Forgiveness - Different for everyone


Goober
#1
Forgiveness - Different for everyone - We can say we would forgive this, that or whatever.

I watched this man on TV that day forgive this killer. He murdered 48 women. I watched and cried for him and his family.

What is forgiveness to you?

Do you hold grudges for things you should have let go of a long time ago.

Do you still have differences within your extended family from years ago that should be addressed.

Myself I have anger, plenty at times but I have never that pure hatred or hate- If Hate was defined by an Investment Professional - It would be billed as something where you will always lose what ever you invest into hatred plus an untold amount of your future, family and friends. The emotional losses are incalculable


Forgiveness - YouTube



Rebecca DeMauro (USA) (external - login to view)

Then one morning I was watching Katie Couric on NBC when the story of Gary Ridgway, the Green River Killer, was broadcast. Ridgway was sentenced for the murders of 48 women, making him the most prolific serial killer in US history. He was to receive 48 consecutive life terms for the murders of the women he killed. I watched with great interest as the victims’ families were each allotted ten minutes to give a victim impact statement.

NBC showed clips from several statements: ‘I hope you rot in hell, you son of a bitch’, and ‘you are not God. It was not your right to decide who lived and who died’. Ridgway sat stoic and hard, his eyes narrowed, seemingly full of hate.

It wasn’t until Bob Rule, father of 16-year-old Linda Rule, stood and faced the killer that something inside of me and Gary Ridgway broke. Bob Rule looked straight at the Green River killer and said:
‘Mr. Ridgway, there are people here who hate you. I’m not one of them. I forgive you for what you’ve done. You’ve made it difficult to live up to what I believe, and that is what God says to do, and that is forgive, and he doesn’t say to forgive just certain people, he says forgive all. So you are forgiven.’
Ridgway’s face softened and his lips began to tremble. Then he began to cry. At that precise moment, I realised that the only way I would be able to go on living was to stop hating. I had to do what Bob Rule had done and let it go, and let Andi rest in peace.
 
taxslave
+3
#2  Top Rated Post
I don't know about the forgiveness part. There are two people that I trusted that stole from me. One was a partner in some business ventures and the other was my book keeper. I fully intend to piss on both their graves if I happen to find them.
 
gerryh
+1
#3
It's too bad that thumbs can't be given for OP's..... A big thumbs up Goober.
 
Goober
#4
Quote: Originally Posted by gerryhView Post

It's too bad that thumbs can't be given for OP's..... A big thumbs up Goober.

Thank you. I have been thinking on this one for quite sometime.
Forgiveness is part of us.
 
lone wolf
+3
#5
Forgiving others is the easiest part. Who really wants - or needs - to carry around someone else as baggage. Forgiveness of self is another matter.
 
Goober
+1
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by lone wolfView Post

Forgiving others is the easiest part. Who really wants - or needs - to carry around someone else as baggage. Forgiveness of self is another matter.

That is one I struggle with. As the old saying goes. The hardest person to forgive is yourself.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
+2
#7
Forgiveness for some is a way to empty themselves of the burden brought on by often tragic or hurtful events in their life. My Father did many unforgivable things in his life. When my brother died in the St Lawrence river, at 7 years-old, my father did not attend the funeral because he was wanted for armed robbery and left my Mother and 8 year-old brother to fend for themselves. When I was four I remember crying into my cereal bowl to keep him from bouncing my mother of the wall. I remember promises of birthday presents that never arrived, promises that he had changed and being betrayed by that promise as an adult when I lowered my guard in forgiveness.

When my Father died I said aloud to whatever ghost remained of his memory, "I will not mourn for you. You had a great opportunity and you pissed it away."

I don't know if he heard or not, but they were the last words I gave him in this life. I do reach out to those memories that are often like sores, but they really do not bring me pain when I pick at them. In fact I draw inspiration from them to reach inside myself and use them to write.

I did not so much forgive my father for the things he did as I refused to allow the person he was to rent space in my head for brooding. I neither carry him as baggage or wish that he had been a different person, he wasted his life and though I will never assign an excuse for that I will not harbor resent.

This gentleman that stands before the BTK killer and proclaims that he forgives him is dealing with the horrible loss of his daughter in the best way he knows how. If that is where he finds the strength to carry on then it is a positive action.

For me to truly forgive someone like BTK I would honestly have to have some kind of connection to him as a father might have to a murdering spouse, but BTK is not that person.

