Clever Clogs
Posts: 519 
February 19th, 2008, 01:56 AM
I finally got around to watching Sicko by Michael Moore and it's a great picture. He's an antidote to all the lies and propaganda fomented by the business elite in America who don't want the population in general to realize how badly they're getting screwed. And for those who dispute this claim a few facts I'd like to point out.
Health Care: The emphasis is on profit, with a great effort going into providing the least amount of care while charging as much as the market can bare. The result is that Americans pay more per capita than any other nation and have lower life expectancy than most western nations due to poor preventative care and lack of adeequate treatment even when they are insured. Former insurance executives have testified that their decisions to deny care based on financial considerations have killed many people. All in the name of making money, which the health care insurers do in record amounts. Is it right that CEOs of major insurers become billionaires while the ill die? Health care bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy and homelessness in America today.
Corporate fraud: Enron was a blatant example but there are many more. Enron manipulated the energy supply in California and other places around the turn of the millenium creating artificial shortages which could be exploited to great profit as well as rolling brownouts and blackouts, disrupting the economy and life in general. They also lied about the companies bottom line greatly increasing stock value and executive wealth, this at a time when Ken Lay was the national energy advisor to Bush and Cheney. Cheney still refuses to release policy papers from those times. Investors lost billions. Same with those who bought stocks in many other companies that were involved in the same practice like Worldcom, Johnson & Johnson and Toiko. Halliburton managed to avoid most of the fallout from this scandal paying only $7.5 million in an investor lawsuit, another example of how above the law some Americans have become.
Now we're dealing with the Subprime scandal where many Americans were talked into mortgages they couldn't afford all so the loans could be bundled and sold on the markets as commodities with expectation that as many as 20% would default. Brokers and investors could make huge profits if they moved the paper fast enough, but thousands of US citizens have been made homeless across the US and the economy depressed all so a few on Wall Street could get a little more wealthy.
Then we get to the Iraq War which has to be one of the most immoral wars in history when you consider the false justification, the close involvement of the President and VP with some of the largest contractors of the war, the MILLIONS of Iraqi casualties, orphans and refugees, the thousands of US casualties and the HUNDREDS of thousands of US veterans who gave their service and are now living on the streets of America. That's just scratching the surface of the moral degeneracy of the US elite. Paris Hilton may be entertaining but she's the poster child of something very dark taking place in the highest levels of the most powerful nation on Earth at the present.
Oh yah, I forgot Delay, Cunningham, Foley, Allen, Craig, Libby, and the other corrupt or just downright creepy ****s who represent the elite rightwing in America today.
There are those who criticize Moore for his views, but the sad fact is he's doesn't go nearly far enough. From what I know from my own ancestors and study of history I believe that a situation like this can't go on forever. Societies are self correcting when the needs of the people are not being met and the powerful exploit the vulnerable to satisfy their greed. I believe it was Jefferson who said that the tree of liberty needs to be watered periodically with the blood of patriots and tryrants.
I think it's pretty obvious who the tyrants and the patriots are and Michael Moore is one of the good guys. Way to go Mike, great movie.
I finally got around to watching Sicko by Michael Moore and it's a great picture. He's an antidote to all the lies and propaganda fomented by the business elite in America who don't want the population in general to realize how badly they're getting screwed. And for those who dispute this claim a few facts I'd like to point out.
Health Care: The emphasis is on profit, with a great effort going into providing the least amount of care while charging as much as the market can bare. The result is that Americans pay more per capita than any other nation and have lower life expectancy than most western nations due to poor preventative care and lack of adeequate treatment even when they are insured. Former insurance executives have testified that their decisions to deny care based on financial considerations have killed many people. All in the name of making money, which the health care insurers do in record amounts. Is it right that CEOs of major insurers become billionaires while the ill die? Health care bills are the leading cause of bankruptcy and homelessness in America today.
