Rex Murphy: Removing Julian Assange’s halo


View Poll Results: Assange is responsible for a number of Innocent Deaths
Yes 11 50.00%
No 5 22.73%
He was right to release the files 7 31.82%
He was wrong to release the files 6 27.27%
Do not give a hoot about repercussions. We had to know. 1 4.55%
The US Govt will eventually catch him 4 18.18%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

CDNBear
#271
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

You expect him to?

He's the master of dodging, lol

LMAO!!! Especially since you keep dodging Assange's own admission. You really should pick a principle and stick to it.

But I digress, I'm already well aware that you aren't objective. There is no need to make it any clearer.

Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

It's hard to post what doesn't exist.

That's why you keep dodging my challenge.

Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

Now where did that damned rabbit go? over there????

Tell me about it.
 
petros
#272
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

That's why you keep dodging my challenge..

Post the law that obligates Canada, US and some EU nations to protect civilian Afghan informants and I'll consider your challenge.
 
CDNBear
#273
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Post the law that obligates Canada, US and some EU nations to protect civilian Afghan informants and I'll consider your challenge.

LOL.

Keep dodging...

Peter Falk - Alan Arkin - The In Laws - Serpentine Serpentine - YouTube



It's funny to watch.
 
petros
+1
#274
What am I dodging? Volleys of bull****?
 
CDNBear
#275
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

What am I dodging? Volleys of bull****?

You have to dodge your own posts?
 
petros
+1
#276
Anytime you're ready to post your "case law" I'll gladly review it.
 
Machjo
#277
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Post the law that obligates Canada, US and some EU nations to protect civilian Afghan informants and I'll consider your challenge.

Canada does have privacy laws. Had Assange released this information in Canada, at the very least those Afghans could probably sue him for some financial sum at least.
 
CDNBear
#278
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Anytime you're ready to post your "case law" I'll gladly review it.

Keep dodging...

Peter Falk - Alan Arkin - The In Laws - Serpentine Serpentine - YouTube

 
petros
#279
Post your **** buddy. You said you have it so now is your chance.
 
CDNBear
#280
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Post your **** buddy. You said you have it so now is your chance.

Hey cool, we're at the **** stage now.

Keep dodging.
 
mentalfloss
#281
The Manning-Assange Chat Logs

Military prosecutors presented 15 pages of chat logs allegedly documenting correspondence between Army intelligence analyst Bradley Manning and Wikileaks founder Julian Assange last week as the Army closed its case against Manning, Wired reported.

The logs show the two discussing uploading classified documents about Guantanamo Bay detainees to Wikileaks and Manning asking for assistance in cracking a computer password. Manning faces more than 30 charges related to his alleged release of information to Wikileaks and up to 150 years in prison, a prospect his attorney says shows the government’s overreaction to the case. Regardless of what happens to Manning, some people believe the larger issue is “the systematic breakdown in security that enabled a low-ranking enlisted man to abscond with a staggering quantity of classified Pentagon and State Department documents,” as a Politico article phrased it.

Free Times: Media Madness - The Manning-Assange Chat Logs (external - login to view)
 
darkbeaver
+1
#282
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

TIPS informants in Canada subject to US law???????

Ah, we don't know for sure, do we? Everything police in Canada is police in USA and Israel.
 
CDNBear
#283
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss;1525935[SIZE=5

[/SIZE]]The logs show the two discussing uploading classified documents about Guantanamo Bay detainees to Wikileaks and Manning asking for assistance in cracking a computer password.

Oh oh! If Assange gave him any help, it spells certain doom.
 
darkbeaver
#284
Assange himself will form the basis of a very nice show trial designed to dampen leaky peoples spirits. He,s also very expendable and could become martyred into heroic stuff for the celebrity cheezeburger consuming public. He's always been an inflatable gas bag for hire.
 
mentalfloss
#285
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Oh oh! If Assange gave him any help, it spells certain doom.

It definitely would.

I wouldn't be surprised if Assange did help him get access to the files.
Last edited by mentalfloss; Dec 28th, 2011 at 12:20 PM..
 
CDNBear
+1
#286
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

Of course it would.

I wouldn't be surprised if Assange did help him get access to the files.

Neither would I. But than again, given his feelings about the informants he endangered, aiding in espionage, really isn't a stretch.

