No justice in leniency shown to aboriginal offenders


dumpthemonarchy
#1
I totally agree. So we let them commit violence amongst each other and give them light sentences so they can do more. This unjust parallel system ought to be corrected.

This sentence really stood out to me:

"If this information is new to you, don't worry. The issue of unequal justice in favour of aboriginals seldom comes to the fore because, to be frank, most violent crime com-mitted by aboriginals is committed against other aboriginals. So the issue doesn't pierce non- aboriginal consciousness."



No justice in leniency shown to aboriginal offenders




No justice in leniency shown to aboriginal offenders







By Lorne Gunter, National Post January 5, 2012



According to Canadian law, judges must pay particular attention to the circumstances of aboriginal offenders in order to reduce the overrepresentation of aboriginals in the justice system.

They must do so even if aboriginal offenders' lawyers do not raise the issue of their clients' race at trial. They must also make allowance for offenders' status in regard to whether offenders live on or off a reserve.

That has been the reality since the 1999 Supreme Court of Canada's decision in the case of R. vs. Gla-due, which gave broad interpretation to Criminal Code requirements for sentencing judges.

If this information is new to you, don't worry. The issue of unequal justice in favour of aboriginals seldom comes to the fore because, to be frank, most violent crime com-mitted by aboriginals is committed against other aboriginals. So the issue doesn't pierce non- aboriginal consciousness.

That likely explains the justifiable public outrage at the ultra-light sentence given in late December to Richard Smoke for a vicious beating he laid on a homebuilder during the violent occupation of a new residential subdivision near Caledonia, Ont., in the summer of 2007.

One morning, Sam Gualtieri found three aboriginals camped out inside one of his projects. When Gualtieri confronted the trio, he was attacked. Several of his bones were broken, including some in his face and head. He sustained permanent brain damage and still has trouble reading, speaking and walking.

For this vicious attack - which Ontario Superior Court Judge Alan Whitten described as "just a notch below culpable homicide" - Smoke was given a sentence of not quite three years, with time served.

This special treatment isn't unusual for aboriginal offenders. But the federal government shouldn't let it stand, either. The federal Justice Department must appeal Smoke's sentence all the way to the Supreme Court in the hope that it will reverse, at least partially, the lunacy and inequity foisted on the country by its 1999 predecessor.

The Gladue decision, which established the practice of preferential treatment for aboriginal offenders, came at the end of a period of particularly irrational sentimentality from the court in regard to aboriginal issues.

Aboriginals do not need special treatment in court; nor has the special treatment they have received over the past 14 years done much to reduce the rates of aboriginal crime or violence.

Moreover, while aboriginals may be overrepresented in prison relative to their share of the population (21 per cent of prisoners versus four per cent of the population), they are not overrepresented relative to their involvement in crimes.

About one in five crimes in which the race of the suspect is identified is committed by an aboriginal, just as about one in five prisoners is aboriginal.

The kind of preferential treatment from which Smoke benefited only encourages would-be First Nations offenders to commit crimes, because they know the consequences will likely be light.

At the same time, it is an insult to people like Sam Gualtieri - victimized once by a man with a two-by-four and again by the court system that denied him justice.





 
gerryh
+2
#2
How nice of you and gunter to only give part of the picture. Not unusual though when it comes to racist, bigoted pricks like the 2 of you.

here's closer to the truth.

"He gave Smoke a two-year and 11-month sentence, reduced by the equivalent of 11 months of pre-trial custody. That makes his final sentence less than two years, meaning he will serve his time in a provincial jail rather than a federal prison, followed by three years of probation during which he is banned from entering the occupied Douglas Creek property."
 
dumpthemonarchy
#3
Good plan, shoot the messengers.

Where are the mods for this foul language?
 
talloola
+1
#4
there is no swear word on this earth, worse than the word 'bigot'.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#5
Only three years for inflicting brain damage on a person, that's quite light. Ten at least would have been more just.
 
petros
+1
#6
Pffffb. People get 3 years for manslaughter.
 
oleoleolanda
#7
"According to Canadian law, judges must pay particular attention to the circumstances of aboriginal offenders in order to reduce the overrepresentation of aboriginals in the justice system."

If this is true, it reveals a hypocrisy in our justice system, a checklist mentality that is concerned about appearances rather than justice and the safety of people, particularly aboriginal people.

But I would like to see some major rethinking in our legal system in which the priority is prevention, especially when it comes to youth.
 
Cliffy
+2
#8
Quote: Originally Posted by oleoleolandaView Post

"According to Canadian law, judges must pay particular attention to the circumstances of aboriginal offenders in order to reduce the overrepresentation of aboriginals in the justice system."

If this is true, it reveals a hypocrisy in our justice system, a checklist mentality that is concerned about appearances rather than justice and the safety of people, particularly aboriginal people.

But I would like to see some major rethinking in our legal system in which the priority is prevention, especially when it comes to youth.

