#1Dec 6th, 2011
Government has given him full control of any Federal money, so where does this leave the people on the reserve?
"3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Government has given him full control of any Federal money, so where does this leave the people on the reserve?
+4
#2Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011
Someone somewhere has something to hide. Whatever it is I bet it cost taxpayers a bundle.
#3
Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011
The government has to deal with this mess, not a third party scapegoat.
+1
#4Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss
But it will take a third party to find where exactly the problem(s) are. We know there is huge waste in anything the government touches but I also wonder why the band does not want an outsider examining their spending. It is entirely possible there are so many people skimming here that no money gets to where it belongs and none want to be the scapegoat alone.The government has to deal with this mess, not a third party scapegoat.
#5
Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave
The numbers are already clear in that they didn't receive enough funding for housing. It's a complete insult that instead of beginning construction and financing of proper housing, the government decides to waste money sending an auditor and threw the people into unheated arena.But it will take a third party to find where exactly the problem(s) are. We know there is huge waste in anything the government touches but I also wonder why the band does not want an outsider examining their spending. It is entirely possible there are so many people skimming here that no money gets to where it belongs and none want to be the scapegoat alone.
+2
#6Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss
If they are so underfunded, why do they HAVE an arena????????The numbers are already clear in that they didn't receive enough funding for housing. It's a complete insult that instead of beginning construction and financing of proper housing, the government decides to waste money sending an auditor and threw the people into unheated arena.
With a zamboni.
And at least 22 unproductive people on the band payroll.....that's before you get to anyone that actually does any work.
This stinks.....big time.
And it ain't Harper & Co. emitting the smell.
-1
#7Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy
Simple. If they are so underfunded, why do they HAVE an arena????????
With a zamboni.
And at least 22 unproductive people on the band payroll.....that's before you get to anyone that actually does any work.
This stinks.....big time.
And it ain't Harper & Co. emitting the smell.
2 reasons:
1.) Simply giving out cash without accountability - that's the government's fault.
2.) Regardless of what the cash was used for, the total amount given isn't anywhere near the amount needed to actually fund for housing.
These figures have already been confirmed. You can exaggerate or magnify the First Nations gaffes all you want, but within those two logical constraints, it doesn't matter.
It was the government's responsibility to make sure all expenditures were accountable, and it was also their responsibility to ensure that those expenditures were sufficient enough for the housing needs of first nations.
Now that Red friggin Cross is helping these people living behind plaster board, their answer isn't to actually be accountable, but to blame every other party that could possibly be involved - except for themselves.
It's pretty disgusting.
If there was ever a time for you to express your non-partisanship, Colpy, this is it.
+1
#8Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss
I have absolutely no problem being non-partisan when I disagree with the gov't.Simple.
2 reasons:
1.) Simply giving out cash without accountability - that's the government's fault.
2.) Regardless of what the cash was used for, the total amount given isn't anywhere near the amount needed to actually fund for housing.
These figures have already been confirmed. You can exaggerate or magnify the First Nations gaffes all you want, but within those two logical constraints, it doesn't matter.
It was the government's responsibility to make sure all expenditures were accountable, and it was also their responsibility to ensure that those expenditures were sufficient enough for the housing needs of first nations.
Now that Red friggin Cross is helping these people living behind plaster board, their answer isn't to actually be accountable, but to blame every other party that could possibly be involved - except for themselves.
It's pretty disgusting.
If there was ever a time for you to express your non-partisanship, Colpy, this is it.
I think they are handling this quite correctly.
#9
Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy
Then you applaud lies..I have absolutely no problem being non-partisan when I disagree with the gov't.
I think they are handling this quite correctly.
Conservatives accused of deliberately provoking conflict with Attawapiskat
OTTAWA - The NDP MP whose riding includes the troubled Attawapiskat First Nation says the federal government is provoking a political showdown with the reserve.