Corporate fraud: Enron was a blatant example but there are many more. Enron manipulated the energy supply in California and other places around the turn of the millenium creating artificial shortages which could be exploited to great profit as well as rolling brownouts and blackouts, disrupting the economy and life in general. They also lied about the companies bottom line greatly increasing stock value and executive wealth, this at a time when Ken Lay was the national energy advisor to Bush and Cheney. Cheney still refuses to release policy papers from those times. Investors lost billions. Same with those who bought stocks in many other companies that were involved in the same practice like Worldcom, Johnson & Johnson and Toiko. Halliburton managed to avoid most of the fallout from this scandal paying only $7.5 million in an investor lawsuit, another example of how above the law some Americans have become.
Now we're dealing with the Subprime scandal where many Americans were talked into mortgages they couldn't afford all so the loans could be bundled and sold on the markets as commodities with expectation that as many as 20% would default. Brokers and investors could make huge profits if they moved the paper fast enough, but thousands of US citizens have been made homeless across the US and the economy depressed all so a few on Wall Street could get a little more wealthy.
Then we get to the Iraq War which has to be one of the most immoral wars in history when you consider the false justification, the close involvement of the President and VP with some of the largest contractors of the war, the MILLIONS of Iraqi casualties, orphans and refugees, the thousands of US casualties and the HUNDREDS of thousands of US veterans who gave their service and are now living on the streets of America. That's just scratching the surface of the moral degeneracy of the US elite. Paris Hilton may be entertaining but she's the poster child of something very dark taking place in the highest levels of the most powerful nation on Earth at the present.
Oh yah, I forgot Delay, Cunningham, Foley, Allen, Craig, Libby, and the other corrupt or just downright creepy ****s who represent the elite rightwing in America today.
There are those who criticize Moore for his views, but the sad fact is he's doesn't go nearly far enough. From what I know from my own ancestors and study of history I believe that a situation like this can't go on forever. Societies are self correcting when the needs of the people are not being met and the powerful exploit the vulnerable to satisfy their greed. I believe it was Jefferson who said that the tree of liberty needs to be watered periodically with the blood of patriots and tryrants.
I think it's pretty obvious who the tyrants and the patriots are and Michael Moore is one of the good guys. Way to go Mike, great movie.
Council Member
Posts: 1,785 
Location: BC
Location: BC
February 19th, 2008, 02:38 AM
The missing scenes from sicko: worth watching.
They were omitted because Micheal Moore felt the US public wouldn't believe it.
The missing scenes from sicko: worth watching.
They were omitted because Micheal Moore felt the US public wouldn't believe it.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 519
February 19th, 2008, 03:26 AM
Some more fun facts about US health care:
!8,000 uninsured Americans died from lack of treatment last year.
According to Professor Elizabeth Warren of Harvard, half of bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills. The surprising thing she found was 75% of those had health insurance when they became ill but poor coverage meant they still had to pay most of the cost of treatment. Her research shows that only the very wealthy are secure when it comes to health care costs. Also in the competitive US system much of the money goes to administration and making the CEOs wealthy, not to actual treatment.
Much is made of waiting times here in Canada but many Americans face much greater risks than we do due to the poorly designed and highly exploitive US system. 18,000 is a totally unacceptable number of people to lose to treatable illness in a nation as rich as America, especially when you consider how much wealth is in the hands of the pharmacutical and health insurance industry. The needs of the ill are no longer seen as important in the US healthcare system, only the financial needs of the system itself. It's truly insane that a field that is supposed to bring respite to peoples misery is being used to create so much, all in the name of profit.
Those who believe that bringing for-profit healthcare to Canada will solve our problems need to take a closer look at what's going on south of the border. All for-profit healthcare does is create wealth for a few and less health and well being for the many. Preventative care and timely treatment go out the window as insurers fight to make sure the minimum amount of care is given. Also homeless people have a 40% higher rate of mortality and many people who feel secure with their coverage in the US are actually very vulnerable to costs they will not be able to afford if they become ill. The US healthcare industry probably kills more people indirectly than it does directly through stress related illness and decreased living standards.
