.
Last edited by Omicron; Jan 27th, 2012 at 04:37 AM..
 
GreenFish66
#32
Time Govs get out of the Gambling Biz..So they can better Protect/ Deal with/for/to; The people..

----------------------------

Well, Omicron .You said alot ..Some which I would agree to ..some not..Ultimately..The best scenario to me , would be ; to Explore and Inhabit other Alternative Worlds and Planets ; while still having a Safe/Secure/Loving Home, to back to, for supper..

----------------------------------------

Cheers to Beer, Bread and Gamblin' with Nuts ...
Last edited by GreenFish66; Jan 27th, 2012 at 04:06 AM..
 
Niflmir
+1
#33
Wait, so the government is making a profit on something and we want to sell that to corporations?

The usual argument for selling off crown corporations is because of the government dragging its feet, not running a business really profitably. Since when were private corporations a good example of virtue?
 
GreenFish66
#34
The problem is Gov. is selling-PROMOTING Smokes/Liquor/Gambling - For a Profit!..
This Biz..should be left to private corporations...So the Government can Do what it is suppose to do ..Protect/Be held accountable to / work for/with - It's people ...

Can't honestly be called a Responsible/Honest/ Accountable Gov.. If your hookin' people to Smokin'/Drinkin'/Gamblin'

Let the private sector run these Wants/Addictions..So Gov.can Properly Regulate it;... Be moreTransparent..
_________________

I wonder if Casinos are truly sustainable/profitable; without overly/overtly causing unnecessary harm to Its people .. ?

What happens when gamblers run out of Money?

Are Governments addicted to Smoking/Drinking/Gambling Revenues?

Who is regulating the regulators?

Economy/Gov can be evaluated by how it runs its Gov.Biz.


------- Gaming/Gambling is no fun, for anyone, when run, strictly, by Big Gov.---------
 
damngrumpy
+2
#35
Two things we like to blame the weather man and the Government. How can you blame
the government for gambling? Even if the government banned gambling and never
allowed it in the first place, gambling would still exist. So essentially they allow it and tax
it.
My question is, why allow gambling, drinking and smoking, and at the same time, not
allow prostitution, pot and other social ills and tax them too? We changed things recently
in terms of history. Pot was ignored as was cocaine until anti booze laws were repealing
in the mid nineteen thirties. If governments want money go after the untaxed social sins
that people engage in anyway? Instead we keep them illegal and fill prisons with people
who are not really criminals they just refuse to conform to the social norm. More of the
safety net revenue could be made by taxing this stuff than spending money on prisons.
All the new prison won't house killers and bank robbers, those crimes are going down.
The new jails will house those who have some pot or engage in risky behaviour and why?
Fear and votes that is why.
 
GreenFish66
+2
#36
Governments should not run Businesses...Especially highly addictive ones, that they themselves, are relying on/addicted to...

Reasons are obvious...

Government is there to act with/for the people; To ensure what is Necessary/Needed.... Not to feed their unquenchtionable/unsatisfiable/unsustainable ever wanting hunger for ever More....That's the job of business...( Preferably Green/Clean Tech Biz)

The Governments Gaming/Gambling.Smoking ...Drinking... Business practises , conflict with the responsibility it has to ensure the saftey/security/Well-Being/Health(?) of its people..

Government is there to ensure We, The People, get what is necessary/needed...Business is there to give what is wanted......

_____________________

------- Gaming/Gambling is no fun, for anyone, when run, strictly, by Big Gov.---------
Last edited by GreenFish66; Jan 30th, 2012 at 11:56 PM..
 
Machjo
#37
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

I would like you to explain more about your view regarding governments not "owning" golf courses because they are not a necessity.

Swimming pools, playgrounds, skating rinks, parks....none of these things are necessities and yet most are owned by municipal governments. Are you saying we should get rid of them (which is the only logical option as no private enterprise is going to make money with a playground or pool)?

Yes, except maybe school playgrounds. Charities could take over. After all, over time we could pay off the debt and then gradually reduce taxes. This would give us more pocket change to give to charity than we do now.

Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

I'm not saying all corporations are bad, but in North America, people should understand that there is more damage caused by unfettered capitalism than government spending. That is, a completely free market without any bounds whatsoever. It's the worse evil right now, as a lot of corporations can hide beneath the media scrutiny (Monsanto, Cargill), while a government's actions are constantly the focus of media attention.

In any case, in response to the OP.. there are many watchdogs and ombudsmans that monitor and scrutinize government policy. This kind of transparency can bring some accountability when the next election comes.

But he did hit on a very good point - in that government still requires more accountability and needs to deliver more transparency. A lot of people get distracted by the size of government. That's a red herring. The size of government is irrelevant if they can duly respect the will of the people, and be held accountable if they don't.

Corporations don't have the same level of democratic scrutiny. People recognize their actions has perfectly legitimate and ethical as long as they make a profit. That's why a healthy, representative government is so important.

I do agree there needs to be more democracy in the private sector too, and am in favour of co-determination laws similar to Germany's.

And I agree that the size of the government matters less than what it actually comprises. Gambling should not be among its properties though.

Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Two things we like to blame the weather man and the Government. How can you blame
the government for gambling? Even if the government banned gambling and never
allowed it in the first place, gambling would still exist. So essentially they allow it and tax
it.
My question is, why allow gambling, drinking and smoking, and at the same time, not
allow prostitution, pot and other social ills and tax them too? We changed things recently
in terms of history. Pot was ignored as was cocaine until anti booze laws were repealing
in the mid nineteen thirties. If governments want money go after the untaxed social sins
that people engage in anyway? Instead we keep them illegal and fill prisons with people
who are not really criminals they just refuse to conform to the social norm. More of the
safety net revenue could be made by taxing this stuff than spending money on prisons.
All the new prison won't house killers and bank robbers, those crimes are going down.
The new jails will house those who have some pot or engage in risky behaviour and why?
Fear and votes that is why.

There is a difference between the government tolerating gambling and the government engaging it it itself. From my understanding the lottery corporations are often government-owned, but correct me if I'm wrong.

tolerating it and pushing it are very different things.
 
Cannuck
#38
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Yes, except maybe school playgrounds. Charities could take over. After all, over time we could pay off the debt and then gradually reduce taxes. This would give us more pocket change to give to charity than we do now.

Where are the charities to get the funds to manage these things? How much do you think it costs to run an arena for a year?
 
Machjo
#39
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Where are the charities to get the funds to manage these things? How much do you think it costs to run an arena for a year?

The charities would get the funds either from donations, user fees, or both, just as the government gets it from taxpayers, who incidentally are the same people for the most part, except that this way those who use it most are likely to pay more for it.
 
JLM
#40
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

Yes, except maybe school playgrounds. Charities could take over. After all, over time we could pay off the debt and then gradually reduce taxes. This would give us more pocket change to give to charity than we do now.



I do agree there needs to be more democracy in the private sector too, and am in favour of co-determination laws similar to Germany's.

And I agree that the size of the government matters less than what it actually comprises. Gambling should not be among its properties though.



There is a difference between the government tolerating gambling and the government engaging it it itself. From my understanding the lottery corporations are often government-owned, but correct me if I'm wrong.

tolerating it and pushing it are very different things.

To the best of my knowledge the Government doesn't OWN any casinos in British Columbia. The four casinos in this area are owned by a Corporation, controlled by the Gov't and taxed and the proceeds going for good causes like health and sports activities for youth.

Lake City Casino Kelowna Owner (external - login to view)
 
Machjo
#41
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

To the best of my knowledge the Government doesn't OWN any casinos in British Columbia. The four casinos in this area are owned by a Corporation, controlled by the Gov't and taxed and the proceeds going for good causes like health and sports activities for youth.

Lake City Casino Kelowna Owner (external - login to view)

What about Lotto 6/49? If I'm not mistaken, it is government owned, no?
 
Cannuck
#42
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

The charities would get the funds either from donations, user fees, or both, just as the government gets it from taxpayers, who incidentally are the same people for the most part, except that this way those who use it most are likely to pay more for it.

Well you answered the first question but not the second.