He is a mechanism of violence who happened to perpetrate it upon strangers.
Last edited by Retired_Can_Soldier; Jan 1st, 2012 at 11:27 PM..
 
SLM
+3
#8
I think, for the most part, that forgiving others is something we do for ourselves, regardless of whatever noble intentions we want to assign to it. I know the idea is that if you have love in your heart, you can find forgiveness, but I don't know that anyone is really that pure. To me forgiveness is about releasing the strangle hold, the power that someone else has on you. I think peace and love comes afterwards, forgiveness is part of the healing process that we have to go through. Whether it is a formal act of forgiveness directly given to those who do us wrong or simply a releasing of the pain.

Maybe that's why it is so much harder to forgive ourselves, because we seem to have this tendency to wrap ourselves in our own pain like a cocoon. It is not comfortable nor pleasant, but it does become familiar and therefore hard to let go of.

I've had wrong done to me as a child and, if I'm being absolutely truthful, I do not forgive, not really. But I have let go of the power that it held over me, well mostly I have. I still struggle with it from time to time, it will raise it's ugly head on occassion but I am able to find comfort in my own strength and the the strength of others when it does.

The man in the video, Bob Rule, I can understand where he is coming from I think. The forgiveness he offers is not about Gary Ridgeway, it is about himself and his daughter. It is about letting go of the power of the pain that was caused. At least, that's how I see it. Perhaps he truly does forgive. If so, then he is a better person than I am. I don't know that I could.
 
talloola
+2
#9
I have forgiven many things concerning my dad, as it gives me peace and lets the anger fade away, but
the memories don't go away, so they have to be put in a place where they don't interfere with my
every day life, which allows me to be truly happy, and not allow any bitterness that I might carry,
show in my character.
The failure he was as a father and a husband, in my mind now, was 'his' loss more than anyone elses,
as he frittered away his life without ever finding inner peace, or learning how to truly give to
others without wanting something in return, and his alchohol addiction was a big problem, so he went
all thru life, and didn't really have a life at all and that is sad.

I do make a point of remembering the good side of my dad, and that is easy to do, and as I get older
the good part of many things remain clear in my mind, and the other 'stuff' fades away.
I did forgive but won't forget, can't forget.

Forgiveness is easy with many things, and that is good, but one's memory cannot just cancel out
happenings, and i'm sure that is a good thing too, as one should not set themselves up for more
situations where you have to struggle to forgive, I guess its called, taking of yourself, live and
learn, etc, don't turn the other cheek, be smart, trust, but don't be gullible, there is a balance
in getting along with others, and not being taken advantage of, as well as trusting others, truly
liking someone or loving someone.
Last edited by talloola; Jan 2nd, 2012 at 01:33 PM..
 
L Gilbert
#10
Forgiving and forgetting are variable for me. It depends upon circumstances.

Quote: Originally Posted by SLMView Post

I think, for the most part, that forgiving others is something we do for ourselves, regardless of whatever noble intentions we want to assign to it. I know the idea is that if you have love in your heart, you can find forgiveness, but I don't know that anyone is really that pure. To me forgiveness is about releasing the strangle hold, the power that someone else has on you. I think peace and love comes afterwards, forgiveness is part of the healing process that we have to go through. Whether it is a formal act of forgiveness directly given to those who do us wrong or simply a releasing of the pain.
Maybe that's why it is so much harder to forgive ourselves, because we seem to have this tendency to wrap ourselves in our own pain like a cocoon. It is not comfortable nor pleasant, but it does become familiar and therefore hard to let go of.
I've had wrong done to me as a child and, if I'm being absolutely truthful, I do not forgive, not really. But I have let go of the power that it held over me, well mostly I have. I still struggle with it from time to time, it will raise it's ugly head on occassion but I am able to find comfort in my own strength and the the strength of others when it does.
The man in the video, Bob Rule, I can understand where he is coming from I think. The forgiveness he offers is not about Gary Ridgeway, it is about himself and his daughter. It is about letting go of the power of the pain that was caused....

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Yeah, most people are not very altruistic. We are ALL hardwired for self-interest and only a relative few can detach themselves in favor of others with any amount of regularity.

Haaaa! Someone called me an altruist one time. They sure missed the mark. I do things for others because it gives ME a high. Wifey on the other hand, does things for people just because its her nature. She simply loves people being happy. I'm trying to get to that place.
 
