BC RCMP Contract Up For 20 Year Renewal

[dumpthemonarchy]

I say turf'em. Say by-by. The RCMP is out of touch with modern BC. They are a rural police force, they started as the NWMP in the 19th century to deal with the settling of the West. In their HQ in south Vancouver, they have a big buffalo head-it looks pretty cool though, a symbol of their origins and corporate culture. So I say let the prairies have them, Ontario and Quebec have bid them adieu.

Greater Vancouver needs a regional police force, the money saved from the Mounties could be spent on that instead.

The Mounties ought to deal with fed govt with its many sprawling departments and agencies. They could also focus on computer crime, they are not exactly known to be world beaters at stopping it.

Public Safety Minister says he's awaiting B.C. response on RCMP contract







By PETER O'NEIL and Jonathan Fowlie, Vancouver Sun October 4, 2011 6:06 PM







Canada’s Public Safety Minister Vic Toews. Toews has set a deadline for talks between B.C. and his government over RCMP funding for the province.

Photograph by: CHRIS WATTIE, REUTERS




OTTAWA and VICTORIA --- Public Safety Minister Vic Toews, described by the opposition as the "bad cop" in the "good-cop, bad-cop" negotiating stance with Victoria over RCMP contract policing, threw the ball back in B.C.'s court during a testy exchange Tuesday.

He said Ottawa is prepared to strike a new 20-year deal with the province but is awaiting suggestions promised by B.C. Solicitor General Shirley Bond, who has complained about the difficulty in controlling Mountie costs borne by B.C. municipalities.

"She indicated on September 9 that she would be forwarding those suggestions. I haven't heard from her," Toews said during question period.

New Democratic Party MP Randall Garrison (Esquimalt-Juan de Fuca) noted that Canadian Heritage Minister James Moore, B.C.'s senior minister in cabinet, took a much softer line than Toews when speaking to the Union of B.C. Municipalities on Friday.
Moore (Port Moody-Westwood-Port Coquitlam) said he's confident a compromise will be reached.

"Will the Conservatives stop trying to play good-cop, bad-cop and sit down and negotiate seriously with British Columbia?" Garrison asked Tuesday.

Late Tuesday, B.C. Solicitor-General Shirley Bond issued a statement, saying "positive" discussions had taken place about the potential for reopening negotiations.

"I am advised the Deputy Solicitor General spoke with Minister Toews’ deputy today and had some positive dialogue about the potential for further talks. Minister Toews’ deputy asked for some additional material from us, which we will be forwarding as soon as possible," Bond said in the statement.

"The remaining nine Provinces and Territories met last week to confirm and refine our position," she added.

"Together we remain committed to resolving our differences and establishing a mutually beneficial agreement. We still believe that retaining the RCMP in BC creates significant benefits and we need to reach an agreement that is acceptable to all of us."

The provincial government and municipal mayors complain that Ottawa has threatened to end RCMP policing in 2014 if a 20-year contract extension isn't signed by the end of November.

Victoria and the municipalities want provisions in the contract giving them some control over RCMP decisions that impact on the amount B.C. taxpayers pay for those services.

But Moore said last week that the federal government shares Mountie costs and has a natural concern about rising costs.

The RCMP contract in B.C. cost $992 million in 2009-2010, with municipalities covering $493 million of that total, the province $315 million, and Ottawa just $184 million.






​

 

[bill barilko]

I'm not disagreeing but won't we end up with much of the same dead wood in the new force?

Look @ the dense bums in the Transit Police here in the Lower Mainland-every has been alcoholic/lard arsed dummie within a thousand miles works there now.

Plus crooks will be able to run rings around the newly formed disorganisation

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Yeah turf em. BC is just brimming with money.

How much is that HST reversal going to cost again?

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I'm not disagreeing but won't we end up with much of the same dead wood in the new force?

Look @ the dense bums in the Transit Police here in the Lower Mainland-every has been alcoholic/lard arsed dummie within a thousand miles works there now.

