Should receive an adult sentence -

Goober

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Should receive an adult sentence - And never walk free of prison -

Dismembered teen's death 'horrifying' - Crime - Canoe.ca

SUDBURY, Ont. - Rose Thrones hopes the young man convicted of murdering and dismembering her 15-year-old daughter will have to spend the rest of his life behind bars.

“What I’d like to see is for him to have the same privileges as Dohlie has — none,” Thrones said outside the courthouse on Thursday.

Whitney “Dohlie” Van Der Wouden was murdered and her body was dismembered and burned in the woods on April 27, 2009, in Sudbury, about 400 km northwest of Toronto.

A jury found the youth, who had just turned 17 at the time of Dohlie’s death, guilty of second-degree murder and causing an indignity to a human body. His co-accused, 30-year-old Kristopher Lavallee, is in custody awaiting a hearing on his charges.

Judge Robbie Gordon has heard a day and a half of argument and evidence at the sentencing hearing of the now 19-year-old man. Gordon must decide if the man should be sentenced as a youth or as an adult. If sentenced as a youth, the maximum penalty is four years in custody and three years of supervision in the community. An adult sentence would be a life sentence, with no chance of parole for seven years.

“These are very, very difficult decisions for you to make,” assistant Crown attorney Philip Zylberberg told the judge on Thursday.

In asking the judge to consider an adult sentence, he went over the facts of the brutal murder.

“They cut her up. They tried to burn the body,” Zylberberg said.

Then they buried what remained, he said.

“We can categorize this murder and the subsequent dealing with Whitney’s remains as brutal… and perhaps go so far as to say it is horrifying,” Zylberberg said.

Defense lawyer William Beach asked the judge to sentence the young man to the maximum youth sentence, saying he has made great gains over the last two years in custody, even earning his high school diploma. Those gains could be lost if he is exposed to anti-social prisoners in the adult system, Beach said.

“I think in this case, we have more than sufficient evidence of remorse,” Beach said.

Dohlie’s family is hoping the judge sides with the Crown.

“As mean as it might sound, I would like to see (a) life (sentence), because I’m always afraid it might happen again,” said Paul Van Der Wouden, Dohlie’s father. “It doesn’t take long to go back to where you were before. Just a bottle of beer can start you back on the same track again. It depends on who he makes friends with later on if he gets out in the public.”
 

DurkaDurka

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Even is he is sentenced as an adult, the parole eligibility is much lower than what an actual adult would serve, but I totally agree he deserves it. This isn't a case of a youthful discretion, he murdered this woman and tried to cover it up. he can look forward to the next 15 years in jail.
 

Goober

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Even is he is sentenced as an adult, the parole eligibility is much lower than what an actual adult would serve, but I totally agree he deserves it. This isn't a case of a youthful discretion, he murdered this woman and tried to cover it up. he can look forward to the next 15 years in jail.

He can still receive the max of 25 years though?
 

DurkaDurka

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He can still receive the max of 25 years though?

I don't think so, whereas an adult has to serve the whole 25, youths are are given more leniency. That's what I have heard in the past but I could be totally wrong though.

This is from the youth justice site of the government of Canada:

"Under the YOA, if a 16 or 17-year-old is charged with murder, attempted murder, manslaughter or aggravated sexual assault, it is presumed that he or she will be transferred to the adult court and, if convicted, will receive an adult sentence. The presumption does not mean that there will be an automatic adult sentence. It means that the young person must persuade the court that he or she should remain in the youth court."

Youth Justice: The Youth Criminal Justice Act: Summary and Background
 

Ariadne

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I'm completely in favour of rehabilitation over punishment, but ... looking at the big picture ... He was barely 17 and spending time with someone that is now 30 years old. It's likely that the 30 year old was the dominant personality. Unless the 17, now 19, year old has developed skills to resist being a follower, I would tend to agree with the victim's father that he's only a beer away from re-offending. Murder, dismemberment, burning and burying is not exactly a run of the mill murder. If the 17 year old was not completely sickened by all of that, I think he needs an adult sentence.
 

WLDB

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He's just an exciteable boy!

Love Warren Zevon.


I really dislike these cases where there is a debate about whether or not to sentence a person as an adult. They should draw the line somewhere on when adulthood begins. Don't leave any ambiguity. If you want to charge a minor as an adult, fine, but give them the same rights and privileges that come with being one.
 