Tommy Douglas was a true visionary and those who wish to undo his greatest achievement in Canada are motivated by blind greed, not interest in the common good.
Some more fun facts about US health care:
!8,000 uninsured Americans died from lack of treatment last year.
According to Professor Elizabeth Warren of Harvard, half of bankruptcies in the US are due to medical bills. The surprising thing she found was 75% of those had health insurance when they became ill but poor coverage meant they still had to pay most of the cost of treatment. Her research shows that only the very wealthy are secure when it comes to health care costs. Also in the competitive US system much of the money goes to administration and making the CEOs wealthy, not to actual treatment.
Much is made of waiting times here in Canada but many Americans face much greater risks than we do due to the poorly designed and highly exploitive US system. 18,000 is a totally unacceptable number of people to lose to treatable illness in a nation as rich as America, especially when you consider how much wealth is in the hands of the pharmacutical and health insurance industry. The needs of the ill are no longer seen as important in the US healthcare system, only the financial needs of the system itself. It's truly insane that a field that is supposed to bring respite to peoples misery is being used to create so much, all in the name of profit.
Those who believe that bringing for-profit healthcare to Canada will solve our problems need to take a closer look at what's going on south of the border. All for-profit healthcare does is create wealth for a few and less health and well being for the many. Preventative care and timely treatment go out the window as insurers fight to make sure the minimum amount of care is given. Also homeless people have a 40% higher rate of mortality and many people who feel secure with their coverage in the US are actually very vulnerable to costs they will not be able to afford if they become ill. The US healthcare industry probably kills more people indirectly than it does directly through stress related illness and decreased living standards.
Tommy Douglas was a true visionary and those who wish to undo his greatest achievement in Canada are motivated by blind greed, not interest in the common good.
Electoral Member
Posts: 75
February 19th, 2008, 06:08 AM
When I lived in South Korea, I never had any problems using the all for profit healthcare system. The difference, I believe, is that the U.S. charges very high rates, whereas in South Korea, the rates were extremely low. There, I could go into any general practitioner's office, pay the 3 or 4 dollar fee and get medical attention immediately. Prescription drugs were extremely low priced, so much that many americans were shocked at the prices. When I first arrived in South Korea I got a bladder infection. I didn't have much money and figured the specialist visit was going to cost me alot of money, but my boss told me I could use her credit card and I could pay her back on payday. The specialist saw me immediatley on arrival; and prescribed me antibiotics. The total cost in canadian dollars, about $19.00!!!. The antibiotics were a little less. I could pay that no problem. However; as a canadian, I was more shocked at the immediate treatment I received; the kindness of the doctors, etc. South Korea is a very densly populated country, but I always got immediate attention in a doctor's office. The doctors fee was always around 3-4 dollars Canadian (doubled if not insured); and that price included any examinations, etc. So in my opinion, it really boils down to how much profit a doctor wants to make.
When I lived in South Korea, I never had any problems using the all for profit healthcare system. The difference, I believe, is that the U.S. charges very high rates, whereas in South Korea, the rates were extremely low. There, I could go into any general practitioner's office, pay the 3 or 4 dollar fee and get medical attention immediately. Prescription drugs were extremely low priced, so much that many americans were shocked at the prices. When I first arrived in South Korea I got a bladder infection. I didn't have much money and figured the specialist visit was going to cost me alot of money, but my boss told me I could use her credit card and I could pay her back on payday. The specialist saw me immediatley on arrival; and prescribed me antibiotics. The total cost in canadian dollars, about $19.00!!!. The antibiotics were a little less. I could pay that no problem. However; as a canadian, I was more shocked at the immediate treatment I received; the kindness of the doctors, etc. South Korea is a very densly populated country, but I always got immediate attention in a doctor's office. The doctors fee was always around 3-4 dollars Canadian (doubled if not insured); and that price included any examinations, etc. So in my opinion, it really boils down to how much profit a doctor wants to make.