Plus crooks will be able to run rings around the newly formed disorganisation

Sure, we'd have many of the same cops, but the idea is that there would be local accountability. With the force run from Ottawa, they can do what they will here. I read the new RCMP station in Surrey went from $300 million to over $1 billion. Excessive.
Peace Arch News - COLUMN: Surrey has vested interest in RCMP contract squabble

I can't say much about the Transit police they are kind of beyond my radar these days. But it seems like an easy gig, checking tickets all day long.

 

[damngrumpy]

It was sixty years ago that the Province turfed the Provincial Police because?
They were both corrupt and out of touch with the expectations of the Province.
The Problem with the RCMP is they are out of control not out of step. They
are arrogant and they don't answer to any Provincial Government body or to
a public body to keep tabs on them.
When an organization is allowed this much power they eventually go astray
and that is what has happened here in this case. We need civilian oversight
to keep them in check. The end result will be a new negotiated agreement
and it is really all about money not being out of touch or anything else. By the
way, there will be a settlement and the RCMP will stay. If not we have to find
something like six thousand officers trained and ready to go plus a totally new
infrastructure to accommodate the new force and that is not going to happen.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

It was sixty years ago that the Province turfed the Provincial Police because?
They were both corrupt and out of touch with the expectations of the Province.
The Problem with the RCMP is they are out of control not out of step. They
are arrogant and they don't answer to any Provincial Government body or to
a public body to keep tabs on them.
When an organization is allowed this much power they eventually go astray
and that is what has happened here in this case. We need civilian oversight
to keep them in check. The end result will be a new negotiated agreement
and it is really all about money not being out of touch or anything else. By the
way, there will be a settlement and the RCMP will stay. If not we have to find
something like six thousand officers trained and ready to go plus a totally new
infrastructure to accommodate the new force and that is not going to happen.

Yeah it actually could happen. Many them would stay in Metro Vancouver and join that regional force. And In Victoria and Prince George or Prince Rupert. Over half could have jobs right now where they work. They could also continue to police rural areas, that is what they are best at. There might be less of a problem in the transition than many think.

Nowadays civilian oversight of police is more accepted, a BC police force would have a tougher time resisting that.

 

[In Between Man]

Keep the RCMP! This isn't the time to create a new police force! $$$

 

[VanIsle]

Keep the RCMP! This isn't the time to create a new police force! $$$

You are right Alley. I cannot understand why people whip out an answer like they have just solved the world's problems. Damn Grumpy (who has named himself so well) feels ridding BC of the RCMP is the answer. Talk about being out of pace with the times, the RCMP has a buffalo head at every police office, on every badge they wear etc. etc.
For a Prov. Force, you will need new training facilities. The Justice Institute would not be able to do it all. Prov. Police are unionized. The RCMP are not allowed to form a union. What ever makes anyone think a Prov. Force would cost less? What makes you think you will even get different people? I think I've said all this on here somewhere before. The Province would have to hire experienced officers who are not going to work for less than they are being paid right now. I'm sure if someone wants to take the time to do so - there will be a chart somewhere showing the payscale for the various police forces. Up to a certain level of pop. the Federal Gov't pays a percentage of each members wage. With a prov. force, each city/town would pay 100% and remember - you get what you pay for. In small towns, you are going to get the "locals" only working for the force and what a fine mess that will be.

It was sixty years ago that the Province turfed the Provincial Police because?
They were both corrupt and out of touch with the expectations of the Province.
The Problem with the RCMP is they are out of control not out of step. They
are arrogant and they don't answer to any Provincial Government body or to
a public body to keep tabs on them.
When an organization is allowed this much power they eventually go astray
and that is what has happened here in this case. We need civilian oversight
to keep them in check. The end result will be a new negotiated agreement
and it is really all about money not being out of touch or anything else. By the
way, there will be a settlement and the RCMP will stay. If not we have to find
something like six thousand officers trained and ready to go plus a totally new
infrastructure to accommodate the new force and that is not going to happen.

Ya right! They put a civilian as the head of the RCMP in Ottawa. You can see for yourself how well that turned out and he did such a poor job he was almost asked to "leave". If you don't come up through the ranks, you don't know how an organization is run. BC Ferries did much the same by hiring David Hahn. I see he too is leaving in a couple of months. Things should start to straighten out soon and I wouldn't bet money on the RCMP leaving BC.