JLM
#11
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

Forgiveness for some is a way to empty themselves of the burden brought on by often tragic or hurtful events in their life. My Father did many unforgivable things in his life. When my brother died in the St Lawrence river, at 7 years-old, my father did not attend the funeral because he was wanted for armed robbery and left my Mother and 8 year-old brother to fend for themselves. When I was four I remember crying into my cereal bowl to keep him from bouncing my mother of the wall. I remember promises of birthday presents that never arrived, promises that he had changed and being betrayed by that promise as an adult when I lowered my guard in forgiveness.
When my Father died I said aloud to whatever ghost remained of his memory, "I will not mourn for you. You had a great opportunity and you pissed it away."
I don't know if he heard or not, but they were the last words I gave him in this life. I do reach out to those memories that are often like sores, but they really do not bring me pain when I pick at them. In fact I draw inspiration from them to reach inside myself and use them to write.
I did not so much forgive my father for the things he did as I refused to allow the person he was to rent space in my head for brooding. I neither carry him as baggage or wish that he had been a different person, he wasted his life and though I will never assign an excuse for that I will not harbor resent.
This gentleman that...

Quote has been trimmed, See full post: View Post
Ridgeway was the Green River killer!
 
L Gilbert
#12
I missed something I think. What does Ridgeway have to do with what ROS said?
 
damngrumpy
+3
#13
Interesting topic forgiveness. For those who can't forgive I feel a measure of empithy for
them. Often times, people go on with the grudge long after the offender has forgotten
about it and that means the person who was the victim ends with ulcers.
My dad once explained to me how lack of forgiveness has a personal effect on you.
He said it like getting up in the morning and putting a five pound wooden block of anger
on your shoulder. a twenty pound vest of resentment made of chain mail, a ten pound
pair of trousers made of canvass hate, two twenty pound bracelets made of brass revenge
and a feather of stubborn pride that won't release you from the other negative thoughts
that continually eat away at you until you become like the person who trespassed against
you. You end up building your own mental dungeon that has an effect on everything you
do because it is always present and at the same time it gives you an upset stomach
worth of conscience.
I decided a long time ago that forgiveness is something that absolves both the people
involved in what ever happened. You cannot forgive yourself for your own behaviour if
you cannot forgive someone else for theirs For me life is too short to go about harbouring
hate or bad feelings for other. Someone might at time piss in my cornflakes but be
hanged if I will pee in my own
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Ridgeway was the Green River killer!

Oops sorry, got my defects of nature list mixed up.

Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

I missed something I think. What does Ridgeway have to do with what ROS said?

Who's ROS?
 
L Gilbert
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post




Who's ROS?

Ooops, sorry. I meant RCS, as in you. I am not wearing my cheaters.

Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Someone might at time piss in my cornflakes but be
hanged if I will pee in my own

If you're like me, you'd miss anyway. lol
 
JLM
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

I missed something I think. What does Ridgeway have to do with what ROS said?

B.T.K. killer was Dennis Rader, not the guy being forgiven.
 
Retired_Can_Soldier
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

B.T.K. killer was Dennis Rader, not the guy being forgiven.

Yeah that's right. I'm sure he's wiping a tear in remorse as well.
 
Cliffy
#18
And to add to the confusion, who or what does BTK stand for?
 
SLM
+1
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by L GilbertView Post

Forgiving and forgetting are variable for me. It depends upon circumstances.

Yeah, most people are not very altruistic. We are ALL hardwired for self-interest and only a relative few can detach themselves in favor of others with any amount of regularity.

True enough, we use and manipulate other people all the time. But for the most part it is somewhat benign and reciprocal. I'd like to think the average individual carries enough empathy as to not completely be 100% selfish. Plus, although we may initially bond with others for reasons of self-interest, we do still tend to actually form a bond. The stronger the bond, the more we can be motivated by the interests of the other party.

Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

And to add to the confusion, who or what does BTK stand for?

Bind, torture, kill. Self-named this creep was, if memory serves.
 
JLM
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_SoldierView Post

Yeah that's right. I'm sure he's wiping a tear in remorse as well.

Another low life miscreant who was "big" in the church!