Oh, btw, I just read an article from 03/03/11. Where Military Officials stated they had rounded up many of the informants named by Assange, for their protection. But couldn't find all of them.

I can't imagine why they would have to round them up, there's no threat (external - login to view).
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+1
#287
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

I can't imagine why they would have to round them up, there's no threat (external - login to view).

Perhaps they wanted to have a kick *** "Thank You" party.
 
mentalfloss
#288
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiingView Post

Perhaps they wanted to have a kick *** "Thank You" party.

I agree.

This is most likely scenario.
 
CDNBear
#289
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

I agree.

This is most likely scenario.

 
mentalfloss
#290
It was the most one could extrapolate from your desperate attempt to connect the serpentine dots.
 
CDNBear
#291
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

It was the most one could extrapolate from your desperate attempt to connect the serpentine dots.

Correction, it was the most you could extrapolate from clear intel, because it doesn't suit your ideology.

Carry on, every one of your posts only strengthens my assertions.
 
mentalfloss
#292
Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBearView Post

Correction, it was the most you could extrapolate from clear intel, because it doesn't suit your ideology.

Carry on, every one of your posts only strengthens my assertions.

 
CDNBear
+1
#293
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalflossView Post

...

Do you always eat sashimi, and look like that, when you get PWND?

I can understand the goofy look, but is sashimi like a comfort food for you or something?
Last edited by CDNBear; Dec 28th, 2011 at 01:37 PM..
 
Goober
+2
#294
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

Anytime you're ready to post your "case law" I'll gladly review it.

Canadian Law.

The Court » Blog Archive » R. v. Basi: (I) The Sanctity of Informer Privilege; (II) Preliminary Appeals in Criminal Trials (external - login to view)


(I) The Sanctity of Informer Privilege

“Informer Privilege” or “Informant Privilege”—the protection of the identity of a confidential informant—is one of the most prohibitive and absolute privileges in the Canadian legal system. The Supreme Court of Canada reiterated its importance last week by unanimously overturning both lower court decisions in R. v. Basi, 2009 SCC 52. (The BC Supreme Court decision may be found here, while the BC Court of Appeal decision may be found here.)Writing for the Supreme Court, Justice Fish noted:

The informer privilege has been described as “nearly absolute.” … [I]t is safeguarded by a protective veil that will be lifted by judicial order only when the innocence of the accused is demonstrably at stake. Moreover, while a court can adopt discretionary measures to protect the identity of the informer, the privilege itself is “a matter beyond the discretion of a trial judge.” (at para. 37 [citation omitted])
Informer privilege is considered such an important societal interest that it cannot be balanced against any other interests relating to the administration of justice. Informer privilege does not cede to the accused’s right to full disclosure, which, according to R. v. Stinchcombe, [1991] 3 S.C.R. 326, is a constitutionally protected right under section 7 of the Charter. The privilege is subject only to the very narrow “innocence at stake” exception, which engages s.11(d) of the Charter, and operates only when the accused can establish that the information is necessary to demonstrate his or her innocence (i.e. the accused is unable to otherwise raise a reasonable doubt about his or her guilt). See R. v. Leipert, [1997] 1 S.C.R. 281.

The societal interests in protecting informer identity are (i) the effective operation of law enforcement:

“The rule gives a peace officer the power to promise his informers secrecy expressly or by implication, with a guarantee sanctioned by the law that this promise will be kept even in court, and to receive in exchange for this promise information without which it would be extremely difficult for him to carry out his duties and ensure that the criminal law is obeyed” (Bisaillon v. Keable, [1983] 2 S.C.R. 60 at 106)

and (ii) protection of informants, with a recognition that aiding law enforcement is the duty of all citizens:

[Informant privilege] is premised on the duty of all citizens to aid in enforcing the law. The discharge of this duty carries with it the risk of retribution from those involved in crime. The rule of informer privilege was developed to protect citizens who assist in law enforcement and to encourage others to do the same” (R. v. Leipert, [1997] 1 S.C.R. 281 at para. 9).

Factual Background and Judicial History
The R. v. Basi saga is infamously known as the “BC Rail Corruption Case.” Three former public servants stood accused of fraud, breach of trust, and money laundering over allegations that they had received bribes in exchange for providing confidential information to one of the bidders competing in the first phase of the BC Rail privatization. An in-depth factual background and detailed analysis of the BC Court of Appeal and trial decisions was provided last year on TheCourt.ca: “Informer Privilege Hearings: Unfairly Non-Adversarial or Appropriately Restrictive?” (December 1, 200.