Electoral Member
Posts: 75
February 19th, 2008, 06:26 AM
BTW, now that I am over 40 I am constantly told I should have regular check-ups. The problem is where do I go? I have been on a waiting list for almost ten years here in Saint John, N.B. We have one walk-in clinic, and it is open only after hours. I am currently fighting another bladder infection on my own because frankly, I don't know where to go to get treated. ER would turn me away for sure. The last time I went to a clinic, I paid $75.00 fee. I am not alone.
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/304134
BTW, now that I am over 40 I am constantly told I should have regular check-ups. The problem is where do I go? I have been on a waiting list for almost ten years here in Saint John, N.B. We have one walk-in clinic, and it is open only after hours. I am currently fighting another bladder infection on my own because frankly, I don't know where to go to get treated. ER would turn me away for sure. The last time I went to a clinic, I paid $75.00 fee. I am not alone.
http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/304134
Clever Clogs
Posts: 519
February 19th, 2008, 10:22 AM
To be fair Canada has its own share of sociopaths at a high level, people like Conrad Black who had no problem taking money that didn't belong to him so he could live a billionaires lifestyle on a millionaires salary.
Our own Premier Gordon Campbell seems to feel no real social responsibility. Whether it's whipping along the roads of Hawaii bombed out of his skull or selling off BCs assets to private concerns who show even less of a social conscience.
The for-profit Texas firm he has running our healthcare system in this province started off with years of poor performance by the governments own loose standards. And the railway he promised to never sell is now in the hands of an American corporation that has cut back on maintainance and safe operating proceedures so deeply it can barely keep its trains on the track. Employees have been killed and important watersheds polluted, something the Harper government waited till the last possible moment to fine them for.
Campbell also quietly changed the law so a large US corporation like Kinder Morgan could buy our energy distribution system in BC despite its record of pipeline accidents in the US. It wasn't long after it took over that oil was shooting 100 feet into the air in residential Burnaby. People there are still coping with decreased property values due to contamination.
Then there's support for the fish farms that are threatening the already threatened wild salmon runs.
Also according to some the Campbell government has made backroom deals with private for-profit healthcare providers to not enforce the Canada Health Act thus opening the door to US style healthcare here in Canada. All in all we've got our own bastards too.
The BC healthcare system is being allowed to crumble to justify its replacement with the corrupt US system. Support for the elderly has been drastically cut back forcing many to rely on emergency and acute care beds in hospital instead of adequate homecare and residential living causing chronic bed shortages. Its own managers of regional health districts claim the government underfunds the system on purpose. We've also seen more than a few couples who've been together for a half century or more torn apart at their last moments of their lives for financial consideration here, so I don't think Campbell will have any problem screwing the rest of us when it comes to access to adequate healthcare.
If the US record is any indication, even having health insurance here won't guarentee neccessary care in the future as the insurance companies try any and all means to control payouts with their eyes firmly fixed on the bottom line and not on the medical outcome of treatment.
To be fair Canada has its own share of sociopaths at a high level, people like Conrad Black who had no problem taking money that didn't belong to him so he could live a billionaires lifestyle on a millionaires salary.
Our own Premier Gordon Campbell seems to feel no real social responsibility. Whether it's whipping along the roads of Hawaii bombed out of his skull or selling off BCs assets to private concerns who show even less of a social conscience.
The for-profit Texas firm he has running our healthcare system in this province started off with years of poor performance by the governments own loose standards. And the railway he promised to never sell is now in the hands of an American corporation that has cut back on maintainance and safe operating proceedures so deeply it can barely keep its trains on the track. Employees have been killed and important watersheds polluted, something the Harper government waited till the last possible moment to fine them for.
Campbell also quietly changed the law so a large US corporation like Kinder Morgan could buy our energy distribution system in BC despite its record of pipeline accidents in the US. It wasn't long after it took over that oil was shooting 100 feet into the air in residential Burnaby. People there are still coping with decreased property values due to contamination.