Charlie Angus says it's no wonder the band council of the James Bay community turfed Ottawa's financial appointee on Monday, since they believe the decision to name a third-party financial manager is a deliberate attempt to divert attention from their housing crisis.
They blame Aboriginal Affairs Minister John Duncan, he said.
"There's deep frustration in the community with how Mr. Duncan has treated them," Angus told The Canadian Press. "This is a raw power play,"
The third-party manager landed in the Cree community on Monday only to be sent packing by band members acting on behalf of Chief Theresa Spence.
A spokeswoman for Duncan said the appointee — Jacques Marion from the accounting firm BDO Canada LLP — left without a fuss, but still maintains full control of the band's finances.
But Angus says Duncan is compounding the conflict by wildly exaggerating how much help Ottawa is giving the impoverished community, where dozens of families live in substandard housing unfit to face winter.
"It was particularly odious that he stood up in the House and claimed that supplies were being flown in and emergency officials were on the ground," Angus said. "Those supplies come from little kids running bake sales for the Red Cross. The only officials on the ground are provincial."
Duncan issued a statement on Monday explaining how the government has spent $28 million on infrastructure in Attawapiskat since 2006.
He also said Ottawa freed up extra money for housing repairs as soon as the department knew that five families were living in wood-framed tents.
"Our government’s priority is to ensure that residents of Attawapiskat have access to safe, warm and dry shelter," the statement said. "The minister stressed that all parties should put the needs of the people first."
But Angus says the only extra supplies Ottawa has sent in are a couple of boxes of doughnuts that the third party manager brought with him when he tried to set up shop in the community.
"No wonder they got kicked out," Angus said.
"People are frustrated. They see this obsession with the accountant as diverting attention from the fact that, after almost 40 days in crisis, the government has delivered almost nothing to the community and people are still living in precarious situations."
Spence said last week that the families in tents should be able to move into sturdier accommodation within three weeks.
What's clear is that the housing crisis in Attawapiskat has now become a political crisis that has prompted many a chief to question Ottawa's good will.
The chiefs are gathering in the capital today for three days of annual Assembly of First Nations meetings.
National Chief Shawn Atleo is expected to address the Attawapiskat situation in his address this morning.
And Duncan is expected to make another move on First Nations transparency by introducing legislation that would lengthen the terms of office for band council members.
--
+10
#10 Top Rated PostRe: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011
What I don't get MF, is if it's underfunding, then a third party accounting firm, would be able to confirm that.
Kicking them out, does two things. Looks bad on the Res, and gives the Feds claims cred.
Kicking them out, does two things. Looks bad on the Res, and gives the Feds claims cred.
+1
#11Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by jjaycee98
More than likely without federal money.Told to leave as soon as the Government appointed auditor/comptroller hit the ground.
Government has given him full control of any Federal money, so where does this leave the people on the reserve?
+4
#12Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by CDNBear
I have to agree with bear. Throwing out the auditors will just delay things again and temperatures are already hitting 20 below. I would sure as hell hate to see anybody die because everybody stood around pointing fingers rather than attacking the problem.What I don't get MF, is if it's underfunding, then a third party accounting firm, would be able to confirm that.
Kicking them out, does two things. Looks bad on the Res, and gives the Feds claims cred.
#13
Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by #juan
There's been co-auditors there for years...Federal auditors....seemingly approving the expenditures of money.I have to agree with bear. Throwing out the auditors will just delay things again and temperatures are already hitting 20 below. I would sure as hell hate to see anybody die because everybody stood around pointing fingers rather than attacking the problem.
Housing is inadequate,schools are inadequate,infrastructure is inadequate.....enough of the "colonial" handing down the edicts,and the cash.This is just reinforcing the slow genocide.
Time to amend the Indian act, time for Native communities to be allowed to operate like all the municipalities in Canada. time for Native home ownership....time for all parties to accept their responsibilities.