Incidentally, gaming revenue is donated money as everybody has the choice to gamble or not to gamble.
 
Machjo
#43
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Well you answered the first question but not the second.

Incidentally, gaming revenue is donated money as everybody has the choice to gamble or not to gamble.

But for addicts, it's a distorted choice. But at least the casinos are privately-owned and discouraged via taxation and such. Maybe we should do the same with Lotto 6/49.
 
Cannuck
#44
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

But for addicts, it's a distorted choice.

It's still a choice.
 
Machjo
#45
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

It's still a choice.

But you'd think the government of all institutions would not exploit their addiction. I guess that depends on one's view of the role of government in society.
 
L Gilbert
#46
Well, for one thing, I sure don't like gov'ts that nanny. I don't even like gov'ts that think they know what I need more than I do.
 
Cannuck
+1
#47
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

But you'd think the government of all institutions would not exploit their addiction. I guess that depends on one's view of the role of government in society.

We've been collecting sin taxes for quite some time. Are you suggesting we get rid of those? We should just drop the tax on booze just because some folks are alcoholics? I know a guy that is addicted to cars. He has six and likes to cruise. I guess we should stop taxing gas to help the poor bugger. I personally can't make it through the week without water. I've been hooked on the stuff for years. I guess I shouldn't have to pay my utility bill. I'm also a golf addict. I guess I should be allowed to write off my golfing expenses.
 
Machjo
#48
Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

We've been collecting sin taxes for quite some time. Are you suggesting we get rid of those? We should just drop the tax on booze just because some folks are alcoholics? I know a guy that is addicted to cars. He has six and likes to cruise. I guess we should stop taxing gas to help the poor bugger. I personally can't make it through the week without water. I've been hooked on the stuff for years. I guess I shouldn't have to pay my utility bill. I'm also a golf addict. I guess I should be allowed to write off my golfing expenses.

We don't own Labatts or any cigarette company. We tax them to discourage it. As for Lotto649, we own it and so in a sence are providing it.
 
Cannuck
#49
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

We don't own Labatts or any cigarette company. We tax them to discourage it. As for Lotto649, we own it and so in a sence are providing it.

Hair splitting at it's finest.
 
Ron in Regina
#50
Quote: Originally Posted by MachjoView Post

We don't own Labatts or any cigarette company. We tax them to discourage it. As for Lotto649, we own it and so in a sence are providing it.

If Gov't "really" wanted to discourage booze & smoke consumtion...it
would be banned, not taxed. We don't own Labatts or any cigarette
company but who profits more directly from the sale of a case of beer
or a pack of smokes? The Government through taxation or the
manufacturer?

Yes, arguements can be made that the taxation is to offset future costs
regarding healthcare, etc...but it's really just a another form of income
like Lotto649 or casinos, etc...isn't it?
 
GreenFish66
#51
There were privately owned horse tracks in Ontario once upon a time ...Apparently they weren't profitable and were closed down...

I wonder what the government would do if they realized Casinos were no longer profitable to them?

Would they close them down?..Sell them off?..Or ..Would they pull the shades down, do some shady financial suffling, stack the deck; load the dice ; lower payouts; anything they had to ; to ensure the jackpot winnings kept flowing in, continuing to feed their addiction to this relied upon revenue stream....No matter what the cost ?

It's hard to Realize/ Admit that you are addicted ..when you are addicted...Even Harder to Admit your Addicted and Wrong; when you are the government ...

Government should Fund/Reward/Promote....Healthy/Productive/Needed/Necessary/Sustainable/ Programs and Lifestyle Choices..( ) ; Because , It is in the best interest of the Government, The Country, and its People ...

Unhealthy/Wanted/ Adult Entertainment/Guilty Pleasures(?), should be left for Business to profit from ...Regulated and Taxed appropriately by Government for/with the people .

If the Business is not Viable/Profitable ...It will fail and change( with transparent Governmental oversight)
..Or
It will fail; and close..

------- Gaming/Gambling is no fun, for anyone, when run, strictly, by Big Gov.---------
Last edited by GreenFish66; Feb 2nd, 2012 at 01:50 AM..
 
