Harper wants 'accountable' First Nations self-government

Goober

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Harper wants 'accountable' First Nations self-government

So what type of Self Govt is acceptable to Aboriginals/ First Nations and Canadians.

More than Municipal but less than a Province.

A State to State - I do not think that will sail thru easily by Canadians.

Public accountability not only to Band Members but to the Public as well.

Elections that are transparent - There are a host of problems with fraud.

Drugs on Reserves where people are terrified to take action. Hobbema is one clear case of gangs running wild.

Smuggling is rampant on the US - Canada border where one Reserve straddles the border.
We have to many Govt agencies that are under different departments providing services to First Nations. Put them into one. Resources and duplication are wasteful, cause problems and disagreements.

What we have now Does Not Work - And yes both sides are to blame if anyone is looking to blame. I prefer to look for solutions.


Consider this - Many First Nations persons are becoming more radicalized and we as a Country are headed for a messy confrontation if we do nothing.

Your thoughts are?

Prime Minister Stephen Harper says that First Nations communities must develop "strong, accountable" systems of self-government in the long run, as Ottawa grapples with a housing crisis in the remote First Nations community of Attawapiskat.

Local leaders in the Northern Ontario town of 1,800 declared a state of emergency about a month ago, as winter moved in and some residents were living in unheated tents, while many others suffered in crowded, substandard housing.

The crisis has propelled the issue of living conditions in First Nations communities onto the national agenda, and will likely be a hot topic during scheduled talks between the Crown and aboriginal leaders on Jan. 24.

Harper's long-term goal is to see "strong, accountable systems of self-government for aboriginal communities," he said Friday during a press conference in Burlington, Ont.

"I think we all realize we're not going to get there in one giant leap, but I continue to look forward and continue to enjoy working with Chief Atleo and other communities to move us in that direction," he told reporters.

Harper's comments came a day after he met with Atleo, who called the upcoming meeting with aboriginal leaders an opportunity.

"We can perhaps consider this moment and the idea of us gathering as a moment to reset the relationship between First Nations and the federal Crown," Atleo told the prime minister.
 

Cannuck

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A State to State - I do not think that will sail thru easily by Canadians.

I have no problem with State to State. The problem is that the term "Nation" gets thrown around willy nilly and Canadians really don't consider aboriginals "nations" in the true sense of the word. I think municipal level government would be acceptable to most people with the exception of the radical special interest folks.
 

CDNBear

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So what type of Self Govt is acceptable to Aboriginals/ First Nations and Canadians.
I like the Haudenosaunee system of governance, that the US based theirs on. Constitution and all.

A State to State - I do not think that will sail thru easily by Canadians.
State to State.

Public accountability not only to Band Members but to the Public as well.
Accountable to the band only. So long as the governance has a strong system of checks and balances.

Elections that are transparent - There are a host of problems with fraud.
Not just fraud.

What we have now Does Not Work.
Agreed.

Consider this - Many First Nations persons are becoming more radicalized and we as a Country are headed for a messy confrontation if we do nothing.
It isn't inaction that is the sole cause of that radicalization, cannuck, juan and dumpster are part of the largest contributor to that radicalization.

Your thoughts are?
We aren't ready.
 

Goober

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I like the Haudenosaunee system of governance, that the US based theirs on. Constitution and all.

State to State.

Accountable to the band only. So long as the governance has a strong system of checks and balances.

Not just fraud.

Agreed.

It isn't inaction that is the sole cause of that radicalization, cannuck, juan and dumpster are part of the largest contributor to that radicalization.

We aren't ready.

Are you saying that the National Org - Prov as well are just as big a part of the problem as the Feds are.

State to State - would that be one state or I am not sure how many differing bands we have.

Does the US system not have problems as well

If you accept public monies it is only reasonable that accountability be public.
 