It's a lot easier to forgive than it is to forget. For instance a guy steals $1million from you, you never forget no matter what, but on the day he pays it back with interest you forgive, but that doesn't expunge the memory of the intitial wrong!
 
damngrumpy
+1
#21
There is only one small confusion here, forgiveness should not be confused with
what we call justice. Forgiveness does not mean one should escape the over all
responsibility for what they have done. Justice and forgiveness therefore are two
different things. One can say from the heart as it were, there is no malice toward
that individual, however the offender like BTK is still going to spend the rest of
their life in jail.
If someone is caught and put on trial, found guilty and sentenced to life in prison
or execution and they are put away, why the hell would I waste my time hating
them or even giving them another thought for that matter. If we subscribe to that
these people and their evil deeds live on in the societies mind and that is not a
principle of justice.
If we take the position that forgiveness allows us to move on the offenders are then
condemned to silence and their deeds are forgotten in the vast pages of history
and that is far worse for those offenders, because their main focus was to be
remembered, by forgiveness and putting them out of our minds, they are isolated
in theirs the exact opposite of what the were striving for. That is the way I see it
anyway, maybe I'm wrong but I am not going to waste my time on earth giving
them a stage for remembrance or immortality, and by reviling and hating them they
get the recognition they don't deserve
 
Cliffy
#22

Joe Cartoon - Gerbil in a Light Socket - YouTube

 
Goober
#23
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

There is only one small confusion here, forgiveness should not be confused with
what we call justice. Forgiveness does not mean one should escape the over all
responsibility for what they have done. Justice and forgiveness therefore are two
different things. One can say from the heart as it were, there is no malice toward
that individual, however the offender like BTK is still going to spend the rest of
their life in jail.

DG - It is amazing how and what splits families apart. I have noted that over the years. One is a poorly planned will. Then fights start over the worst way you would ever receive money - someone has to die. Or spouses cannot get along with another family members spouse. And shxt starts over what is at times really not that important - but grows like a wildfire, on a dry day with a strong wind. Consumes all and any that comes into contact with it.
 
Cliffy
#24
The main thing that is wrong with the human race is people.
 
shadowshiv
+1
#25
If someone ever murdered someone that I love(especially a family member), there is no way I would ever forgive them.
 
JLM
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by shadowshivView Post

If someone ever murdered someone that I love(especially a family member), there is no way I would ever forgive them.

You got that right!
 
Cliffy
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by shadowshivView Post

If someone ever murdered someone that I love(especially a family member), there is no way I would ever forgive them.

I'm not sure if forgive is the right word here. But somehow we have to let go of the anger and hate because they will eat us up inside and ruin our lives. And in the end, I doubt that anybody, especially the lost loved one, would want us to suffer on their account.

A good friend died on Friday. He suffered from the side effects of diabetes. Kept loosing body parts. I don't grieve for my lose, instead I celebrate that he no longer suffers and that Friday morning, when we had coffee together, he still had his incredible sense of humour.
 
JLM
#28
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I'm not sure if forgive is the right word here. But somehow we have to let go of the anger and hate because they will eat us up inside and ruin our lives. And in the end, I doubt that anybody, especially the lost loved one, would want us to suffer on their account.

A good friend died on Friday. He suffered from the side effects of diabetes. Kept loosing body parts. I don't grieve for my lose, instead I celebrate that he no longer suffers and that Friday morning, when we had coffee together, he still had his incredible sense of humour.

Sorry about the loss of your friend, Cliff.
 
shadowshiv
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by CliffyView Post

I'm not sure if forgive is the right word here. But somehow we have to let go of the anger and hate because they will eat us up inside and ruin our lives. And in the end, I doubt that anybody, especially the lost loved one, would want us to suffer on their account.

A good friend died on Friday. He suffered from the side effects of diabetes. Kept loosing body parts. I don't grieve for my lose, instead I celebrate that he no longer suffers and that Friday morning, when we had coffee together, he still had his incredible sense of humour.

I'm not sure if I could let go of the anger and the hate. Seeing the person standing across from me, still alive while my loved one is dead an buried(or missing), would not sit right with me.

And my condolences on the loss of your friend.
 
Cliffy
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by shadowshivView Post

I'm not sure if I could let go of the anger and the hate. Seeing the person standing across from me, still alive while my loved one is dead an buried(or missing), would not sit right with me.

And my condolences on the loss of your friend.

Ben was a big man, Chippewa Indian. He was always teasing the girls at the coffee shop. One of the girls' husband had been away for 6 months working up north and was coming home for Christmas. Ben says to her, "I don't want you showing up here looking like you been hit by a mayonnaise truck."
Man, a lot of coffee got sprayed across the table with that one.
 

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