I've seen the same scenario play out during my 70 years...it's time for a change.
#14
Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011
Of course they need a third party to look at this. It is as much about optics as
it is about accountability. If the government simply went in and did the job the
nation would holler foul, they would come down on the government with both
feet. Third parties take the direct confrontation out of a charged issue here and
as such I approve of the move made by the government.
The issue now is not discussing third parties or their findings it is now a question
of whether or not the government is going to follow through and demand needed
accountability. The government must look after two sets of interest here. One
and very important, the government must look after the interests of those people
on the reserve that have not received service while others do extremely well.
The second issue is, will the government protect the financial interests of the
Canadian population in general?
There should be a clear message here for those who would treat the rest of us
with such disrespect. Immediately and I mean immediately, the only money this
reserve should receive is funds for social assistance for the poorest of the poor.
All other money should be cut off until the band complies with the government
audit. Do you think any other institution would be allowed to get away with this?
Not a chance, they would have their funding cut off so fast it would make their
head spin.
I guess we will see if the Harper, is up to his word and his resolve, if he folds
here he does not deserve to be Prime Minister. Time will tell.
it is about accountability. If the government simply went in and did the job the
nation would holler foul, they would come down on the government with both
feet. Third parties take the direct confrontation out of a charged issue here and
as such I approve of the move made by the government.
The issue now is not discussing third parties or their findings it is now a question
of whether or not the government is going to follow through and demand needed
accountability. The government must look after two sets of interest here. One
and very important, the government must look after the interests of those people
on the reserve that have not received service while others do extremely well.
The second issue is, will the government protect the financial interests of the
Canadian population in general?
There should be a clear message here for those who would treat the rest of us
with such disrespect. Immediately and I mean immediately, the only money this
reserve should receive is funds for social assistance for the poorest of the poor.
All other money should be cut off until the band complies with the government
audit. Do you think any other institution would be allowed to get away with this?
Not a chance, they would have their funding cut off so fast it would make their
head spin.
I guess we will see if the Harper, is up to his word and his resolve, if he folds
here he does not deserve to be Prime Minister. Time will tell.
#15
Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpy
Harper is off to DC to sign away more sovereignty so apparently the UN is stepping in.I guess we will see if the Harper, is up to his word and his resolve, if he folds here he does not deserve to be Prime Minister. Time will tell.
+2
#16Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Colpy
If they are so underfunded, why do they HAVE an arena????????
With a zamboni.
And at least 22 unproductive people on the band payroll.....that's before you get to anyone that actually does any work.
This stinks.....big time.
And it ain't Harper & Co. emitting the smell.
I've just seen pic's of this new arena. Nice!!! Here's my question.
Why don't they, inside the arena, turn up the heat, and move the
17 sheds & 5 tents that people are apearantly living in outdoors
into the arena.....at least for the short time, until a better solution
comes along. The fact that this hasn't happened yet stinks all by
itself.
#17
Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 6th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina
Stupid as it may sound, it's probably not up to code for human occupation. Trus spacing and **** like that.I've just seen pic's of this new arena. Nice!!! Here's my question.
Why don't they, inside the arena, turn up the heat, and move the
17 sheds & 5 tents that people are apearantly living in outdoors
into the arena.....at least for the short time, until a better solution
comes along. The fact that this hasn't happened yet stinks all by
itself.
+2
#18Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by petros
The code for roof design has no bearing on whether it's a dwelling or not.Stupid as it may sound, it's probably not up to code for human occupation. Trus spacing and **** like that.
However, all bedrooms have to have an egress window, and there have to be proper washroom facilities.
Used as an emergency shelter, however, these would all be over ruled.
The main point seems to be that a community needs a rink, so that they can all live in squalor and look out at the nice rink they have, while blaming 'the government' for everything.
#19
Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Ron in Regina
But how would they show off their new Zamboni if they melt the ice?I've just seen pic's of this new arena. Nice!!! Here's my question.