GreenFish66
#52
Is the government exploiting the addiction of others for Self Interest/Personal Profit?
Aren't they elected to Serve N' Protect the people ?

Justice Minister to the Canadian Club of Toronto on Crime Bill ...Canadian Club, January 13 2012 (external - login to view) - 15 min 35 sec.. ( whole speech is worth listening to)

Justice Minister - "......The kinds of offenders that we are targeting are the ones who are in the business of exploiting the addiction of others for personal profit..".

....Admittedly I took the ministers comment slightly out of context( was watching video for many reasons); BUT, To serve and Protect the people is part of what governments should do..

Brought the question to mind ....Are Gambling Govs exploiting the addictions of others for their own self interest/personal profits?..More specifically when it comes to revenues gained by Gaming? ..

Is it time Government sells off Gaming industry to independent Business; so they can be more transparent and accountable to the People they are elected to serve; protect/detour/guide them from harmful practises toward healthier more sustainable ones ?

Global Toronto | Government to sell off LCBO real estate in Toronto, says Duncan -

" Under review by the government is an annual subsidy of $345 million for horse racing. The money comes from OLG slots and is often used to sweeten the purse for races. A ministry spokesperson says most of that money ends up leaving the province anyway, so the government is considering chopping it in the budget this March "

-- Is a good start

____________________________

www.canadianclub.org/Home.aspx (external - login to view)
Last edited by GreenFish66; Feb 14th, 2012 at 02:11 PM..
 
Bar Sinister
#53
For those who don't remember or are not old enough to know bout Canada's pre-legalized gambling days here is a little heads up.

First, the fact that legalized gambling in the form of casinos and government lotteries did not exist does not mean that there was no gambling. A great deal of gambling occurred out of sight of the regulators and went untaxed. A great deal more occurred in the form of betting on horses and buying various lottery tickets from recognized charities. And then there were the frequent flyers who headed off to Las Vegas and Atlantic City to give away their cash to foreigners. Still another gambling drain was the purchasing of Irish Sweepstake tickets, which were sold coast to coast. The Irish quite enjoyed the influx of Canadian dollars each year, but I don't remember any benefits for Canada.

Gambling has always been a social ill, but preventing it may be impossible. The best that can probably be hoped for is to direct some of the proceeds from gambling into government coffers where it can be used to provide government services.
 
GreenFish66
#54
I don't disagree with your comment Bar Sinister...Yet Gaming should be privatized; left for business to run.....Not run by Governments - Too great a chance for corruption .

Running Business Wants...Is not the Job of government...Governments job is to regulate/serve/protect/work with/for the people, on their behalf..Hard to do when your addicted to (declining) gambling revenues.

Unhealthy/Wanted/ Adult Entertainment/Guilty Pleasures/ potentially addictive activities(?), should be left for Business to profit from ...Regulated and Taxed appropriately by Government for/with the people .

Government should Fund/Reward/Promote....Healthy/Productive/Needed/Necessary/Sustainable/ Programs and Lifestyle Choices ; Because , It is in the best interest of the Government, The Country, and its People ...

Government should not be in the Gambling Business...because

------- Gaming/Gambling is no fun, for anyone, when run, strictly, by Big Gov.---------
 
JLM
#55
Is there a difference between "being run by Government" and "being regulated by Government"?
 
Bar Sinister
#56
Quote: Originally Posted by GreenFish66View Post

I don't disagree with your comment Bar Sinister...Yet Gaming should be privatized; left for business to run.....Not run by Governments - Too great a chance for corruption .

Running Business Wants...Is not the Job of government...Governments job is to regulate/serve/protect/work with/for the people, on their behalf..Hard to do when your addicted to (declining) gambling revenues.

Unhealthy/Wanted/ Adult Entertainment/Guilty Pleasures/ potentially addictive activities(?), should be left for Business to profit from ...Regulated and Taxed appropriately by Government for/with the people .

Government should Fund/Reward/Promote....Healthy/Productive/Needed/Necessary/Sustainable/ Programs and Lifestyle Choices ; Because , It is in the best interest of the Government, The Country, and its People ...