Up until lately, the prison population was predominantly aboriginal. With them making up less than 5% of the population and more than 50% of the prison population, the inequality was glaring. The political knee jerk reaction to the public coming to that awareness was a little over the top. But in spite of this, many aboriginal cases are referred to their own justice system. If people would bother to look into how they deal with criminal behaviour, they would see that it has some very profound advantages over our system.
 
oleoleolanda
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

Up until lately, the prison population was predominantly aboriginal. With them making up less than 5% of the population and more than 50% of the prison population, the inequality was glaring. The political knee jerk reaction to the public coming to that awareness was a little over the top. But in spite of this, many aboriginal cases are referred to their own justice system. If people would bother to look into how they deal with criminal behaviour, they would see that it has some very profound advantages over our system.

Do you have any links or suggested reading on the aboriginal justice system? I would be very interested in learning more. I actually think there's a number of areas in which the rest of Canada could learn a lot from aboriginal cultures.

The reality is that most aboriginal communities in this country have suffered terrible devastation for a long, long time, so I think the high crime rate had more to do with that than with the legal system having a prejudice against aboriginals, although I'm sure there were cases of this too. What bothers me is that when you see such high crime rates, the answer is not to cover up the problem by simply sending fewer to jail. It is to look at what's happening in the community and invest in providing people with the resources and help they need to overcome those problems. That said, there seems to be all kinds of hope and I think aboriginal communities and people across this country are moving towards all kinds of self empowerment, healing and progress, with a huge rise in entrepreneurship too.
 
damngrumpy
#10
Rather than saying the justice system is unequal, for a large part in parts of this country
societal treatment has been unequal. It goes back over century and it continues today.
Even saying that I risk generalizing, but it is true the system has been unequal for a lot
of reasons. More aboriginals are in jail because they don't know the system and in some
cases they accept their fate, and lawyers don't exactly rush forward to make an adequate
defence either.
There are a lot of problems in this country, and its time to reflect reality instead of making
blanket statements, which is hard to do because it is difficult to simplify a very complicated
topic. But in my opinion aboriginals do not get preferential treatment.
 
Cliffy
+1
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by oleoleolandaView Post

Do you have any links or suggested reading on the aboriginal justice system? I would be very interested in learning more. I actually think there's a number of areas in which the rest of Canada could learn a lot from aboriginal cultures.

Its called aboriginal restorative justice and there is a ton of stuff if you google it. It seems to be universal as it is common to aboriginal communities all over the planet. Most of the articles are from legal books and archives. I will try to find a simpler version from a friend who is involved in it.
 
CDNBear
#12
Just finding out about Gladue now?

Holy crap, I only posted about it years ago.

Not a great system, but it sure beats the old system, where a Natives word wasn't worth half that of a non native.
 
Kakato
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Pffffb. People get 3 years for manslaughter.

If your an RCMP you get house arrest.

The tragedy of Darren Varley
 
dumpthemonarchy
#14
Indians fill the jails because they commit offences, defined in the criminal code, so the police charge them. Some people think that's prejudice, which of course it's not. To say that when people commit violent crimes against another person, they should not be charged, is deranged.

Giving special consideration to people of a certain race is discrimination, this is not justice. It's very simple.
 
shadowshiv
+2
#15
Leniency isn't something only given to Native Americans. In Canada, light sentences are given to many criminals, regardless of their race or religion.
 
SLM
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by shadowshivView Post

Leniency isn't something only given to Native Americans. In Canada, light sentences are given to many criminals, regardless of their race or religion.

Yeah, no kidding. Though I'll bet that if one were diligent and went looking through all the media one could find enough articles to demonstrate just how many caucasians are receiving light sentences in our courtrooms too.

It really all comes down to how you filter your information doesn't it?
 
Cliffy
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

Yeah, no kidding. Though I'll bet that if one were diligent and went looking through all the media one could find enough articles to demonstrate just how many caucasians are receiving light sentences in our courtrooms too.

It really all comes down to how you filter your information doesn't it?

Poverty is a major factor too, when a person can't afford a good (one that can get you off as opposed to being a good person) lawyer. The court system is self perpetrating in that it is based more on keeping lawyer and judges well paid as opposed to dealing in justice. The law is an industry. It employs hundreds of thousands: police, guards, judges, lawyers, clerks, therapists, cooks, servers, etc. They must keep the system working so Canada incarcerates natives while the US incarcerates their blacks.
 
dumpthemonarchy
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by shadowshivView Post

Leniency isn't something only given to Native Americans. In Canada, light sentences are given to many criminals, regardless of their race or religion.

It's always good to confuse an issue, that means you don't understand it, and wish others would do the same.

One problem Indians have is a very high rate of FAS, which means they are screwed for life and we can afford to jail tons of them like we do. These FAS people likely drink too much and are unable to contain their emotions at times and strike people, causing crime. Many live in the DTES in Vancouver, which is where the police spend much of their work day.

Here's a link to a white guy who has 78 convictions and got bail this week. In some countries like the UK, they lock up people indefinitely with 50 convictions. Rape, assault fraud, you name it, he did it. Like that battering bunny.
http://www.globaltvbc.com/career+criminal+should+be+in+prison+for+life+victi ms+grandson+says+after+hospital+attack/6442553268/story.html
 
Cliffy
+3
#19  Top Rated Post
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

It's always good to confuse an issue, that means you don't understand it, and wish others would do the same.