Then there's support for the fish farms that are threatening the already threatened wild salmon runs.
Also according to some the Campbell government has made backroom deals with private for-profit healthcare providers to not enforce the Canada Health Act thus opening the door to US style healthcare here in Canada. All in all we've got our own bastards too.
The BC healthcare system is being allowed to crumble to justify its replacement with the corrupt US system. Support for the elderly has been drastically cut back forcing many to rely on emergency and acute care beds in hospital instead of adequate homecare and residential living causing chronic bed shortages. Its own managers of regional health districts claim the government underfunds the system on purpose. We've also seen more than a few couples who've been together for a half century or more torn apart at their last moments of their lives for financial consideration here, so I don't think Campbell will have any problem screwing the rest of us when it comes to access to adequate healthcare.
If the US record is any indication, even having health insurance here won't guarentee neccessary care in the future as the insurance companies try any and all means to control payouts with their eyes firmly fixed on the bottom line and not on the medical outcome of treatment.
Mass'Debator
Posts: 4,282
Location: Atlantic Canada
Location: Atlantic Canada
February 19th, 2008, 11:49 AM
Do you not have a family doctor? It shouldn't take that much to check through the phone book to look for a family doctor. That helps greatly compared to having to rely on a walk-in all the time for things. When I moved here in the HRM, there were various doctors accepting new patients to the community. I called one up, got an appointment the next day and that was that.
Now when I need to check something or need a Px, at the most, I need to wait until the following day, but usually I can still get in the same day. I call up, make my apointment, arrive at the time I'm supposed to and I usually walk right on in.... if not, then I wait a few mins for the previous patient to finish up.
My GF who just moved from Australia to here needed to get some antibiotics, but had no family doctor and just basic travel insurance, etc. She went to the Walk-in, but was closed when she got there and wouldn't open back up until a few hours afterwards. So she walked to the ER and waited.
And waited and waited.
I got off work and headed over to meet her, and we waited an additional 3 hours for her to be seen. Overall she waited for 7 hours for what only took 5 mins for the doctor to write out the Px..... pretty sick huh?
But she didn't complain all that much, because she said the wait times here are pretty much the same, if not better then back in Australia.
But either way, I'm now trying to see if she can get assigned to my family doctor so she doesn't have to deal with that again.
I would strongly suggest you look into finding a family doctor. I am aware of the statistics that most Canadians, esspecially in Atlantic Canada, do not have a family doctor..... be that because there isn't enough around or that they just never bothered to, I am not exactly sure. But I would attempt to fight tooth and nail to get a family doctor, as that will save you a lot of time in your life.
Quoting faithlessforeve
Wait.... you have a 10 year waiting list for a basic check-up? What the hell?
BTW, now that I am over 40 I am constantly told I should have regular check-ups. The problem is where do I go? I have been on a waiting list for almost ten years here in Saint John, N.B. We have one walk-in clinic, and it is open only after hours. I am currently fighting another bladder infection on my own because frankly, I don't know where to go to get treated. ER would turn me away for sure. The last time I went to a clinic, I paid $75.00 fee. I am not alone.
Do you not have a family doctor? It shouldn't take that much to check through the phone book to look for a family doctor. That helps greatly compared to having to rely on a walk-in all the time for things. When I moved here in the HRM, there were various doctors accepting new patients to the community. I called one up, got an appointment the next day and that was that.
Now when I need to check something or need a Px, at the most, I need to wait until the following day, but usually I can still get in the same day. I call up, make my apointment, arrive at the time I'm supposed to and I usually walk right on in.... if not, then I wait a few mins for the previous patient to finish up.
My GF who just moved from Australia to here needed to get some antibiotics, but had no family doctor and just basic travel insurance, etc. She went to the Walk-in, but was closed when she got there and wouldn't open back up until a few hours afterwards. So she walked to the ER and waited.
And waited and waited.