Why don't they, inside the arena, turn up the heat, and move the
17 sheds & 5 tents that people are apearantly living in outdoors
into the arena.....at least for the short time, until a better solution
comes along. The fact that this hasn't happened yet stinks all by
itself.
#20
Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 7th, 2011
People are still stuck on the Zamboni red herring?
Look at the funding.
The simple fact is that they did not receive enough funding to put them in the same situation as any other Canadian citizen would under similar circumstances.
Look at the funding.
The simple fact is that they did not receive enough funding to put them in the same situation as any other Canadian citizen would under similar circumstances.
#21
Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by taxslave
Simple solution:Someone somewhere has something to hide. Whatever it is I bet it cost taxpayers a bundle.
Rescind the treaties, give them their land back, and stop giving them money. Heck, they'd probably make much more money from royalties from the resources sold than from any government handout of a portion of that money.
The posts mostly debate how much money to give the band. Again, just give them their land back and forget about the money. The resources from the land will likely be worth more than any money the government can throw at them.
+1
#22Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss
Are you kidding me? A third party is the best way to deal with this. For all parties involved.The government has to deal with this mess, not a third party scapegoat.
-1
#23Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by Retired_Can_Soldier
A third party is already dealing with this.Are you kidding me? A third party is the best way to deal with this. For all parties involved.
They're called: RED CROSS.
+3
#24Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss
Well, then, let them deal with it, and stop your whining about how the gov't is ducking their responsibility.A third party is already dealing with this.
They're called: RED CROSS.
Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss
I didn't receive any funding at all for my house, and not only that, but I have to do all my own maintenance, I can't punch holes in the walls and then piss and moan because the magic fairies don't come by to fix it.People are still stuck on the Zamboni red herring?
Look at the funding.
The simple fact is that they did not receive enough funding to put them in the same situation as any other Canadian citizen would under similar circumstances.
-1
#25Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny
Red cross steps in when there is a state of emergency.Well, then, let them deal with it, and stop your whining about how the gov't is ducking their responsibility.
The reason why there is a state of emergency is because the government hasn't provided enough funding or accounted for that funded properly.
It's already been shown that the "$90 million" was not enough.
The government is ducking their responsibility.
Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny
Guilty until proven innocent?I didn't receive any funding at all for my house, and not only that, but I have to do all my own maintenance, I can't punch holes in the walls and then piss and moan because the magic fairies don't come by to fix it.
+3
#26Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss
The government HAS BEEN 'ducking their responsibility' for years, and not just the current government.Red cross steps in when there is a state of emergency.
The reason why there is a state of emergency is because the government hasn't provided enough funding or accounted for that funded properly.
It's already been shown that the "$90 million" was not enough.
The government is ducking their responsibility.
And don't forget to include the chief and band council in that, they are the front line government in this case.
Mind you, we're not supposed to ask them to be accountable, that's not fair, apparently.
#27
Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by TenPenny
Of course!The government HAS BEEN 'ducking their responsibility' for years, and not just the current government.
The Conservatives are at the helm now though, and they have the majority. If they're feeling the sour grapes then they can step down and someone else in government can take over.
Whoever does it though, the government is legally obligated to work with First Nations as per the Indian Act.
+1
#28Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss
People are still stuck on the Zamboni red herring?
Look at the funding.
The simple fact is that they did not receive enough funding to put them in the same situation as any other Canadian citizen would under similar circumstances.
Analyzing the use of funds is just as important as the amount of funding.
#29
Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by captain morgan
There already is an analysis.Analyzing the use of funds is just as important as the amount of funding.
#30
Re: "3rd Party" booted out of Attawapiskat
Dec 7th, 2011Quote: Originally Posted by mentalfloss
You ought to really study the doc (--)
.. And let's not get hung up on the $90MM figure. That is the amount of funding since 2006. This figure does not include the historical funding prior to that time frame.
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