One problem Indians have is a very high rate of FAS, which means they are screwed for life and we can afford to jail tons of them like we do. These FAS people likely drink too much and are unable to contain their emotions at times and strike people, causing crime. Many live in the DTES in Vancouver, which is where the police spend much of their work day.

Here's a link to a white guy who has 78 convictions and got bail this week. In some countries like the UK, they lock up people indefinitely with 50 convictions. Rape, assault fraud, you name it, he did it. Like that battering bunny.
http://www.globaltvbc.com/career+criminal+should+be+in+prison+for+life+victi ms+grandson+says+after+hospital+attack/6442553268/story.html

It is easy to confuse an issue for someone who has a one trck mind like you. Do you even know what FAS is? Did these people have a choice? Did they get FAS from drinking? How did the situation get to this point?

I noticed that you like to cherry pick your facts to support your bigoted views.
 
SLM
+1
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

It is easy to confuse an issue for someone who has a one trck mind like you. Do you even know what FAS is? Did these people have a choice? Did they get FAS from drinking? How did the situation get to this point?

I noticed that you like to cherry pick your facts to support your bigoted views.

Yep.

One has to admire the steadfast determination and laser focus involved.


And yes, I'm being sarcastic.
 
CDNBear
+2
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

To say that when people commit violent crimes against another person, they should not be charged, is deranged.

Who said they shouldn't be charged?

Quote:

Giving special consideration to people of a certain race is discrimination, this is not justice.

I agree, but it is justice.

Quote:

It's very simple.

Not simple enough, you still don't get it.

Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

It's always good to confuse an issue, that means you don't understand it, and wish others would do the same.

Which is why you confuse the issue with blanket generalizations and stereotypes, all the time.
 
Goober
+1
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

It's always good to confuse an issue, that means you don't understand it, and wish others would do the same.

]


Let me make this clear - You have a small hardon for First Nations people. I will ask you one question - think it over and tell me what life prospects that person would generally have when you consider your answer.Include off reserve - on reserve -

Would you like to be born as a First Nations in Canada.
 
L Gilbert
+1
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by dumpthemonarchyView Post

Indians fill the jails because they commit offences, defined in the criminal code, so the police charge them. Some people think that's prejudice, which of course it's not. To say that when people commit violent crimes against another person, they should not be charged, is deranged.

Giving special consideration to people of a certain race is discrimination, this is not justice. It's very simple.

Canada's sure given aboriginals special treatment ever since Europeans landed here alright. Still does. Aboriginal societies in trouble are a direct result of outsider interference. That influence destabilized the societies here, and seems to have trouble figuring out what to do about it. I think there's a perfectly simple solution.
You seem to just want to snivel about how natives deal with how poorly our society can fix their societies. That helps a great big bunch.

Here's some info: http://www.ajic.mb.ca/volumel/chapter7.html

http://canada.justice.gc.ca/eng/pi/ajs-sja/

http://www.scowinstitute.ca/library/...Fact_Sheet.pdf

You want a melting pot rather than a multicultural country? Go to the States. It isn't any better there.
Last edited by L Gilbert; Jan 12th, 2012 at 06:25 PM..
 
SLM
+3
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Let me make this clear - You have a small hardon for First Nations people.

Oh Goober! That's offside, lol.

Quote:

I will ask you one question - think it over and tell me what life prospects that person would generally have when you consider your answer.Include off reserve - on reserve -

Would you like to be born as a First Nations in Canada.

Don't do anything silly like hold your breath waiting for a response.
 
CDNBear
+1
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

You seem to just want to snivel about how natives deal with how poorly our society can fix their societies.

Can you to expand on that?

Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

Don't do anything silly like hold your breath waiting for a reasoned response.

I corrected that for you.
 
SLM
+1
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post


I corrected that for you.

Ok, I thought that part was a given though, lol, It seems to me to be the kind of question that will just be ignored altogether. Time will tell.
 
L Gilbert
+1
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Can you to expand on that?

huh? You want me to illustrate his sniveling more vividly?

Quote:

I corrected that for you.

lol It's much better.
 
CDNBear
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

huh? You want me to illustrate his sniveling more vividly?

LOL, no, I was referring to the part about dealing with how poorly our society can fix their society.

I was curious about tense for the most part. As I see it, apart from contractual obligations, it ours job to fix where we are now.
 
Goober
+1
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

LOL, no, I was referring to the part about dealing with how poorly our society can fix their society.

I was curious about tense for the most part. As I see it, apart from contractual obligations, it ours job to fix where we are now.

Nothing wrong with accepting help. Builds stronger bridges and better understanding.
 
CDNBear
+2
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

Nothing wrong with accepting help. Builds stronger bridges and better understanding.

I have no problem accepting help. I have have a problem with expecting it, especially when you mismanage what you get by contract.
 

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