The informer privilege issue in Basi arose as a result of the Crown disclosing a redacted version of police notes to the defence. Upon further application for disclosure, the Crown claimed informer privilege over the redacted portions of the documents, claiming that disclosing the information would compromise the identity of a police informant. The Crown also applied for an ex parte in-camera hearing so that the trial judge could consider informer privilege in the absence of the accused parties or their counsel (2007 BCSC 1898 at paras.2-6). The Crown claimed that “the presence of defence counsel [at the in-camera hearing] … will violate that informer privilege and identify the informant” (2008 BCCA 297 at para. 3).

At trial, Madam Justice Bennett disagreed with the Crown and said that the in-camera hearing would occur with defence counsel present. To protect the informer privilege, she required written undertakings from defence counsel, and further bound counsel to a court order stating that they “will not disclose anything heard in the in-camera hearing to anyone … . Failure to comply with this order will result in a contempt of court hearing” (at para. 22). The BC Court of Appeal dismissed the appeal on the grounds that it had no jurisdiction to hear it (discussed further below). Alternatively, the majority of the Court of Appeal would have found that allowing the defence counsel to attend the in-camera hearing would be within the rightful discretion of the trial judge. In a strong dissent, Madam Justice Ryan stated that “the trial judge erred in permitting defence counsel to be present for the inquiry” (at para. 110).

The Supreme Court Judgment
The Supreme Court unanimously overturned both lower courts, holding that “the trial judge erred in permitting defence counsel to hear the testimony of an officer tending to reveal the identity of the putative informant” (at para. 44). Building on the dissent of Madam Justice Ryan at the Court of Appeal, Justice Fish noted the awkward and professionally questionable position the defence counsel would be placed in if they were privy to the identity of the informer but were prohibited from revealing it to their clients. Such a situation would “strain the necessary [solicitor-client] relationship” (at para. 45). The Court’s decision makes it clear that the counsel for the accused in a criminal trial are not within “the circle of privilege” where informer privilege is at stake.

The Court then went on to address section 650(1) of the Criminal Code, raised by the defence at trial. Section 650(1) states:

Subject to subsections (1.1) to (2) and section 650.01, an accused, other than an organization, shall be present in court during the whole of his or her trial [emphasis added].

Justice Fish held that the in-camera hearing to determine informant privilege did not constitute a part of the “trial” but was only an ancillary and discrete proceeding, thereby not engaging section 650(1).

However, after robustly “laying down the law” on informer privilege, Justice Fish went on to recognize the complexities inherent in the case at bar and outlined opportunities for the defence team’s involvement to ensure a fair and accurate resolution. He clarified that defence counsel ought to be barred from such hearings only where “the identity of the confidential informant cannot be otherwise protected” (at para. 53). I find this aspect of the decision to be blurry at best. The protection of an informant’s identity involves ensuring that even the most innocuous information that could lead to identification is privileged. It would be difficult for a trial judge to foresee and determine beforehand whether such information will be exposed during, for example, an interview with the police officer who knows the identity of the informant.

Justice Fish’s other proposals, such as inviting written submissions from defence counsel that could be entertained during the hearing, or providing the defence with a redacted transcript of the hearing after the fact, seem much more reasonable in ensuring the accused’s interests are not undermined. In his conclusion, Justice Fish left it open to the trial court to determine on a case-by-case basis what the best course of action would be in a given trial: “The trial judge, however, will be in a better position to decide how best to craft safeguards that mitigate any potential unfairness arising from the ex parte nature of the proceedings” (at para. 5.

(II) The Right to Preliminary Appeals in Criminal Cases and s.11(b) of the Charter

A second issue in this case was whether the Crown had a right to appeal the trial decision regarding informant privilege. The issue is, of course, a preliminary matter in an ongoing criminal trial. Can such a decision be appealed (effectively putting on hold the criminal proceeding while the procedural issue is determined)? Under paragraph 37.1(1)(b) of the Canada Evidence Act, R.S.C. 1985, c. C-5, “An appeal lies from a determination under any of subsections 37(4.1) to (6) to the court of appeal of a province from a determination of a trial division or trial court of a superior court of the province.” Section 37 deals with the Crown invoking public interest privilege and subsections (4.1) to (6) deal with the trial court’s discretion in determining the privilege.