 

[#juan]

I agree with most of what you say. I just think we should be able to ask for a
little more discipline. The four RCMP officers who tazered the Polish guy
to death at the airport is one case that pops to mind. Those four officers
should have been able to overpower one man without resorting to the
tazer. I've lived in many small towns where one or two constables were
the entire police force and they handled things very well.

 

[AyameTaylor]

I didn't know they removed the RCMP in ONTARIO... when did this happen? Considering there is an RCMP station done not far from where i live.

Does anyone have a link or source to get this out of touch girl in the know? I don't want to make any comments on the subject until i am more informed.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

I agree with most of what you say. I just think we should be able to ask for a
little more discipline. The four RCMP officers who tazered the Polish guy
to death at the airport is one case that pops to mind. Those four officers
should have been able to overpower one man without resorting to the
tazer. I've lived in many small towns where one or two constables were
the entire police force and they handled things very well.

And nothing would have been known of this terrible occurance had their not been an inquiry. The RCMP was willing to cover it up, and the cops in the inqurity continued to lie. They were a joke.

I heard on the radio the RCMP is filled with problems and the people they recruit, who are mostly urban recruits, don't want to live in rural areas for years. And other problems. Google prompts accept "rcmp dysfunctional mess" for a search. Scary. But that's what the media says. The RCMP and monarchy are just hanging around too long in places they don't belong anymore.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

I agree with most of what you say. I just think we should be able to ask for a
little more discipline. The four RCMP officers who tazered the Polish guy
to death at the airport is one case that pops to mind. Those four officers
should have been able to overpower one man without resorting to the
tazer. I've lived in many small towns where one or two constables were
the entire police force and they handled things very well.

You know what I find disheartening about the Polish Guy in the Vancoiuver Airport? The fact that Canada Customs left him there to languish to the point that he went ballistic and the RCMP had to be called in the first place. Can anyone explain to me how hard it is to find a polish interpreter in the Vancouver International Airport? Can anyone explain to me why Canada customs was not held at least partially responsible for the death of this man?

And nothing would have been known of this terrible occurance had their not been an inquiry. The RCMP was willing to cover it up, and the cops in the inqurity continued to lie. They were a joke.

Get your facts straight the video was on the news the day it happened.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Get your facts straight the video was on the news the day it happened.

Until there was an inquiry, nothing happened. The RCMP didn't care, they were forced to care. The officers will only face perjury charges, not assault or manslaughter. Nice eh.

RCMP members who killed Robert Dziekanski face Perjury Charges | Christopher di Armani.com

 

[#juan]

You know what I find disheartening about the Polish Guy in the Vancoiuver Airport? The fact that Canada Customs left him there to languish to the point that he went ballistic and the RCMP had to be called in the first place. Can anyone explain to me how hard it is to find a polish interpreter in the Vancouver International Airport? Can anyone explain to me why Canada customs was not held at least partially responsible for the death of this man?



Get your facts straight the video was on the news the day it happened.

My problem is that there seems to be a growing problem with our "legendary" Mounties. They would rather
shoot or taser someone rather than get their clothes dirty. Those four, big, strapping, officers should have
been able to get control of the situation. All they had to do was show a friendly face and find a Polish
interpreter. Never mind spreading responsibilities around. The death of this man was brought about by the incompetence of the RCMP response team.

 

[VanIsle]

Until there was an inquiry, nothing happened. The RCMP didn't care, they were forced to care. The officers will only face perjury charges, not assault or manslaughter. Nice eh.

RCMP members who killed Robert Dziekanski face Perjury Charges | Christopher di Armani.com

You are so biased and so wrong. If you have never been a part of such a large organization then - you should keep your deeply seated bias to yourself. The Dziekanski case was handled very poorly but - the one in charge of those who arrived at the airport is the one man to blame here. In any "military" type of organization, the others must pay attention to the senior person. He was wrong from the very moment her arrived on the scene and how he managed to be a police officer for so long eludes me. To say the RCMP did not care is ludicrous.

 

[TenPenny]

It was always my understanding that Tazers were to be used as an alternative to lethal force. In other words, in a situation where you would use lethal force, you use the Tazer instead.