Government should not be in the Gambling Business...because

------- Gaming/Gambling is no fun, for anyone, when run, strictly, by Big Gov.---------

I am well aware of the evils of gambling, but I see no advantages in letting private businesses profit from that vice. The mere fact that gambling is an evil is a very strong argument in allowing government to be in charge of the business. If it is going to ruin people's lives then there should at least be some benefits for society. Any study of the privately run casinos in the US shows that there is no real advantage to having gambling in private hands.
 
JLM
#57
Quote: Originally Posted by Bar SinisterView Post

I am well aware of the evils of gambling, but I see no advantages in letting private businesses profit from that vice. The mere fact that gambling is an evil is a very strong argument in allowing government to be in charge of the business. If it is going to ruin people's lives then there should at least be some benefits for society. Any study of the privately run casinos in the US shows that there is no real advantage to having gambling in private hands.

I doubt if there is any sport or passtime that hasn't ruined someone's life. Gambling is good fun as long as it's done for fun, if it's done to try to get rich, the participater is an idiot!
 
GreenFish66
#58
It's about time O.L.G cut out all the Horse Pucky

It's about time the O.L.G restructured it's gaming industry..Time to cut out all the Horse Pucky. The horse tracks have been riding on the backs of senior slot players for far too long..It's become a lose/lose for everyone..If the Biz is failing..Restructuring only makes good Biz sense..Slot players are tired of losing their money and winnings to a losing industry...

O.L.G/Liberals are on the right track..On this one...Been a long time coming..
 
Omicron
#59
Quote: Originally Posted by GreenFish66View Post

[...] Gaming should be privatized; left for business to run.....Not run by Governments - Too great a chance for corruption .

You've got to be joking. "Too great a chance for corruption"?

Under government, if it's a democracy, you can have oversight, to make sure it's not corrupt, whereas under business, they can operate without oversight from anyone except shareholders, so what if all the shareholders are mobsters?

Quote:

Running Business Wants...Is not the Job of government...Governments job is to regulate/serve/protect/work with/for the people, on their behalf...

I agree... and I think it's more to my benefit as a citizen to have my gambling losses plowed back into the provincial economy for there to be a chance for me to make it back instead of the losses flying off to a Carribean island.

Quote:

Hard to do when your addicted to (declining) gambling revenues.

Ahh... so you think government should tax other areas of the economy as if it was getting no gambling revenue, just in case people stop gambling.

I can see that. Tax as if no revenue is coming from gambling, tobacco and booze just in case people stop gambling, smoking and drinking, such that revenue from GTB can be treated like a bonus, and applied against things like government debt. If they brought pot under that umbrella, government debts could be brought down in no time.

Quote:

Unhealthy/Wanted/ Adult Entertainment/Guilty Pleasures/ potentially addictive activities(?), should be left for Business to profit from

Why?!? So that business can make profits while citizens pay the cost of the social collateral damage like health care for smokers and welfare for gambling addicts?

If gambling was taxed at a rate sufficient to pay the cost of handling gambling addicts (like they're trying to tax tobacco at a rate sufficient to pay the health-care costs of smokers) then the casinos would make no profit, in which case they (being "business") would have no incentive to operate, in which case government would have to run casinos as a social-service to people who want to gamble.
.
Quote:


Government should not be in the Gambling Business...because

------- Gaming/Gambling is no fun, for anyone, when run, strictly, by Big Gov.---------

Why?!?

Do roulette tables emit a mysterious, unplesant vibe when owned by government?
 
GreenFish66
#60
Time to Cut out the On Slot of Horse Pucky!

Relying on Gamblers to continuosly fund a losing Horse industry, is a LOSE/LOSE for EVERYONE.
Horse industry has been getting a free ride off the backs of the misfortunate for far too long .
Time to cut out the on slot of Horse Pucky.
Better to deal with the fallout now, than later...

Restructuring is necessary..



________________________________

Omicron ....Government should not run biz ...That's the job of Biz..Govs job is to regulate on behalf of its citizens...
Last edited by GreenFish66; Apr 4th, 2012 at 07:43 PM..
 
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