The trial judge clearly indicated in her decision that the Crown had the right to appeal her decision, and suspended the voir dire to “give the Crown the opportunity to determine whether it wishes to appeal this ruling, which it has the right to do under s. 37 of the Canada Evidence Act” (at para. 23). The majority of the Court of Appeal found this to be erroneous, holding that it had no jurisdiction to entertain the appeal because the trial judge’s decision was a disclosure order rather than a ruling under subsections 37(4.1) to (6). The Supreme Court of Canada overturned the Court of Appeal on the matter, dismissing the defence’s cross-appeal and finding that the trial judge’s decision was an order under section 37(4.1) and, therefore, open to appeal. The Court held that although the section 37 public interest privilege is much more relaxed and subject to balancing than informer privilege, this distinction is not determinative of whether the trial judge’s decision engaged section 37. By arguing that the trial judge’s decision was procedural in nature rather than amounting to a section 37 disclosure order, the defence was “favour[ing] form over substance and recast[ing] the judge’s order in an erroneous light” (at para. 29).

The defence in this case has already brought an application for a stay of proceedings against the accused due to unreasonable delay (under s.11(b) of the Charter). The defence is probably going to argue section 11(b) from a number of different angles. In my opinion, a large part of the delay would be considered reasonable given the fact that documentary disclosure and discovery involves hundreds of thousands of documents and that the defence itself requires a lot more time to review the discovery and prepare its case. However, the two years of appeals and cross-appeals arising from the informer privilege issue (the trial decision was issued on December 7, 2007 and the Supreme Court finally resolved the appeals on November 19, 2009) will probably be central to the determination of prejudice due to unreasonable delay.

My preliminary research indicates that appellate courts have upheld the right to a mid-trial appeal under section 37 of the Canada Evidence Act (see e.g. R. v. Omar, 2007 ONCA 117; R. v. Pilotte (2002), 156 O.A.C. 1). However, the constitutionality of the provision itself has never been challenged. If the appeal process under section 37 is upheld then it effectively undermines any argument of unreasonable delay since the appeal process going all the way up to the Supreme Court of Canada is reasonably expected to take years. Another important issue in the section 11(b) analysis will be whether the Crown has been purposely stonewalling the disclosure process, as claimed by the defence, and whether the Crown can discharge its burden of justifying the delay (see R. v. Askov, [1990] 2 S.C.R. 1199).


US Law
le.alcoda.org/publications/files/INFORMANTS.pdf (external - login to view)
Last edited by Goober; Dec 28th, 2011 at 01:55 PM..
 
DaSleeper
#295
Thanks Goober......But I would have waited till the his rope got tighter...but don't expect him to admit defeat He'll just go into a different step.....

httpwwwyoutubecomwatchvyV8azLBpiKg



That would be the Cannuck two step...
 
Goober
+1
#296
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

Thanks Goober......But I would have waited till the his rope got tighter...but don't expect him to admit defeat He'll just go into a different step.....

I am sure he is aware of the Laws. Others would not be though.
 
CDNBear
+1
#297
Quote: Originally Posted by DaSleeperView Post

Thanks Goober......But I would have waited till the his rope got tighter...but don't expect him to admit defeat He'll just go into a different step.....

He won't admit anything, he generally doesn't, although he has occasionally.

His claim will be this the civilian version. The US has similar case law, and statute. The AR and UCMJ, have similar statutes (Because they borrowed their statute from the civilian Courts), that apply too, and this is their wording, "Any person".

Quote: Originally Posted by GooberView Post

I am sure he is aware of the Laws.

So you'd think. But we have pages and pages of him saying these laws don't exist.
Last edited by CDNBear; Dec 28th, 2011 at 03:21 PM..
 
petros
#298
If Afghani ever needs to be witness to a case IN Canada they are great shape. Too bad they aren't in Canada or Canadian.

All Road Runner Sound Effects - YouTube

 
DaSleeper
+1
#299
 
Goober
#300
Quote: Originally Posted by petrosView Post

If Afghani ever needs to be witness to a case IN Canada they are great shape. Too bad they aren't in Canada or Canadian.

All Road Runner Sound Effects - YouTube

The testimony that convicted a Canadian Officer came from the Afghan Translator - He was also fast tracked for citizenship.
Considering the rejection rate of Afghan Translators, he was looked after.
 

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