Which therefore means the RCMP in the Vancouver airport were of the mindset that they were willing to shoot him dead, as using the Tazer was to be an alternative to that.

Strange outlook, if your response to a man with a stapler is to shoot him. Training seems to have been ineffective.

 

[VanIsle]

My problem is that there seems to be a growing problem with our "legendary" Mounties. They would rather
shoot or taser someone rather than get their clothes dirty. Those four, big, strapping, officers should have
been able to get control of the situation. All they had to do was show a friendly face and find a Polish
interpreter. Never mind spreading responsibilities around. The death of this man was brought about by the incompetence of the RCMP response team.

Juan - this man arrived at the airport and it was known from the onset that he did not speak English. The airport (as someone has already pointed out) did nothing to help this man and I don't understand why they have not been held responsible also. All they had to do was find someone who even partly understood what he was saying and I believe this man would be alive today. The airport personnel were the first to fail this man. After that it was poorly handled by ONE police officer who should never have been allowed the use of a Taser. It's wrong to say they would rather shoot anyone. Shooting someone is quite different than tasering someone even if you or I and everyone believe that the taser does not have a place in any police force.
You are right regarding showing a friendly face. That is what should have happened. They should have approached him quietly to find out what was troubling him. He should not have encountered any of the difficulties he did from the very moment he arrived in this country. All Canadians should be above that and speaking on a personal level - I am embarrassed for both the airport personnel who took no responsibility at all when they were the "first on the scene" and the first to call the police rather than ask if anyone in the whole airport could speak polish. It's not like they could not figure out what language he spoke. They knew where he came from. It could have been solved without the police even being called. However, once the police were called, this poor man should have known that help instead of death arrived. While one officer was responsible for giving the orders, the others knew what they were doing and out of common decency, they should have just resigned. They have aided in a man's death and they have embarrassed the Force. To then lie about it is despicable.
No - they are not like the members used to be. Today's criminal element is not either. They are much more dangerous. Mr. Dzesanski (sp) was not a criminal and they should have surveyed the situation and come to that realization before they literally came in with the taser gun blazing.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

My problem is that there seems to be a growing problem with our "legendary" Mounties. They would rather
shoot or taser someone rather than get their clothes dirty. Those four, big, strapping, officers should have
been able to get control of the situation. All they had to do was show a friendly face and find a Polish
interpreter. Never mind spreading responsibilities around. The death of this man was brought about by the incompetence of the RCMP response team.

I'm not arguing that use of a taser was deemed wrong and certainly the RCMP could have exercised diplomacy, but this guy should never have been left to this point and everyone including the media is so focused on the personal whipping boy (known as the RCMP) they have completely overlooked the obvious. This guys death was a direct result of Canada Customs failing and had they exercised a bit of common sense and attempted to help this man he would still be alive.

According to official sources, Dziekański required language support to complete initial customs formalities. After he completed initial immigration processing, his whereabouts between 4:00 p.m. and about 10:45 p.m. remain unclear, though at various points he was seen around the baggage carrousels. Dziekański's mother, Zofia Cisowski, had told him to wait for her at the baggage claim area but it was a secured area where she was not allowed to enter.] At 10:45 p.m., when he attempted to leave the Customs hall, he was directed again to secondary immigration as his visa had not yet been processed. Dziekański's immigration procedures were completed at about 12:15 a.m. on October 14

After 30 minutes in an immigration waiting area, he was taken to the international arrivals reception area. Cisowski had been making enquiries of airport staff since the early afternoon. Airport staff told her Dziekański was not at the airport and she had returned to Kamloops at about 10 p.m., believing her son had missed his flight.

When Dziekański left the Customs hall, he became visibly agitated. Bystanders and airport security guards were unable to communicate with him because he did not speak English.[

He used chairs to prop open the one-way doors between a Customs clearing area and a public lounge and at one point threw a computer and a small table to the floor before the police arrived.


Any customs agent who was connected to this should have lost their bloody job.

 

[VanIsle]

It was always my understanding that Tazers were to be used as an alternative to lethal force. In other words, in a situation where you would use lethal force, you use the Tazer instead.

Which therefore means the RCMP in the Vancouver airport were of the mindset that they were willing to shoot him dead, as using the Tazer was to be an alternative to that.