Ariadne

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Love Warren Zevon.


I really dislike these cases where there is a debate about whether or not to sentence a person as an adult. They should draw the line somewhere on when adulthood begins. Don't leave any ambiguity. If you want to charge a minor as an adult, fine, but give them the same rights and privileges that come with being one.

Maybe that should somehow be tied to the age of puberty rather than a physical age. Puberty can happen as early as 9 or as late 17, and that hormonal change makes a big difference in a whole lot of other things like value systems, thought processes, emotional responses and maturity ... and more. Someone that has just gone through puberty is a lot different than someone that went through puberty 6-8 years earlier, but they may both be 17 years old.
 

damngrumpy

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Mar 16, 2005
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Now I can see a youth charge in a case of growing weed or a drug charge, but this is entirely
different. In the above case many troubled young people and some older do get their education
and straighten them self out and a term in prison would be counter productive. Look at what the
two evil bast***s did. This is not excusable for a lighter sentence in any way shape or form.
How did they get a second degree? This was following a script almost and there needs to be no
second thought. How much remorse did they show the poor kid they killed and hacked to pieces
to cover up their crime? No they should do the max and I mean the max for this one.
 

Ariadne

Council Member
Aug 7, 2006
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Exactly ... if this guy, at the age of 17, was comfortable with everything that happened, didn't turn himself in, didn't get sick, wasn't traumatized by the experience, then he will probably do just fine in an adult prison with a full adult sentence.
 

annabattler

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Jun 3, 2005
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Exactly ... if this guy, at the age of 17, was comfortable with everything that happened, didn't turn himself in, didn't get sick, wasn't traumatized by the experience, then he will probably do just fine in an adult prison with a full adult sentence.

What was the background of the 17 year old? Was he emotionally immature,did he need a father figure, wasn he manipulated by the older man,did drugs play a role in the killing? If he is immature,easily manipulated and dosn't have much of a sense of self, then he'll be victimized in prison...and the lessons he learns there will be very destructive....and he'll still get out after a period of time,to walk among us...a powder keg.

I'd opt for the youth designation,lots of therapy and life skills classes.
 

Nuggler

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Feb 27, 2006
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:glasses7: Hey, boys'll be boys, eh :dontknow:












can't hang him, but we could lock him up till hell freezes over. Good idea. Think of life in solitary. Looks good.
 

SLM

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Mar 5, 2011
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This seems to me to be a clear case of when a juvenille should be tried as an adult.

I'm all for rehabilitation, especially for youth as there will probably never be a better time to turn things around as when you are young, before things go too far. But clearly things have already gone way too far in this case.

Prison may not make this guy a better human being but I do think the world will be that little bit much safer for the next 15 or 25 years, whatever the sentence.
 

DurkaDurka

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Mar 15, 2006
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And that is why the Cons have the support of the majority to amend the Act.

The cons can try as they may but i find it highly unlikely that they'll be able to push through legislation that gives youths mirror sentences of adults when in adult court and if they did the supreme court might have a differing opinion. Personally, I believe in cases like this there needs to be a sentence greater then five years but I don't think it should mirror what an adult would face.
 

CDNBear

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Sep 24, 2006
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The cons can try as they may but i find it highly unlikely that they'll be able to push through legislation that gives youths mirror sentences of adults when in adult court and if they did the supreme court might have a differing opinion.
Why would the SCC have differing say? There is no supremacy of the Charter involved.

Personally, I believe in cases like this there needs to be a sentence greater then five years but I don't think it should mirror what an adult would face.
I agree.
 

taxslave

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I have been thinking on this for several days now and we all know that the YOA is seriously flawed. I'm still in favor of capital punishment for crimes like this regardless of age when there is no doubt about guilt.
I think rather than the age of the accused being a consideration in wether he/she goes to adult court that certain crimes automatically become subject to adult court and sentences, Murder for sure, armed robbery and some sex crimes as well.
 

Ariadne

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Aug 7, 2006
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Just announced - sentenced as an adult to life with eligibility for parole in five years.

Five years? He'll be 24 years old if his parole application is successful and most likely dangerous. I hope this case is carefully monitored.

When we were 16 we were well aware of what we could get away with before 18 ... today's youth are no different. The problem with certain crimes ending up in adult court is that it will be like the states where 12 year olds are considered adults.