I got off work and headed over to meet her, and we waited an additional 3 hours for her to be seen. Overall she waited for 7 hours for what only took 5 mins for the doctor to write out the Px..... pretty sick huh?
But she didn't complain all that much, because she said the wait times here are pretty much the same, if not better then back in Australia.
But either way, I'm now trying to see if she can get assigned to my family doctor so she doesn't have to deal with that again.
I would strongly suggest you look into finding a family doctor. I am aware of the statistics that most Canadians, esspecially in Atlantic Canada, do not have a family doctor..... be that because there isn't enough around or that they just never bothered to, I am not exactly sure. But I would attempt to fight tooth and nail to get a family doctor, as that will save you a lot of time in your life.
Electoral Member
Posts: 75
February 19th, 2008, 12:36 PM
I saw Sicko about 6 months ago when I was living in South Korea. Apparently France has one of the better health care systems.
Quoting Praxius
I read in a local paper, that there is a very high percentage of Saint John residents without a family doctor. I think many doctors have either flown the coop, or have specialized.
Wait.... you have a 10 year waiting list for a basic check-up? What the hell?
Do you not have a family doctor? It shouldn't take that much to check through the phone book to look for a family doctor. That helps greatly compared to having to rely on a walk-in all the time for things. When I moved here in the HRM, there were various doctors accepting new patients to the community. I called one up, got an appointment the next day and that was that.
I would strongly suggest you look into finding a family doctor. I am aware of the statistics that most Canadians, esspecially in Atlantic Canada, do not have a family doctor..... be that because there isn't enough around or that they just never bothered to, I am not exactly sure. But I would attempt to fight tooth and nail to get a family doctor, as that will save you a lot of time in your life.
Do you not have a family doctor? It shouldn't take that much to check through the phone book to look for a family doctor. That helps greatly compared to having to rely on a walk-in all the time for things. When I moved here in the HRM, there were various doctors accepting new patients to the community. I called one up, got an appointment the next day and that was that.
I would strongly suggest you look into finding a family doctor. I am aware of the statistics that most Canadians, esspecially in Atlantic Canada, do not have a family doctor..... be that because there isn't enough around or that they just never bothered to, I am not exactly sure. But I would attempt to fight tooth and nail to get a family doctor, as that will save you a lot of time in your life.
I saw Sicko about 6 months ago when I was living in South Korea. Apparently France has one of the better health care systems.
Clever Clogs
Posts: 519
February 19th, 2008, 05:22 PM
One of the DVD extras is an interview with Dr. Marcia Angell a Senior Harvard lecturer and former editor of the New England Journal of medicine. She points out what a scam Big Pharma is. While most of the research on new treatments is still done with public funds at Universities and the NIH, the pharmacutical companies get all the rewards through patents. So basically the public is paying through the nose for new drugs they already funded the development of, sounds very unfair to me.
She also points out that about 75% of the "new" medications are minor reformulations of older drugs that allow the pharmacutical industry to extend patents and charge more money. According to Dr. Angell, 80% of the drugs introduced between 2000-2005 showed very little if any benefit over pre-existing medications.
When close to 50 million Americans have no insurance and even those who do have questionable coverage there's something wrong when massive corporations are making huge profits from healthcare dollars. Illness shouldn't be treated as a commodity, just as the need for housing shouldn't have been in the subprime crisis, it's social suicide in the not to distant term.
The extreme right in America loves to scream about the dangers of SOCIALISM (eek!), but I think it's becoming undeniable that unregulated capitalism can be just as harmful to a society. They found that out with Carnegie, Vanderbuilt, Rockefeller and the other robber barons more than 100 years ago and we're seeing a repeat now. When Vanderbuilt was confronted with popular outrage over the deaths caused on his unsafe railways his response was, "the public be damned". I think we're seeing the same attitude by the health insurance companies and Big Pharma today and like the resulting anti-trust laws that were created to curb the behaviour of the robber barons, the US needs healthcare reform to serve the needs of the people, not some faceless corporations that probably aren't even headquartered in the US to avoid paying taxes. According to the constitution, all people (men) are created equal and all Americans should have equal access to basic neccessities like food, housing and healthcare.