Strange outlook, if your response to a man with a stapler is to shoot him. Training seems to have been ineffective.

I don't think training comes into this. The person who either used or at least ordered the use of the taser was a seasoned officer. I think this was amongst the first realization of the danger of using the taser along with how dangerous the taser is. The RCMP was guilty of taking the word of the company who designed the taser. I was afraid of the taser. My son had to learn how to use one. He is not a police officer by the way. The group he was with had the choice of letting the taser be used on them to see how it felt. I felt panicky. I made him promise me that he would not allow the use of it on him. He kept that promise and he has never been in a situation where he has had to even consider using the taser.
To show you not all police officers cannot think rationally - when my hubby heard of the situation at YVR, the first words out of his mouth were: I would have gone in, asked for two chairs and two glasses of water. I would have offered one to Mr. Dz (I cannot spell his name properly) and gestured to the other chair for him to sit down beside me.
He believes he would have easily defused the situation. I think he's right.

I'm not arguing that use of a taser was deemed wrong and certainly the RCMP could have exercised diplomacy, but this guy should never have been left to this point and everyone including the media is so focused on the personal whipping boy (known as the RCMP) they have completely overlooked the obvious. This guys death was a direct result of Canada Customs failing and had they exercised a bit of common sense and attempted to help this man he would still be alive.

I'm not arguing that use of a taser was deemed wrong and certainly the RCMP could have exercised diplomacy, but this guy should never have been left to this point and everyone including the media is so focused on the personal whipping boy (known as the RCMP) they have completely overlooked the obvious. This guys death was a direct result of Canada Customs failing and had they exercised a bit of common sense and attempted to help this man he would still be alive.

According to official sources, Dziekański required language support to complete initial customs formalities. After he completed initial immigration processing, his whereabouts between 4:00 p.m. and about 10:45 p.m. remain unclear, though at various points he was seen around the baggage carrousels. Dziekański's mother, Zofia Cisowski, had told him to wait for her at the baggage claim area but it was a secured area where she was not allowed to enter.] At 10:45 p.m., when he attempted to leave the Customs hall, he was directed again to secondary immigration as his visa had not yet been processed. Dziekański's immigration procedures were completed at about 12:15 a.m. on October 14

After 30 minutes in an immigration waiting area, he was taken to the international arrivals reception area. Cisowski had been making enquiries of airport staff since the early afternoon. Airport staff told her Dziekański was not at the airport and she had returned to Kamloops at about 10 p.m., believing her son had missed his flight.

When Dziekański left the Customs hall, he became visibly agitated. Bystanders and airport security guards were unable to communicate with him because he did not speak English.[

He used chairs to prop open the one-way doors between a Customs clearing area and a public lounge and at one point threw a computer and a small table to the floor before the police arrived.


Any customs agent who was connected to this should have lost their bloody job.

You have said all that I said in the beginning and yet no one else seems to want to hear us. People just want to blame the RCMP. I'm not saying that once they arrived on the scene the RCMP are not to blame because they are. The airport personnel as I've stated over and over are the first to fail this man and I believe with all my heart that Robert Dziekanski would be alive today had the airport itself handled things responsibly.

 

[Nationhood]

Does anyone have a link or source to get this out of touch girl in the know? I don't want to make any comments on the subject until i am more informed.

The RCMP happens to be in every province, but they're less so in Ontario because Ontario has its own police force which makes the RCMP less necessary.
"The RCMP is responsible for an unusually large breadth of duties. Under their federal mandate, the RCMP provides policing throughout Canada, including Ontario and Quebec (albeit under smaller scales there). Federal operations include: enforcing federal laws including commercial crime, counterfeiting, drug trafficking, border integrity, organized crime and other related matters; providing counter-terrorism and domestic security; providing protection services for the Monarch, Governor General, Prime Minister, their families and residences, and other ministers of the Crown, visiting dignitaries, and diplomatic missions; and participating in various international policing efforts"
BC and many other provinces do not have their own provincial police force, so the RCMP ends up doing the majority of duties in the provinces. Oh, and the RCMP and the OPP occasionally work together to get things solved.