IdRatherBeSkiing

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I am ok with self government if it comes with self consequences. Right now if there is a problem, it is blamed on the Canadian government and more money is requested or whatever. If you completely govern yourself (as a state or a sub-province abiding by overall laws of the nation) but manage your own budgets, spending, etc. you are responsible for your own success or failure.
 
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CDNBear

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Are you saying that the National Org - Prov as well are just as big a part of the problem as the Feds are.
Not that I mentioned the provinces. Many services were downloaded on the Provinces.

State to State - would that be one state or I am not sure how many differing bands we have.
Lots. But Bands means different Nations separated in different locals. State to State as in established First Nations as in each Nation, not Band.

Does the US system not have problems as well
Doesn't Canada' as well?

If you accept public monies it is only reasonable that accountability be public.
I'd otherwise agree, but if it can be determined that a legitimate form of sustainable governance has been established, the monies allotted for First Nations, should be considered what they were always meant to be, contractual payments. Not allocations for some special interest group.

I am ok with self government if it comes with self consequences. Right now if there is a problem, it is blamed on the Canadian government and more money is requested or whatever. If you completely govern yourself (as a state or a sub-province abiding by overall laws of the nation) but manage your own budgets, spending, etc. you are responsible for your own success of failure.
Exactly!
 

Goober

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Not that I mentioned the provinces. Many services were downloaded on the Provinces.

Lots. But Bands means different Nations separated in different locals. State to State as in established First Nations as in each Nation, not Band.

Doesn't Canada' as well?

I'd otherwise agree, but if it can be determined that a legitimate form of sustainable governance has been established, the monies allotted for First Nations, should be considered what they were always meant to be, contractual payments. Not allocations for some special interest group.

Exactly!

Having agreements with donens of States would be rife with problems would it not? Should there be a national parliament for these States?
 

Goober

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They're called treaties.

We already have the AFN. But they aren't accepted by all Nations as it is.

Again, we aren't ready.

Correct me if I am wrong - Treaty obligations have evolved with many services etc that should be provided. Original treaties did not cover what we would call reasonable back then.

While you state we are not ready, are not some ready for this now? BC is trying this in the last few years.

EDIT
Do agreements like this benefit First Nations?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...e-over-controversial-pipeline/article2258325/

The announcement comes a day after Enbridge said that native opposition to the project was not unanimous and that the company was talking to bands that were interested in taking a stake in the project. Enbridge has agreed to provide up to 10 per cent equity in the project to eligible aboriginal communities and has also agreed to provide financing to bands to allow them to take advantage of the offer
 
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CDNBear

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Correct me if I am wrong - Treaty obligations have evolved with many services etc that should be provided. Original treaties did not cover what we would call reasonable back then.
You are not wrong.

The problems begin with the bureaucracy. First the Feds take a cut, then the province, then the region, then the municipality.

And that doesn't include Councils.

While you state we are not ready, are not some ready for this now?
Not at the level of State to State. Any reserve that wanted big cash payouts, merely had to incorporate. While some Nations jumped at the chance, many saw it as ceding their sovereignty.

Do agreements like this benefit First Nations?

Native band signs deal with Enbridge over controversial pipeline - The Globe and Mail

The announcement comes a day after Enbridge said that native opposition to the project was not unanimous and that the company was talking to bands that were interested in taking a stake in the project. Enbridge has agreed to provide up to 10 per cent equity in the project to eligible aboriginal communities and has also agreed to provide financing to bands to allow them to take advantage of the offer
Of course they do.

So long as the leadership doesn't waste the money.
 

Goober

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You are not wrong.

The problems begin with the bureaucracy. First the Feds take a cut, then the province, then the region, then the municipality.

And that doesn't include Councils.

Not at the level of State to State. Any reserve that wanted big cash payouts, merely had to incorporate. While some Nations jumped at the chance, many saw it as ceding their sovereignty.

Of course they do.

So long as the leadership doesn't waste the money.

OK - Lots for me to learn here. i was not aware of that point and it is important, and not only in the legal sense.