I hope Obama gets elected in November and follows through on his pledges, America really is ready for a change.
One of the DVD extras is an interview with Dr. Marcia Angell a Senior Harvard lecturer and former editor of the New England Journal of medicine. She points out what a scam Big Pharma is. While most of the research on new treatments is still done with public funds at Universities and the NIH, the pharmacutical companies get all the rewards through patents. So basically the public is paying through the nose for new drugs they already funded the development of, sounds very unfair to me.
She also points out that about 75% of the "new" medications are minor reformulations of older drugs that allow the pharmacutical industry to extend patents and charge more money. According to Dr. Angell, 80% of the drugs introduced between 2000-2005 showed very little if any benefit over pre-existing medications.
When close to 50 million Americans have no insurance and even those who do have questionable coverage there's something wrong when massive corporations are making huge profits from healthcare dollars. Illness shouldn't be treated as a commodity, just as the need for housing shouldn't have been in the subprime crisis, it's social suicide in the not to distant term.
The extreme right in America loves to scream about the dangers of SOCIALISM (eek!), but I think it's becoming undeniable that unregulated capitalism can be just as harmful to a society. They found that out with Carnegie, Vanderbuilt, Rockefeller and the other robber barons more than 100 years ago and we're seeing a repeat now. When Vanderbuilt was confronted with popular outrage over the deaths caused on his unsafe railways his response was, "the public be damned". I think we're seeing the same attitude by the health insurance companies and Big Pharma today and like the resulting anti-trust laws that were created to curb the behaviour of the robber barons, the US needs healthcare reform to serve the needs of the people, not some faceless corporations that probably aren't even headquartered in the US to avoid paying taxes. According to the constitution, all people (men) are created equal and all Americans should have equal access to basic neccessities like food, housing and healthcare.
I hope Obama gets elected in November and follows through on his pledges, America really is ready for a change.
House Member
Posts: 2,853
Location: California
Location: California
February 20th, 2008, 12:10 AM
Quoting Cobalt_Kid
Good doctors will take that into account. When I went for some sleeping pills, my doc prescribed me an older medicine. It was about 25$ for a month's suply instead of over 100$ for something new like Ambien or Lunesta and it worked just fine. When I had to take antibiotics it cost about 10$, again because it was an older med that works just fine.
One of the DVD extras is an interview with Dr. Marcia Angell a Senior Harvard lecturer and former editor of the New England Journal of medicine. She points out what a scam Big Pharma is. While most of the research on new treatments is still done with public funds at Universities and the NIH, the pharmacutical companies get all the rewards through patents. So basically the public is paying through the nose for new drugs they already funded the development of, sounds very unfair to me.
She also points out that about 75% of the "new" medications are minor reformulations of older drugs that allow the pharmacutical industry to extend patents and charge more money. According to Dr. Angell, 80% of the drugs introduced between 2000-2005 showed very little if any benefit over pre-existing medications.
.
She also points out that about 75% of the "new" medications are minor reformulations of older drugs that allow the pharmacutical industry to extend patents and charge more money. According to Dr. Angell, 80% of the drugs introduced between 2000-2005 showed very little if any benefit over pre-existing medications.
.
Electoral Member
Posts: 75
February 20th, 2008, 03:48 AM
Quoting tracy
It really depends on where a person lives, I guess. I was prescribed a 2 mos. supply of sleeping pills in South Korea, and the total cost was around $6.00 Canadian. And boys, did they knock you out.
Good doctors will take that into account. When I went for some sleeping pills, my doc prescribed me an older medicine. It was about 25$ for a month's suply instead of over 100$ for something new like Ambien or Lunesta and it worked just fine. When I had to take antibiotics it cost about 10$, again because it was an older med that works just fine.
